Secularists should 'mend ways or leave country', says PTI lawmaker

[M. Sarmad]

We are wasting time over the debate that is built on mistranslation to begin with.

Let's get some clarity on the meaning of Al-Fujjar.

What does Al-Fujjar mean? Evil-Doers or Free-Thinkers? Let's focus on this first.

In the context of Islam, a faajir (Arabic: فاجر‎‎; plural fajarah, فجرة) is a "wicked evil-doer", i.e. a "sinner by action".[1]

 

[Verve]

Since Verve failed to prove the whole Surah and everything, the word Fujjar came from the Surah

I had provided you with Surah name and number. And even in the initial quote, 80 means Surah number.

You are an idiot who doesn't even get that!

 

[MultaniGuy]

Not really. In fact, Canada has deported many people who defy the basics fundamental of Canada. Don't be under the impression since you are safe despite your anti-liberal outlooks that contradicts the liberal Canada.

I,m waiting to be deported lol. Canada is not for liberals only. Its for everyone. That is where you flop and are wrong. I'm waiting to be send back to Pakistan Where have you run off Fallen King ??? Or are you afraid you lost the debates?

 

[Verve]

Right, time for bed ... enough reading material and references for you libertines (I mean, freethinkers who are believers)...

 

[I.R.A]

A example of Jinnah (R.A) lifestyle would be prime example. He was Muslim who prayed, fasted, believed in Islam and did the right thing; and on the other hand, had secular life, did education, respected people/women and believed in equality. Just my favorite kind and just the way he envisioned for Pakistan.

Jinnah wanted an Islamic Pakistan and not a secular or a theocratic Pakistan. People need to understand Islamic Pakistan is nor theocratic neither it is secular, but it is opposite of both. People like Justice Munir misguided the youth by wrongly quoting Jinnah's addresses without regard to context, circumstances and by deliberately omitting parts and lines from Jinnah's addresses.

If people of Pakistan believe Jinnah wanted a secular Pakistan then it would be strengthening the idea of enemies who say Jinnah wanted a separate land for himself to rule. The Muslim nationalists and congress were content with secular india after partition ........... if Jinnah wanted secular state then why would he so vehemently support the idea of a separate country for Muslims of subcontinent? Munir and his disciples do injustice to Jinnah and his ten year struggle. Jinnah's first broadcast to American people and countless other addresses clearly show what he wanted, and he was a man following Quran he wouldn't disown his word soon after he accomplished a miracle like Pakistan.

A theocracy is opposite of an Islamic state, Mullahs get to make decisions in a theocracy but in Islamic state the state itself derives laws from Quran according to their needs within unchangeable limits provided by Quran. And Quran amply addresses rights of minorities and freedom of humans. @Arsalan

 

[M. Sarmad]

@Azlan Haider

There you go ...... now go through and digest (or dissect)!

Verse (80:42) - English Translation - The Quranic Arabic Corpus ...
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=80&verse=42
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. .... Arberry: those -- they are the unbelievers, the libertines.
Verse (71:27) - English Translation - The Quranic Arabic Corpus ...
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=71&verse=27
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the .... will lead Thy servants astray, and will beget none but unbelieving libertines.
Verse (83:7) - English Translation - The Quranic Arabic Corpus ...
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=83&verse=7
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. .... Arberry: No indeed; the Book of the libertines is in Sijjin;.
Verse (82:14) - English Translation - The Quranic Arabic Corpus ...
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=82&verse=14
Welcome to the Quranic Arabic Corpus, an annotated linguistic resource for the Holy Quran. This page .... Arberry: and the libertines shall be in a fiery furnace.
The Message Of Quran And Hadith | The Message Of The Libertines ...
https://www.facebook.com/directory/pages/T-5870530-5870538
Browse Pages. Bands, Businesses, Restaurants, Brands and Celebrities can create Pages in order to connect with their fans and customers on Facebook.
Why Pete Doherty has jumped to the front of the line for BPD celebs ...
www.anythingtostopthepain.com/why-pete-doherty-has-jumped-to-the-front-of-the-li...
28 Apr 2008 - The former Libertines singer has continually been in the headlines over ... One of Doherty's friends said: “He's been reading the Quran since he ...
Sufism: A Global History - Page 28 - Google Books Result
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1405157615
Nile Green - 2012 - ‎Religion
Like the Quran, the Hadith was not an “agent” or necessarily even a “source” of ... Far from being rule-breaking libertines or spirit-filled radicals, we should ...
Mujùn: Libertinism in Medieval Muslim Society and Literature
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0906094941
Zoltan Szombathy - 2013 - ‎Religion
The similarities with libertines are clear. (I have no evidence that libertines would typically have been ostracised by their kin – although in some ... [Quran 45:24].

Did you actually read it before posting it here ??

Fajir means "Evil-doer" as per the links you yourself posted here

 

[Finer]

I,m waiting to be deported lol. Canada is not for liberals only. Its for everyone. That is where you flop and are wrong. I'm waiting to be send back to Pakistan Where have you run off Fallen King ??? Or are you afraid you lost the debates?

Canada is based on liberal democracy. What do you think multiculturalism mean? It means everyone; that means plural faiths. And anyone who finds himself/herself defying basic fundamentals of Canada will be easily deported. In fact, Canada has deported many Muslim people in the last few years.

 

[Verve]

Did you actually read it before posting it here ??

Fajir means "Evil-doer" as per the links you yourself posted here

Each link lists various translations of the ayats ..... and I have translation by A J Arberry in front of me right now too! Libertine is there!

I am not sure if you are blind or what ... you can't read the words?

 

[MultaniGuy]

Canada is based on liberal democracy. What do you think multiculturalism mean? It means everyone with plural faiths. And anyone who finds himself/herself defying basic fundamentals of Canada will be easily deported. In fact, Canada has deported many Muslim people in the last few years.

Pakistan doesnt claim to be a liberal democracy. You have missed the point. Pakistan doesnt claim to be a land of freedom for gays or libertines. Canada claims to be a land of freedom like India, USA, Japan,etc.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Each link lists various translations of the ayats ..... and I have translation by A J Arberry in front of me right now too!

Bas ker de bhai. Even Arberry hasn't translated "Faajir" as "Freethinker" ... It is a very simple Arabic word ... Kisi se bhi poch laina iska matlab

I am not sure if you are blind or what ... you can't read the words?

Stop trolling bhai ... Ja so ja

 

[Finer]

Right, time for bed ... enough reading material and references for you libertines (I mean, freethinkers who are believers)...

Disbelievers means those who disbelieve in GOD. I believe in GOD and i am free-thinkers.

Fujjar means disbeliever, wicked, evil-doers, corrupters falls into the category of criminal activity.

So why would GOD be against knowledge when being free-thinkers is the only way to obtain the knowledge? Hence the technology which by the way you are welcome given irony continues to elude you considering the debate you are on using technology to begin with.

Pakistan doesnt claim to be a liberal democracy. You have missed the point. Pakistan doesnt claim to be a land of freedom for gays or libertines. Canada claims to be a land of freedom like India, USA, Japan,etc.

Anyone who defy basic fundamental rights of Canada will be deported. It is liberal Canada as its can get. You don't belong in the liberal Canada if you are anti-Liberal. By the way, it is liberal-elected government running Canada.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

and see below:

libertine
ˈlɪbətiːn,ˈlɪbətɪn,ˈlɪbətʌɪn/
noun

1. 1.
   a person, especially a man, who freely indulges in sensual pleasures without regard to moral principles.
   "his image as an unbridled libertine is a total myth"
   synonyms: philanderer, ladies' man, playboy, rake, roué, loose-liver, Don Juan, Lothario,Casanova, Romeo; More
   
   
2. 2.
   a freethinker in matters of religion.

adjective

1. 1.
   characterized by free indulgence in sensual pleasures.
   "his more libertine impulses"
   synonyms: licentious, lustful, libidinous, lecherous, lascivious, lubricious, dissolute, dissipated,debauched, immoral, wanton, shameless, degenerate, depraved, debased, profligate,promiscuous, unchaste, lewd, prurient, salacious, indecent, immodest, impure, carnal,intemperate, abandoned, unrestrained, unprincipled, reprobate; More
   
   
2. 2.
   freethinking.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/libertine

Libertine

noun
1. a person who is morally or sexually unrestrained, especially a dissoluteman; a profligate; rake.
Or
2. a freethinker in religious matters.
Or
3. a person freed from slavery in ancient Rome.

adjective
4. free of moral, especially sexual, restraint; dissolute; licentious.
Or
5. freethinking in religious matters.
Or
6. Archaic. unrestrained; uncontrolled.

Words have different meanings depending on how it's used. However, you can't use multiple definitions at once. You'er using libertine as an adj., 4 or 6, and noun 1., yet you turn around and say that it means freethinker. So either you lack understanding of the language you are writing in, or you are purposely being hypocritical to flame bate and confuse those you are debating with.

I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt, and hope I helped you.

P.S. Freethinker, is able to explore the teachings of Allah (God, or whatever language you speak) and the Prophets, and the physical universe, using reason without the dogma of taqlid, allowing them to expand their fitra.

In other words, practicing ijtihad. Which you seem to be against.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Allah gave islam as a complete code of life, islamic law was given by Allah to implement on muslim nations, the caliph was Allahs representative on earth, wth are u talking about, islsm has nothing to do with secularism which is a european phenomina cause christianity was a religion, islam is not a religion, its away of life prescribed by Allah, isls

Nara-e-Takbeer Allah Ho Akber is that what you want me to say ?

 

[MultaniGuy]

Disbelievers means those who disbelieve in GOD. I believe in GOD and i am free-thinkers.

Fujjar means disbeliever, wicked, evil-doers, corrupters falls into the category of criminal activity.

So why would be GOD against knowledge when being free-thinkers is the only way to obtain the knowledge? Hence the technology which by the way you are welcome given irony continues to eludes you which you are using technology to debate in this forum.



Anyone who defy basic fundamental rights of liberal Canada will be deported. It is liberal Canada as its can get. You don't belong in the liberal Canada if you are anti-Liberal. By the way, it is liberal-elected government running Canada.

Nice try lol. Canada claims to be a country for everyone. Even for religious zealots. You cannot deny that. Which fundamental right of Canada have i broken. Its Canada so Canadian laws apply.

 

[Finer]

Some signs of Freethinker in term of Islamic knowledge here;

[Surah Al-Alaq (96)]

Recite in the name of your Lord who created -
Created man from a clinging substance.
Recite, and your Lord is the most Generous -
Who taught by the pen -
Taught man that which he knew not.


There is no compulsion in religion: true guidance has become distinct from error, so whoever rejects false gods and believes in God has grasped the firmest hand-hold, one that will never break. God is all hearing and all knowing. Quran 2:256

He brings the living out of the dead and the dead out of the living. He gives life to the earth after death, and you will be brought out in the same way. One of His signs is that He created you from dust and—lo and behold!—you became human and scattered far and wide. Another of His signs is that He created spouses from among yourselves for you to live with in tranquillity: He ordained love and kindness between you. There truly are signs in this for those who reflect. Another of His signs is the creation of the heavens and earth, and the diversity of your languages and colors. There truly are signs in this for those who know. Quran 30:19-22
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The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The seeking of knowledge is obligatory for every Muslim." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 74

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “One who treads a path in search of knowledge has his path to Paradise made easy by God…” - Riyadh us-Saleheen, 245

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "A servant of God will remain standing on the Day of Judgment until he is questioned about his (time on earth) and how he used it; about his knowledge and how he utilized it; about his wealth and from where he acquired it and in what (activities) he spent it; and about his body and how he used it." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 148

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "God, His angels and all those in Heavens and on Earth, even ants in their hills and fish in the water, call down blessings on those who instruct others in beneficial knowledge." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 422

The Prophet also said: "Acquire knowledge and impart it to the people." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 107

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "If anyone travels on a road in search of knowledge, God will cause him to travel on one of the roads of Paradise. The angels will lower their wings in their great pleasure with one who seeks knowledge. The inhabitants of the heavens and the Earth and (even) the fish in the deep waters will ask forgiveness for the learned man. The superiority of the learned over the devout is like that of the moon, on the night when it is full, over the rest of the stars. The learned are the heirs of the Prophets, and the Prophets leave (no monetary inheritance), they leave only knowledge, and he who takes it takes an abundant portion. - Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 1631


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The Quran provides no punishment for leaving the faith, but simply commands believers to make sure that non-believers are aware of Islam:

But if they turn away [Prophet], your only duty is to deliver the message clearly. Quran 16:82 similar 5:99

# That renders the Blasphemy Law pointless completely.
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The complete set of Surah Al-Mutaffifin

1. Woe to those that deal in fraud,
2. Those who, when they have to receive by measure from men, exact full measure,
3. But when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than due.
4. Do they not think that they will be called to account?
5. On a Mighty Day,
6. A Day when (all) mankind will stand before the Lord of the Worlds?
7. Day! Surely the record of the wicked is (preserved) in Sijjin.
8. And what will explain to thee what Sijjin is?
9. (There is) a Register (fully) inscribed.
10. Woe, that Day, to those that deny
11. Those that deny the Day of Judgment.
12. And none can deny it but the Transgressor beyond bounds the Sinner!
13. When Our Signs are rehearsed to him, he says, "Tales of the ancients!"
14. By no means! but on their hearts is the stain of the (ill) which they do!
15. Verily, from (the Light of) their Lord, that Day, will they be veiled.
16. Further, they will enter the Fire of Hell.
17. Further, it will be said to them: "This is the (reality) which ye rejected as false!
18. Day, verily the record of the Righteous is (preserved) in 'Illiyin.
19. And what will explain to thee what 'Illiyun is?
20. (There is) a Register (fully) inscribed,
21. To which bear witness those Nearest (to Allah)
22. Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss:
23. On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things):
24. Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss.
25. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed:
26. The seal thereof will be Musk: And for this let those aspire, who have aspirations:
27. With it will be (given) a mixture of Tasnim:
28. A spring, from (the waters) whereof drink those Nearest to Allah.
29. Those in sin used to laugh at those who believed,
30. And whenever they passed by them, used to wink at each other (in mockery);
31. And when they returned to their own people, they would return jesting;
32. And whenever they saw them, they would say, "Behold! These are the people truly astray!"
33. But they had not been sent as keepers over them!
34. But on this Day the Believers will laugh at the Unbelievers:
35. On Thrones (of Dignity) they will command (a sight) (of all things).
36. Will not the Unbelievers have been paid back for what they did?

Source = Quran411