Secularists should 'mend ways or leave country', says PTI lawmaker

[Awan68]

Kudos to the PTI politician who said things that should be in the vernacular of all mainstream political parties of all Muslim countries. Secularist are non-muslims and as such are a minority in Muslim countries. They suffer from some serious inferiority complex and have considerable foreign backing to actually dream of stripping Muslim societies of their Islamic values & beliefs.

Also I believe it would be great and is a crying need to actually declare secularism and liberalism as separate religions OR sects of Christianity and their adherents should be given minority religious status in Muslim lands. If the state does it, many ignorant muslims who do NOT know better, would learn to view secularism and liberalism as it is deserved to be viewed i.e another religion. You do NOT see muslims talking about "christian islam" or "hindu Islam" like some idiots talk about "liberal Islam" and that is because people know these terms are oxymoron and incompatible with each other.



Liberals have the whole western media giants, corporations, NGOs and most importantly western goverments with them. If you do NOT know, one of the stated foreign policy objectives of subsequent US administrations is to "promote liberal democracy and human rights" to the rest of the world. You people are also in power in most Muslim countries since WWI and dominate the media, industry and education system and the result is there for all to see - utter chaos.

Btw most western philosophers and colonialist have been dreaming and longing for the disappearance of Islam like you did in your last sentence. They tried their best in Algeria for over a century, kemalist tried to root out islam from turkey for a century, commies in USSR banned muslims from Practicing Islam and burned down mosques but what happened. French were kicked out from algeria and still muslims are a majority there, kemalist & liberals got their *** whipped and are now languishing in jail while religion is seeing a comeback to C.asian states ruled by secular despots.


Enemies of Islam throughout the ages dreamt the destruction of Islam starting with the mushriks of mecca. But Islam always triumphed because Allah (swt) out of His divine mercy promised the safeguard & protection of Islam :

“They intend to put out the Light of Allaah (i.e. the religion of Islam, this Qur’aan, and Prophet Muhammad) with their mouths. But Allaah will bring His Light to perfection even though the disbelievers hate (it). [al-Saff :8-9]

and never will Allah give the disbelievers over the believers a way [to overcome them].[Quran 4:141]


“Allah has promised those among you who believe, and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the earth”

[an-Noor 24:55].




Going by you & @Hell hound post and history It seems you guys have absolutely 0 idea about both secular liberalism & most importantly Islam. You have absolutely 0 idea about what it means to be a Muslim and submitting to the will of Allah(swt) and being proud to be a slave of Allah (swt). If you did, you would not have uttered the non-sense you just did.






Brother I commend you zeal, enthusiasm and pride for Islam and largely agree with you. But I as a muslim and a fellow brother in faith must disagree on your mistaken understanding of what liberalism is. NO, muslims and Islam were never liberals and rightfully so. Is islam - the religion ordained by the Creator of everything that exists - lacking something (nauzubillah) that you have to express it in terms of other ideologies and world views? NO absolutely NOT.

What is liberalism

Europeans after they lost faith in Christianity essentially became materialistic deist or atheist. The society as a whole became irreligious and and the idea developed that all religions are false and have flaws like Christianity. The christian doctrine just like all other non-islamic doctrines obviously has flaws since it has been corrupted by men over time and NO longer the message bought by prophet Jesus (pbuh). Without religion The ideologies they developed to replace Christianity was secularism (separation of church & state) and Liberalism (individual autonomy, equality under the secular law etc) and that has certain underlying principles they considered absolute truths:

- Religion (west's trauma with Christianity) is inherently dogmatic and repressive and as such has to be controlled and made irrelevant. Its should be a "personal matter".

-Religion is man-made anyway and that rather than worry about the afterlife its more important to worry about the material life and enjoy it to its fullest. Religion and obeying God simply makes things difficult and bothersome.

-Human beings can understand everything thing with logic and reason (definition of logic/reason is something they themselves never agreed on) and since people may not agree on anything they came up with the concept of rule of the majority under the aegis of a secular constitution so that mob rule can not harm interest of businesses and elites.

-Science can solve all problems of mankind and scientism increasingly became the new religion. Darwinism later came and gave a big boost & justification to the materialistic philosophy of secularism.

- Society is made up of atomized individuals (individualism) that have no obligation or responsibility to society or family and these atomized individuals are equal under the secular law and only accountable to the state. Every individual is a "master" of their own-selves to pursue materialistic goals as long as it does NOT physically harm another individual . Putting objective morality OR religion would just make the whole structure collapse. This is the gist of what people call liberalism and this idea was developed by western philosophers like John Locke, Voltaire, Hume, Kant, Hobbes. You can call these people the prophets of liberalism and people like @Zibago & @Hell hound believed in these people's message without even knowing their names - dogmatic blind faith.

- Then they needed to assign some rights to these atomized individuals and since religion for them just does not make any sense - they based those rights on individualism, equality [all white men are equal (initially slaves & women were excluded)] In in their shallow intellect they conflated equality with justice and fairness. The current UN declaration of human rights is a copy paste of this western understanding of human rights - devoid of religion, objective morality and solely based on arbitrary reason & logic.

Make NO mistake every single tenet of these western ideology of liberalism is anti-theical to islam and Islamic world view. Islam is a religion of justice and fairness and the notion that humans can solve anything and everything with reason & logic is a alien concep. Allah (swt) did NOT give humans that ability and that is why prophet's & messengers were sent throughout the ages. In islam reason & logic is guided by divine revelation and muslims are NOT allowed to question divine revelation to suit their materialistic desires and abstract notions. Also islam does NOT grantee equality & equal rights to everyone but it gurantees due rights to everyone. People inherently differ in their gender, religion, languages and Islam takes that difference into consideration.

Another thing you have to realize is that the idea of absolute individual freedom (liberty) goes against Islam. As Muslims were are NOT free. We have submitted ourselves to the will of Allah(swt) and we have, unlike the non-muslims, achknowledged the fact that we human are nothing but slaves of Allah (swt) and we exist to worship Him (swt) alone without any partners. Everything happens by the will of Allah (swt) and everything single aspect of this universe and all that exist is under His (swt) control. This basic fundemental Islamic belief strikes at the very heart of everything liberalism stands for. This religion of secularism is at its core materialistic and is obsessed with control over all aspects of life. For them this life is the be all & end all of human existence and as such they feel a paranoia when they realize that they can't control all aspects of the material world. Anything (Islam) that hampers that materialistic endevour of humans is something they consider to be oppressive and restricting "free will". That is why you see them going ga ga over Islamic dress codes, dietary laws, family laws and Sharia's general emphasis on State regulating public sphere so that humans have an conducive environment to islamically develop them & their societies.

Btw Sharia does guarantee non-muslims unparalleled (compared to today's western liberal world) communal & religious freedom. Islamic dietary, family, financial laws do NOT apply to them. Also islam guarantees freedom in one's private sphere and restricts invasion into one's private life unlike what you find western liberal goverments and secular "muslim" goverments doing now a days. Secular liberals can keep their kufr beliefs to themselves even in a state ruled under islamic principles. They just have to closet themselves to their own communal and friends circle.

Btw Brother @Awan68 I am a sinful muslim just like you and do not claim to be a alem (scholar) or an expert in philosophy but I do have the basic understanding of my religion and the beliefs of many groups that are currently waging a war on Islam and one such group is liberal secularist. This post is meant just to correct some mistakes of a fellow brother in faith. I hope my post does NOT give out any rude vibe. I hope you take it in a positive light. May Allah (swt) guide us both to the path that pleases Him (swt) most.

I was defining the philosophical essence of the conceot of liberty, i was not comparing islam to the perverted concepts of liberalism that the west has...

 

[Luffy 500]

We are a conservative society so becoming a liberal democracy is somewhat alien to the majority of folks living here, I think we have to have our own pluralistic society that will be geared to our own values rather than liberal European states, will we get it, perhaps, though not in the immediate future.Kudos

Don't mind me asking - Do you have this false notion that somehow 2 or more groups can NOT co-exist under a system dominated by one ideological group? Because if that's the case pluralism is also non-existent in Europe as well where different groups are living under the political system dominated by liberal secularism.

Think of it this way - liberal secularism is the religion of the post-christian west and they just replaced Christianity with this new religion at the state level. Its NOT neutral. There's NO such thing as neutral ideology. Laws based on liberal world view are applied on everyone in the west (including most part of the non-western post-WWII world), even on those who DO NOT AGREE WITH THE RELIGION OF LIBERALISM. Now that's injustice isn't? But Europe and the west labels this socio-political system as pluralistic, just, egalitarian and fair. For them their laws and values are superior and universal and applies to everybody ......by force if necessary. Let us Muslims NOT take these bigots as our teachers. Because Islam allows different law for different groups where non-muslims have considerable autonomy to practice their beliefs and arrange their communities. They can even have their own courts. The hindu marriage law that PAK recently passed should have been passed a long time ago as per PAK islamic character. BUT in secular state civil law shaped by western paradigms would be shoved down the throat of both hindus & muslims.

They adopted ideologies that helped them get where they're today and there's no harm in accepting that as i said Mr Jinnah didn't wanted an Islamic state zia islamised Pakistan what have we achieved from that? where are standing today everything went down the moment that shaitan came to power.

You can not force sharia law on anyone.

Pls! it's ok to be patriotic but it's not ok to lie to yourself and don't even get me started on taliban issue otherwise thread will be derailed.

Don't quote me if you don't have any sensible thing to say.

SO you take you knowledge of Islam from huffigtonpost? Off all the sources of islamic knowledge availabe in this day and age, you could NOT bother going to a authentic authoritative site but instead opted for the gibberish of a huffingtonpost author. Learning about Islam from huffingtonpost is the same as a learning about israel-palestine conflict from the Times of Israel.

You are NOT serious about gaining knowledge but is simply knowing what you like to know, things that suit your preconceived notions and views. You are hardly bothered about turth and falsehood but satisfying your desires and living in you cocoon.

If you ever want to know about islam this is a list of FREE authentic internet resources, I as a Muslims would humbly suggest to you. Pure basic knowledge about Islam and nothing more :

http://bilalphilips.com/islamic-websites/

DO you know what sharia is btw? Building a mosque is sharia, nikah is sharia, going to hajj is sharia, making salah is sharia, eating halal meat is sharia etc etc. Islam is sharia and Sharia is Islam. The term sharia is not only restricted to certain punishments , that btw if you are a Muslim should NOT have a aversion to.

Sharia calls for regulation of the public space and that means it can dictate a minimum threshold for clothing both men & women can and can NOT wear in public. It can dictate whether shops should remain open & closed during certain time periods (already done in many countries under secular law), It can ban consumption of certain food and drink for Muslims while allow those food & drink for non-muslims, it can dictate what can and can NOT be shown and published in media and the type of speech that can and can Not be aired publicly and most importantly it can dictate what can and can NOT be taught to children in school and shape the education system as per islamic values & doctrines. And the list goes on.

If you did NOT notice all countries regulate public space, control media, free speech and education system. its just that the values and beliefs on which those regulation takes place is different.

Btw calling a muslim saytan is a serious sin. Or did you, a liberal already did takfir on president Zia ul Haq (may Allah have mercy on him) and consider him a non-muslim. Because that would be a real irony and funny.

Liberalism and "imposing ideology" are diametrically opposed concepts. Liberal philosophy is by definition open to individual rights and their thoughts. It isn't itself a coherent set of ideas in politics, economics or social theory either.

If you mean liberalism doesn't allow you to impose your preferred bias, then you're correct.

NO they are NOT. liberalism by definition imposes itself on everyone in society. There is NO such thing as neutral ideology. Every ideology is shaped by certain socio-political constructs and biases and rules derived from those ideologies will always reflect those socio-cultural constructs. Liberalism just shifts the goal post and plays deceit by claiming neutrality. Liberal secularists (westerners of all ideological stripes) have allocated themselves the previldege of judging other nations and imposing their rules on others since they consider themselves , the white race inherently superior than the rest.

Islam on the other hand never claims neutrality. It claims justice and fairness.

It seem you are too ideologically colonized to see that.

View attachment 386161

Do you have this false notion that minorities are NOT allowed to live their life under an Islamic socio-political system? Off course they do NOT have the same rights as muslims (nothing morally wrong) but they can live their life fully per their conscience. History is a testimony to that.

 

[ABCharlie]

PTI needs to put a patta around some of its 'lawmakers' necks.

 

[django]

@Hell hound what do you really think being a secular or liberal IS?
Frankly, though being "in-fashion" a vast majority of our secular are more extreme in there views that the extremists!! Only as bad as the worst kind of so-called Mullahs out there!! And not just OURS,, i have seen liberals and secular from different parts of the world being worst than the the group we have conveniently labeled "extremists"!!

@The Sandman @django @Zibago what do YOU people have to say about this?

@WAJsal @Moonlight @The Eagle ???

Bro I cannot stand the so-called Pseudo-liberals and their zealot counterparts like Mullah Burka, the vast majority of people are moderate in their beliefs and the majority of folks who practice their religion are true fundamentalist as they follow the fundamental of the Islam ie , pray 5 times per day, fast, give their Zakat etc and these same folks are appalled by the terrorism and bigotry we see form certain section of society, these folks are the silent majority unlike the extremists or neo-liberals who cannot even manage 5% in national elections .Kudos Arsalan bhai

 

[Verve]

Well said Brother, well said indeed.

Kudos to the PTI politician who said things that should be in the vernacular of all mainstream political parties of all Muslim countries. Secularist are non-muslims and as such are a minority in Muslim countries. They suffer from some serious inferiority complex and have considerable foreign backing to actually dream of stripping Muslim societies of their Islamic values & beliefs.

Also I believe it would be great and is a crying need to actually declare secularism and liberalism as separate religions OR sects of Christianity and their adherents should be given minority religious status in Muslim lands. If the state does it, many ignorant muslims who do NOT know better, would learn to view secularism and liberalism as it is deserved to be viewed i.e another religion. You do NOT see muslims talking about "christian islam" or "hindu Islam" like some idiots talk about "liberal Islam" and that is because people know these terms are oxymoron and incompatible with each other.



Liberals have the whole western media giants, corporations, NGOs and most importantly western goverments with them. If you do NOT know, one of the stated foreign policy objectives of subsequent US administrations is to "promote liberal democracy and human rights" to the rest of the world. You people are also in power in most Muslim countries since WWI and dominate the media, industry and education system and the result is there for all to see - utter chaos.

Btw most western philosophers and colonialist have been dreaming and longing for the disappearance of Islam like you did in your last sentence. They tried their best in Algeria for over a century, kemalist tried to root out islam from turkey for a century, commies in USSR banned muslims from Practicing Islam and burned down mosques but what happened. French were kicked out from algeria and still muslims are a majority there, kemalist & liberals got their *** whipped and are now languishing in jail while religion is seeing a comeback to C.asian states ruled by secular despots.


Enemies of Islam throughout the ages dreamt the destruction of Islam starting with the mushriks of mecca. But Islam always triumphed because Allah (swt) out of His divine mercy promised the safeguard & protection of Islam :

“They intend to put out the Light of Allaah (i.e. the religion of Islam, this Qur’aan, and Prophet Muhammad) with their mouths. But Allaah will bring His Light to perfection even though the disbelievers hate (it). [al-Saff :8-9]

and never will Allah give the disbelievers over the believers a way [to overcome them].[Quran 4:141]


“Allah has promised those among you who believe, and do righteous good deeds, that He will certainly grant them succession to (the present rulers) in the earth”

[an-Noor 24:55].




Going by you & @Hell hound post and history It seems you guys have absolutely 0 idea about both secular liberalism & most importantly Islam. You have absolutely 0 idea about what it means to be a Muslim and submitting to the will of Allah(swt) and being proud to be a slave of Allah (swt). If you did, you would not have uttered the non-sense you just did.






Brother I commend you zeal, enthusiasm and pride for Islam and largely agree with you. But I as a muslim and a fellow brother in faith must disagree on your mistaken understanding of what liberalism is. NO, muslims and Islam were never liberals and rightfully so. Is islam - the religion ordained by the Creator of everything that exists - lacking something (nauzubillah) that you have to express it in terms of other ideologies and world views? NO absolutely NOT.

What is liberalism

Europeans after they lost faith in Christianity essentially became materialistic deist or atheist. The society as a whole became irreligious and and the idea developed that all religions are false and have flaws like Christianity. The christian doctrine just like all other non-islamic doctrines obviously has flaws since it has been corrupted by men over time and NO longer the message bought by prophet Jesus (pbuh). Without religion The ideologies they developed to replace Christianity was secularism (separation of church & state) and Liberalism (individual autonomy, equality under the secular law etc) and that has certain underlying principles they considered absolute truths:

- Religion (west's trauma with Christianity) is inherently dogmatic and repressive and as such has to be controlled and made irrelevant. Its should be a "personal matter".

-Religion is man-made anyway and that rather than worry about the afterlife its more important to worry about the material life and enjoy it to its fullest. Religion and obeying God simply makes things difficult and bothersome.

-Human beings can understand everything thing with logic and reason (definition of logic/reason is something they themselves never agreed on) and since people may not agree on anything they came up with the concept of rule of the majority under the aegis of a secular constitution so that mob rule can not harm interest of businesses and elites.

-Science can solve all problems of mankind and scientism increasingly became the new religion. Darwinism later came and gave a big boost & justification to the materialistic philosophy of secularism.

- Society is made up of atomized individuals (individualism) that have no obligation or responsibility to society or family and these atomized individuals are equal under the secular law and only accountable to the state. Every individual is a "master" of their own-selves to pursue materialistic goals as long as it does NOT physically harm another individual . Putting objective morality OR religion would just make the whole structure collapse. This is the gist of what people call liberalism and this idea was developed by western philosophers like John Locke, Voltaire, Hume, Kant, Hobbes. You can call these people the prophets of liberalism and people like @Zibago & @Hell hound believed in these people's message without even knowing their names - dogmatic blind faith.

- Then they needed to assign some rights to these atomized individuals and since religion for them just does not make any sense - they based those rights on individualism, equality [all white men are equal (initially slaves & women were excluded)] In in their shallow intellect they conflated equality with justice and fairness. The current UN declaration of human rights is a copy paste of this western understanding of human rights - devoid of religion, objective morality and solely based on arbitrary reason & logic.

Make NO mistake every single tenet of these western ideology of liberalism is anti-theical to islam and Islamic world view. Islam is a religion of justice and fairness and the notion that humans can solve anything and everything with reason & logic is a alien concep. Allah (swt) did NOT give humans that ability and that is why prophet's & messengers were sent throughout the ages. In islam reason & logic is guided by divine revelation and muslims are NOT allowed to question divine revelation to suit their materialistic desires and abstract notions. Also islam does NOT grantee equality & equal rights to everyone but it gurantees due rights to everyone. People inherently differ in their gender, religion, languages and Islam takes that difference into consideration.

Another thing you have to realize is that the idea of absolute individual freedom (liberty) goes against Islam. As Muslims were are NOT free. We have submitted ourselves to the will of Allah(swt) and we have, unlike the non-muslims, achknowledged the fact that we human are nothing but slaves of Allah (swt) and we exist to worship Him (swt) alone without any partners. Everything happens by the will of Allah (swt) and everything single aspect of this universe and all that exist is under His (swt) control. This basic fundemental Islamic belief strikes at the very heart of everything liberalism stands for. This religion of secularism is at its core materialistic and is obsessed with control over all aspects of life. For them this life is the be all & end all of human existence and as such they feel a paranoia when they realize that they can't control all aspects of the material world. Anything (Islam) that hampers that materialistic endevour of humans is something they consider to be oppressive and restricting "free will". That is why you see them going ga ga over Islamic dress codes, dietary laws, family laws and Sharia's general emphasis on State regulating public sphere so that humans have an conducive environment to islamically develop them & their societies.

Btw Sharia does guarantee non-muslims unparalleled (compared to today's western liberal world) communal & religious freedom. Islamic dietary, family, financial laws do NOT apply to them. Also islam guarantees freedom in one's private sphere and restricts invasion into one's private life unlike what you find western liberal goverments and secular "muslim" goverments doing now a days. Secular liberals can keep their kufr beliefs to themselves even in a state ruled under islamic principles. They just have to closet themselves to their own communal and friends circle.

Btw Brother @Awan68 I am a sinful muslim just like you and do not claim to be a alem (scholar) or an expert in philosophy but I do have the basic understanding of my religion and the beliefs of many groups that are currently waging a war on Islam and one such group is liberal secularist. This post is meant just to correct some mistakes of a fellow brother in faith. I hope my post does NOT give out any rude vibe. I hope you take it in a positive light. May Allah (swt) guide us both to the path that pleases Him (swt) most.

 

[HRK]

We always have two curses to this nation "Mullah & Mr."
One want to convert us other want to subvert us ....

 

[Reichsmarschall]

In Pakistan anti nationals are labelled as liberals

Sir 99% of anti national are liberals
From ANP to MQM Safma Aman ka tamasha PPP etc all are liberals

Eagle sahib,

How do liberals and liberal extremists damage peace? Do they blow up folks, including by-standers? Do they threaten their opponents to leave the country (like some extremists in India do)? What precisely do they do?

Regards

they try to kill us as a nation all separatists element in Pakistan are Liberals

Bro, you are entitled to your own opinion.

But for us, opinion of Allama Muhammad Iqbal carries much more weight ... He believed that Islam and secularism were indeed compatible, and Islam as a religio-political system did permit separation of state and church. Regards

Ok if Islam is liberal then Islam says Homosexuality is haram but liberals want to legalize it
Islam says incest is sin but liberals also want to legalize incest
so whom should i support??

 

[Verve]

Sir 99% of anti national are liberals
From ANP to MQM Safma Aman ka tamasha PPP etc all are liberals

they try to kill us as a nation all separatists element in Pakistan are Liberals


Ok if Islam is liberal then Islam says Homosexuality is haram but liberals want to legalize it
Islam says incest is sin but liberals also want to legalize incest
so whom should i support??

When all the rats start gathering in one place, then that means they are in a panic mode.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Sir 99% of anti national are liberals
From ANP to MQM Safma Aman ka tamasha PPP etc all are liberals

they try to kill us as a nation all separatists element in Pakistan are Liberals


Ok if Islam is liberal then Islam says Homosexuality is haram but liberals want to legalize it
Islam says incest is sin but liberals also want to legalize incest
so whom should i support??

The PSF liberals were the first terrorist group in Pakistan led by Mir Murtaza Bhutto and his Al-zulfiqar group. Remember when they hijacked that PIA plane in 1981? It committed terror attacks in the 80's like in Lahore and Karachi which killed 72 injured Pakistanis and injured another 200.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Pakistan's biggest enemy is none other than Pakistani's themselves .. Imran khan is known for supporting Taliban and their narrative , lets not forget he was the one who suggested to open Taliban office in Islamabad, Pakistan would be better if we keep religion and State matter separate . you try to mix both and chaos is all you get, Shariah did not work even in the times of Rashidun caliphs .. remember the first civil war between Hazrat Ali and Aisha RA..

 

[Reichsmarschall]

When all the rats start gathering in one place, then that means they are in a panic mode.

Pakistani liberals flay military’s role at London meet
WORLD Updated: Oct 29, 2016 22:39 IST

Prasun Sonwalkar
Hindustan Times

Recounting the Pakistani military’s pervasive role in public life, speakers at a conference in Britain said the army was now involved in image and narrative management.(Reuters file)


The military’s influence in Pakistan’s public life came under fire at a conference here that brought together more than 60 left and liberal thinkers and political activists from the beleaguered country and elsewhere, with some calling for “controlled demolition” of the army’s role.

Organised by Saath Forum (South Asians Against Terrorism & for Human Rights) on Saturday, the conference on the Pakistan’s future issued a “London Declaration for Pakistani Pluralism” that highlighted several issues confronting the country.

Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s former envoy to the US, told Hindustan Times: “If Pakistan wants to avoid big pressure from the rest of the world, it has to change from within. The current narrative of the establishment is untenable.”

Organisers said the conference had to be held away from Pakistan because of what they called “threats to the security of free thinkers in the country”. Participants included leading Pakistani individuals based in Europe, the US and Canada.

The event highlighted a range of issues, including the marginalisation of the Baloch and other minorities by “Punjabi majoritarianism”, crises of identity, a shift in the military’s “control of government to control of governance”, and the need for a dialogue for unity among various ethnic groups.

In a moving presentation, politician Shahjahan Baloch strongly opposed the $46-billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) that, he said, had adversely affected Balochistan and recalled the killing of dozens of lawyers and police cadets in the province in the recent past.

“It is wrong to say there is democracy in Balochistan. We don’t want the development brought by CPEC. I have lost so many friends. Who will want the fruits of such development that comes with so many killings? We only want the right to life,” he said.

Recounting the military’s pervasive role in public life, speakers said the army was now involved in image and narrative management, with major investment in films, radio and theatre to “capture the mind before it gets ideas”.

To strengthen democracy, the military needs to be put on the back foot, speakers said, adding that news media in Pakistan was not being allowed to convey ground realities to the people.

The declaration said: “It is sad and disconcerting that instead of dealing with these issues with the help of fresh ideas espoused by broad-minded Pakistanis, the Pakistani state tends to appease religious extremists, continue to propagate religious extremism and allow it free spread in society and persistently misinform the people of Pakistan about the realities of our country.”

It added: “The Pakistani state, regrettably, expresses a continued willingness to engage with religious extremists and terrorists, and sometimes even talks of formally inducting Jihadi terrorist groups into the state’s paramilitary structure but remains hostile to liberal, progressive and nationalist groupings within Pakistan.”

Political parties representing Baloch, Mohajir, Sindhi and Pashtun segments of Pakistan’s population, the declaration said, had been targeted by state repression and hostile propaganda aimed at delegitimising them even when they had won clear electoral mandates.

Participants included former lawmaker Afrasiyab Khattak, former Pakistan high commissioner to UK Wajid Shamsul Hasan, columnist Ayesha Siddiqa, Anis Haroon, rights activist Beena Sarwar, broadcaster Murtaza Solangi, scholar Mohammad Taqi, journalist Rashed Rehman, Taimur Rahman, Wasay Jalil and Senge Hasnan Sering

 

[Verve]

The PSF liberals were the first terrorist group in Pakistan led by Mir Murtaza Bhutto and his Al-zulfiqar group. Remember when they hijacked that PIA plane in 1981? It committed terror attacks in the 80's like in Lahore and Karachi which killed 72 injured Pakistanis and injured another 200.

And the liberals on PDF claim 'we do not kill' .. yeah!

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Pakistan's biggest enemy is none other than Pakistani's themselves .. Imran khan is known for supporting Taliban and their narrative , lets not forget he was the one who suggested to open Taliban office in Islamabad, Pakistan would be better if we keep religion and State matter separate . you try to mix both and chaos is all you get, Shariah did not work even in the times of Rashidun caliphs .. remember the first civil war between Hazrat Ali and Aisha RA..

The fighting was instigated by Sab'iyyah, it was not the intention of Ali or Aishah.

Historians like al-Tabari and others mention that this fighting was instigated by a group known as the Sab'iyyah in order to prevent the conciliation between the companions.

After the killing of Uthman, some companions wanted the murderers to be brought to justice. On the other hand Ali wanted to stabilize the situation and avoid an even bigger problems. So he chose not to immediately. Aishah, Talha, and Azubayr lead a contingent to Basra (May Allah be pleased with them all) with the intention of reconciliation.

When Ali heard this, he traveled to meet them with an a large contingent. The intention was to make them understand and obey his order (as the caliph and leader of Muslims), as well as discussing what to do with the murderers.

The Sab'iyah saw this as a threat to themselves. They hid among both sides. When the two met they caused them fight: They would attack the other side. Those in the other side would call out that they are being attacked. This is how the battle started and a number of great companions died.

 

[VCheng]

Recounting the military’s pervasive role in public life, speakers said the army was now involved in image and narrative management, with major investment in films, radio and theatre to “capture the mind before it gets ideas”.

As much as I criticize the military, I will also say that the alternative to the military's alternative is to present a better one. Merely complaining about the military's pervasive role is not enough. The public must see that there is something else that is viable in addition to the military and they will see the light themselves. Thus far, all the public trusts is the Army, which is a damning indictment of the civilian sector's performance.

 

[YeBeWarned]

The fighting was instigated by Sab'iyyah, it was not the intention of Ali or Aishah.

Historians like al-Tabari and others mention that this fighting was instigated by a group known as the Sab'iyyah in order to prevent the conciliation between the companions.

After the killing of Uthman, some companions wanted the murderers to be brought to justice. On the other hand Ali wanted to stabilize the situation and avoid an even bigger problems. So he chose not to immediately. Aishah, Talha, and Azubayr lead a contingent to Basra (May Allah be pleased with them all) with the intention of reconciliation.

When Ali heard this, he traveled to meet them with an a large contingent. The intention was to make them understand and obey his order (as the caliph and leader of Muslims), as well as discussing what to do with the murderers.

The Sab'iyah saw this as a threat to themselves. They hid among both sides. When the two met they caused them fight: They would attack the other side. Those in the other side would call out that they are being attacked. This is how the battle started and a number of great companions died.

Whatever the explanation , the point is that the system was not a success and when the leader like Rashidun Caliphs can not hold it how on earth people like we have in Pakistan can ?? Shariah mixed with Mullah is more deadly combination than a nuclear strike ..
Pakistan can only see prosperity when and if we keep religion out of state matters , if not than this war against extremist and fundamentalist will keep going and our new generation will see people like Mumtaaz Qadri as HERO'..