Kudos to the PTI politician who said things that should be in the vernacular of all mainstream political parties of all Muslim countries. Secularist are non-muslims and as such are a minority in Muslim countries. They suffer from some serious inferiority complex and have considerable foreign backing to actually dream of stripping Muslim societies of their Islamic values & beliefs.
Also I believe it would be great and is a crying need to
actually declare secularism and liberalism as separate religions OR sects of Christianity and their adherents should be given minority religious status in Muslim lands. If the state does it, many ignorant muslims who do NOT know better, would learn to view secularism and liberalism as it is deserved to be viewed i.e another religion. You do NOT see muslims talking about "
christian islam" or "
hindu Islam" like some idiots talk about "
liberal Islam" and that is because people know these terms are oxymoron and incompatible with each other.
we liberals never had a shield to begin with neither do we need any. kiddo its your kind that is feeling threatened by us because you know a change is coming and it is inevitable in this age of information.as our economy grows more and more people are going to rip this curtain of ignorance.
Liberals have the whole western media giants, corporations, NGOs and most importantly western goverments with them. If you do NOT know, one of the stated foreign policy objectives of subsequent US administrations is to "
promote liberal democracy and human rights" to the rest of the world. You people are also in power in most Muslim countries since WWI and dominate the media, industry and education system and the result is there for all to see -
utter chaos.
Btw most western philosophers and colonialist have been dreaming and longing for the disappearance of Islam like you did in your last sentence. They tried their best in Algeria for over a century, kemalist tried to root out islam from turkey for a century, commies in USSR banned muslims from Practicing Islam and burned down mosques but what happened. French were kicked out from algeria and still muslims are a majority there, kemalist & liberals got their *** whipped and are now languishing in jail while religion is seeing a comeback to C.asian states ruled by secular despots.
Enemies of Islam throughout the ages dreamt the destruction of Islam starting with the mushriks of mecca. But Islam always triumphed because Allah (swt) out of His divine mercy promised the safeguard & protection of Islam :
“They intend to put out the Light of Allaah (i.e. the religion of Islam, this Qur’aan, and Prophet Muhammad) with their mouths. But Allaah will bring His Light to perfection even though the disbelievers hate (it). [al-Saff :8-9]
and never will Allah give the disbelievers over the believers a way [to overcome them].[Quran 4:141]
“Allah has promised those among you who believe, and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the earth”
[an-Noor 24:55].
Bro there are a lot of things in the constitution that are wrong and discriminatory imo and they should be corrected or abolished and than we've this extremist mindset everywhere be it judiciary, gov, educational institutions or even military the only way to get rid of this extremism and intolerance is to move towards secular liberalism and no (before anyone says) liberalism doesn't mean insulting/hurting someone's religion or religious personalities. My question is simple why not we all just keep religion to ourselves (that's what Mr Jinnah wanted) lets just live and let others live? why can't we become like Germany, France and UK?
Going by you &
@Hell hound post and history It seems you guys have absolutely 0 idea about both secular liberalism & most importantly Islam. You have absolutely 0 idea about what it means to be a Muslim and submitting to the will of Allah(swt) and being proud to be a slave of Allah (swt). If you did, you would not have uttered the non-sense you just did.
They demean and reject the constitution and ideology and basis of foundation of pakistan, that is ample misconduct to expell one from a country, such sentiments amount to treason and if these leeches gain power or ample followers in pakistan, with foriegn funding they can launch a genocide campaign like lenin and stalin did( the founding fathers of secularism)..
Germany, uk and france didnt become powers by sucking up to the muslim empires when we muslims were the superpower , they stuck to their ideologies and when the time came they pushed us over, we wont leave them behind until we syick to our own ideologies and and implement the true islamic principles of righteousness, honesty and brutal justice in this country, we have made islam a money generating industry here in pakistan, bring back real islam, the sharia law, the caliphate aka presidentiak system and see where we stand after 10 yrs, and only those idiots glorify seculariam who have little knowledge of history, no philosophical prowess over the advent of atheism, democracy,secualrism, liberalism etc and a minute iq, athiests and their ideologies have been the largest genocide committers in entrie histroy, chock up on lenin and stalin, chock up on what secular britian, france etc did to africans, indians etc, what secular eurpeans did to native redindians, what america was and still doing to blacks, pakistan is a much much tolerant society than these europeans and americans, read the actual stats for comparison and dont incclude these ttp vermin that were impoed on us by hindu and secular powers, secularism only negates god it does nothing to curb humans instincts to rape, loot plunder steal and murder, only religion and brutal justice does that...
And peope please stop labelling these vermins as liberals, liberalism is a phenomina that advocates negation of caste system, economic uplift of humans, equal oppurtunites to all and equal justice for all regardless of power or post, liberalism never actually stood for naked women, drunk loafers, rampant drugs, godlessness, feminism and disintegration of the nuclear family and traditional household, capitalists have hijacked liberalism to generate money through filth and what better way to justify it than labeling it as liberalism, muslims and islam were the greatest liberals ever to have walked the earth, label these vermins as secular fascists cause thats what they actually are..
Brother I commend you zeal, enthusiasm and pride for Islam and largely agree with you. But I as a muslim and a fellow brother in faith must disagree on your mistaken understanding of what liberalism is. NO, muslims and Islam were never liberals and rightfully so. Is islam - the religion ordained by the Creator of everything that exists - lacking something (nauzubillah) that you have to express it in terms of other ideologies and world views? NO absolutely NOT.
What is liberalism
Europeans after they lost faith in Christianity essentially became materialistic deist or atheist. The society as a whole became irreligious and and the idea developed that all religions are false and have flaws like Christianity. The christian doctrine just like all other non-islamic doctrines obviously has flaws since it has been corrupted by men over time and NO longer the message bought by prophet Jesus (pbuh). Without religion The ideologies they developed to replace Christianity was secularism (separation of church & state) and Liberalism (individual autonomy, equality under the secular law etc) and
these ideologies are based on some underlying principles and ideas westerners considered absolute truths:
- Religion (
west's trauma with Christianity) is inherently dogmatic and repressive and as such has to be controlled and made irrelevant. Its should be a "personal matter".
-Religion is man-made anyway and that rather than worry about the afterlife its more important to worry about the material life and enjoy it to its fullest. Religion and obeying God simply makes things difficult and bothersome.
-Human beings can understand
everything thing with logic and reason (definition of logic/reason is something they themselves never agreed on) and since people may not agree on anything they came up with the concept of rule of the majority
under the aegis of a secular constitution so that mob rule can not harm interest of businesses and elites.
-Science can solve all problems of mankind and scientism increasingly became the new religion. Darwinism later came and gave a big boost & justification to the materialistic philosophy of secularism.
- Society is made up of atomized individuals (individualism) that have no obligation or responsibility to society or family and these atomized individuals are equal under the secular law and only accountable to the state. Every individual is a "master" of their own-selves to pursue materialistic goals as long as it does NOT
physically harm another individual . Putting objective morality OR religion would just make the whole structure collapse. This is the gist of what people call liberalism and this idea was developed by western philosophers like John Locke, Voltaire, Hume, Kant, Hobbes. You can call these people the prophets of liberalism and people like
@Zibago &
@Hell hound believed in these people's message without even knowing their names - dogmatic blind faith.
- Then they needed to assign some rights to these atomized individuals and since religion for them just does not make any sense - they based those rights on individualism, equality [all white men are equal (initially slaves & women were excluded)] In in their shallow intellect they conflated equality with justice and fairness. The current UN declaration of human rights is a copy paste of this western understanding of human rights - devoid of religion, objective morality and solely based on
arbitrary reason & logic.
Make NO mistake every single tenet of these western ideology of liberalism is anti-theical to islam and Islamic world view. Islam is a religion of justice and fairness and the notion that humans can solve anything and everything with reason & logic is a alien concep. Allah (swt) did NOT give humans that ability and that is why prophet's & messengers were sent throughout the ages.
In islam reason & logic is guided by divine revelation and muslims are NOT allowed to question divine revelation to suit their materialistic desires and abstract notions. Also islam does NOT grantee equality & equal rights to everyone but it gurantees due rights to everyone. People inherently differ in their gender, religion, languages and Islam takes that difference into consideration.
Another thing you have to realize is that the idea of absolute individual freedom (liberty) goes against Islam. As Muslims were are NOT free. We have submitted ourselves to the will of Allah(swt) and we have,
unlike the non-muslims, achknowledged the fact that we human are nothing but slaves of Allah (swt) and we exist to worship Him (swt) alone without any partners. Everything happens by the will of Allah (swt) and everything single aspect of this universe and all that exist is under His (swt) control. This basic fundemental Islamic belief strikes at the very heart of everything liberalism stands for. This religion of secularism is at its core materialistic and is obsessed with control over all aspects of life. For them this life is the be all & end all of human existence and as such they feel a paranoia when they realize that they can't control all aspects of the material world. Anything (Islam) that hampers that materialistic endevour of humans is something they consider to be oppressive and restricting "free will".
That is why you see them going ga ga over Islamic dress codes, dietary laws, family laws and Sharia's general emphasis on State regulating public sphere so that humans have an conducive environment to islamically develop them & their societies.
Btw Sharia does guarantee non-muslims unparalleled (compared to today's western liberal world) communal & religious freedom. Islamic dietary, family, financial laws do NOT apply to them. Also islam guarantees freedom in one's private sphere and restricts invasion into one's private life unlike what you find western liberal goverments and secular "muslim" goverments doing now a days. Secular liberals can keep their kufr beliefs to themselves even in a state ruled under islamic principles. They just have to closet themselves to their own communal and friends circle.
Btw Brother
@Awan68 I am a sinful muslim just like you and do not claim to be a alem (scholar) or an expert in philosophy but I do have the basic understanding of my religion and the beliefs of many groups that are currently waging a war on Islam and one such group is liberal secularist. This post is meant just to correct some mistakes of a fellow brother in faith. I hope my post does NOT give out any rude vibe. I hope you take it in a positive light. May Allah (swt) guide us both to the path that pleases Him (swt) most.
And not just OURS,, i have seen liberals and secular from different parts of the world being worst than the the group we have conveniently labeled "extremists"!!
