I don't follow any mullah except listening to Tariq Jamils stories and yes but what can we normal Muslims do about it? if we try to correct mullahs or try to correct misconceptions about Islam we're labeled as a western jewish agents and we get death threats. On this very forum me and zibago got death threats because we called spade a spade we called qadri and ilm deen criminals just imagine what would happened to us if we were sitting in front of them?
LEARN about your religion!! If you think that the Mullahs are not doing right by it, well, it is not there property!! It is your religion too so why dont YOU do those right things? Why dont we?
Do you think any educated Pakistani here will want his kid to be an Alim-e-deen? If not, then do we have the right to blame others for spoiling our religion???
As for Qadri and Ilm Deen, sir, you CANNOT compare them!! What Mahashe Rajpal DID and what Salman Taseer was ACCUSED of doing are not the same things!! NOT EVEN CLOSE BAHI! I think you may want to read that book "Rangila Rasool" to have an idea about it, that is, if you think you are educated and well informed enough not to be misled. I dont think i am. Still. You may want to have a look and decide.
I agree just being secular won't make us a progressive country but it will work as a booster and yes our religion teaches us these things.
I will take it one step further dear, you say it will work as a booster but you cannot get the boost with the main engine turned off. Where are those virtues that are needed to get there? Taught by history and also by Islam. I will say "first things first". Taking religion out of the picture wont make us honest, lets be honest first. Only then we can know for sure if religion is setting us back in anyway!! For now, i will blame the dishonesty in all of us for where we are. Anyway, that is what i DO! You are surely entitled to your own choices and point of view. (and that is not a secular statement, it is what Islam teaches me)
Those who blame religion are absolutely wrong if someone has misunderstood Islam or intentionally did that for his own personal agenda than it's him who's at fault bro i believe in "That Islam is the best religion but it has the worst followers" but here i would like to blame our elders who allowed mullahs to hijack religion and Pakistan who allowed mullahs to brainwash them.
- Blame elders curse the religion
- Blame elders, take matters in your own hands, take the problem head on and SOLVE IT
Choice is ours to make!
To be honest, WHAT ARE WE DOING TO CHANGE THAT INSTEAD OF BLAMING OTHERS, which is what we ALL DO!
Again, will you being the elder want your son to be a Moliv in a mosque and guide people about true Islam? I wont! So why and how can i blame. There is a statement by someone i cant recal in this regard, it goes something like "
jb tk bayta apnay baap ka jinaza aur baap apni beti ka nikkah kud na parha saky hum uen he in mullaon ke rah-o-karam pa rahin gy aur zaleel hoty rahin gy"
Are we willing to change that or we also have decide that looking the other ways and just distancing our self from the religion will solve our problems?
Yes it's after joining PDF i started to learn more and more about Islam and i know how liberal our religion is and as fallen king repeatedly said Islam is a liberal and a secular religion already and west have adopted these things but how are you gonna explain it to molvis and their supporters? you tell me can you convince even one guy on this thread without getting abused and labeled as a western agent?
So we should just give up?
Bro those guys are distorting our RELIGION!! We decide to look the other way,, how different are we from them both? the liberals and the Mullahs!!
You do not need to CONVINCE anyone, deen mein jabar ni!! But that means ka agr follow krny KA LEA koi pressure ni tu follow krny PAYY BHE koi pressure ni!!! We cannot use this just to say that you cannot enforce Islam on to me, it also mean that you cannot take it AWAY from me!!
What we need to do is EDUCATE OUR SELF about our religion, follow it and keep it. If we start dong that, eventually things will start to change for good. However if we leave it to the school drop outs to represent our religion and then just blame them for doing it the wrong way, i am sorry but we are no different form them as far as i can see.
@The Sandman @Zibago @Fallen King @Azlan Haider @XenoEnsi-14 from what i have gathered after reading 16 pages is that people here just hating on a the liberal and secular tag here just for the sake of hating it and are putting no effort in understanding the idea behind it.they think of liberalism as some kind of static western concept which is unmalleable hence can only be applied the way it is applied in western countries.what they fail to understand is that it is a dynamic in nature and all it do is provide you with some building blocks in the form of basic concepts and moralities.after that your are free to build upon it keeping your culture and surrounding environment in mind.
Goes both ways y friend. People are either hating or are loving it just for the sake of it, very few realizing what it actually means and what we actually WANT!!
That is why i always say that we do not need religions extremism, liberalism or secularism but plain and simple moderation!! That's it!
Jinnah wanted an Islamic Pakistan and not a secular or a theocratic Pakistan. People need to understand Islamic Pakistan is nor theocratic neither it is secular, but it is opposite of both. People like Justice Munir misguided the youth by wrongly quoting Jinnah's addresses without regard to context, circumstances and by deliberately omitting parts and lines from Jinnah's addresses.
If people of Pakistan believe Jinnah wanted a secular Pakistan then it would be strengthening the idea of enemies who say Jinnah wanted a separate land for himself to rule. The Muslim nationalists and congress were content with secular india after partition ........... if Jinnah wanted secular state then why would he so vehemently support the idea of a separate country for Muslims of subcontinent? Munir and his disciples do injustice to Jinnah and his ten year struggle. Jinnah's first broadcast to American people and countless other addresses clearly show what he wanted, and he was a man following Quran he wouldn't disown his word soon after he accomplished a miracle like Pakistan.
A theocracy is opposite of an Islamic state, Mullahs get to make decisions in a theocracy but in Islamic state the state itself derives laws from Quran according to their needs within unchangeable limits provided by Quran. And Quran amply addresses rights of minorities and freedom of humans.
@Arsalan
Yet to come across someone who explained it better!
THANKS A LOT!
To be honest, i dont know what Mr. Mohamamd Ali JInnah wanted, however i do know that THIS IS what WE NEED!!! Isnt it a reason enough to go this way??
Thanks again.
