Saudi Arabia/GCC countries still reliable allies? Pakistani government's terrible diplomacy at work.

[VCheng]

I've always said it from the moment I started posting online (22 years ago) that Pakistan's only friends are Turkey and China. The rest are acquaintances, nations of interest and just a hello and goodbye basis.

There are no friends or foes in international geopolitics, only temporary alignments and oppositions of national interests. Always.

 

[Dalit]

There are no friends or foes in international geopolitics, only temporary alignments and oppositions of national interests. Always.

That is true for almost 99% of nations in the world. There still is 1% which you can call an ally.

 

[waz]

Where are the resident al-B@kistanis at? Let me guess, they're going to blame Pakistan for this instead of admitting that their beloveds are in bed with everyone else.

I think regardless of where you stand i.e. support Saudi, are anti or just plain neutral now is the time for serious self reflection and just what Pakistan needs to do. Let's leave the hostility out of this and just see what people think the next steps are.

 

[BHarwana]

GCC have one bro, and the Saudis were leading it. It's everywhere.

Take a look;

Okay look bro GCC can vote in "MENAFATF" Bro. Only China Turkey Russia Malaysia and South Africa voted for Pakistan.

Pakistan's name is not on the list that has been released.

Now lets talk about June in June there will be another meeting and than there will be a vote again and in October there will be another meeting and there will be a vote again and so on. FATF meets every 4 months. Pakistan is not getting on that list I can assure you that.

 

[Metanoia]

There are no friends or foes in international geopolitics, only temporary alignments and oppositions of national interests. Always.

Sir, broadly speaking that is true. However there are special relationships based on common culture etc., for instance US-UK, US-Israel, Sino-Pak. Earlier Saudi and other GCC monarchs did have special relations with Pakistan but things have changed now.

There're exceptions to the rule.

PS. I know there's no common culture between Pak and China, but due to geographical proximity and common regional threats, the relationship evolved to something special.

 

[waz]

To be fair, the Saudi monarchs before Abdullah had cordial relationship with Pakistan.

Yes king Faisal etc, but something has gone wrong and if this is all it took for the GCC to leave Pakistan high and dry, then I'm afraid ally they are not.

 

[BHarwana]

Are all countries which are members of the Gulf Cooperation Council also members of the FATF?
Although the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) is a full Member of the FATF, the individual Member countries of the GCC (of Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates) are not. As an FATF Member, the GCC is committed to implementing the anti-money laundering (AML) and counter-terrorist financing (CFT) measures agreed to by the FATF Members - in particular, the FATF Recommendations.
To monitor and assess the progress of its Members in implementing FATF standards, the FATF conducts a mutual evaluation exercise. As the GCC member countries are not Members of the FATF themselves, and their mutual evaluations are conducted jointly with the regional AML/CFT body for the Middle East and North Africa (MENAFATF).

http://www.fatf-gafi.org/faq/membercountriesandobservers/

GCC = Saudi Arabia

The GCC countries fall in MENAFATF Not FATF

 

[waz]

Okay look bro GCC can vote in "MENAFATF" Bro. Only China Turkey Russia Malaysia and South Africa voted for Pakistan.

Pakistan's name is not on the list that has been released.

Now lets talk about June in June there will be another meeting and than there will be a vote again and in October there will be another meeting and there will be a vote again and so on. FATF meets every 4 months. Pakistan is not getting on that list I can assure you that.

Bro leaving everything aside they ditched Pakistan that's clear. I know we should wait for June, but just look at the state of affairs now. You only need to read that Reuters article and see what the good doctor is saying.....

 

[Metanoia]

Yes king Faisal etc, but something has gone wrong and if this is all it took for the GCC to leave Pakistan high and dry, then I'm afraid ally they are not.

You're right, something is terribly wrong and it's not even only limited to Pakistan. They have turned against each other internally and there are severe disputes.

I think regardless of where you stand i.e. support Saudi, are anti or just plain neutral now is the time for serious self reflection and just what Pakistan needs to do. Let's leave the hostility out of this and just see what people think the next steps are.

The post of mine you quoted was only for the blind followers, the zombies.

 

[313ghazi]

Well as expected what went on at the FATF meeting has finally come out. The three votes of Turkey, China and GCC were negated. After the Saudi led contingent voted, the American delegation simply walked over and spoke to them, and in the next round they withdrew their objection. In return I believe they are being made a full member and there are some other perks.
I remember reading the deployment of 1,000 men in Saudi and how many cheered it, but what happened here. It seems the Saudis/GCC dropped Pakistan into it without much hesitation. The Chinese gave up as now it was 2/3 and the Turks voted with determination.


On another note when I read things like this I honestly lose a great deal of hope;

Pakistan’s de facto finance minister, Miftah Ismail, has brushed off concerns that economic growth will suffer because of the country’s re-inclusion on a terrorist financing watch list, and lashed out against the United States for seeking to “embarrass” his nation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-terror-financing-list-minister-idUSKCN1GA13I

He believes growth will not suffer.....

We need to learn not to rely on anyone. We all know examples of where blood brothers have betrayed each other, where children/parents have betrayed each other, where wives/husbands have betrayed each other. Knowing this why are we surprised when nations betray us? Especially consider the nations betraying us are full of people who betray their own.

We need to stop expecting others to look out for us and learn to look out for ourselves. We need to focus on strength not allies. When you are strong you don't need to rely on anyone. When you are strong allies gravitate towards you. Think real politik, what can we offer someone that our enemies cannot? The only place we have that influence is Afghanistan and that's because we're using the Taliban to undermine their government. What how long term we bodge that up too.

 

[VCheng]

I think regardless of where you stand i.e. support Saudi, are anti or just plain neutral now is the time for serious self reflection and just what Pakistan needs to do. Let's leave the hostility out of this and just see what people think the next steps are.

"Longer term, it is clear that de facto control of national security matters by the military leadership while a civilian government is left to defend policies it does not necessarily agree with is unworkable. Set aside the ongoing tussle between Nawaz Sharif on one side and a widespread perception of a judicial-military combine on the other. Ten years since the democratic transition began, there have been two parliaments, several prime ministers and one recurring theme: civilians under pressure for advocating what are eminently sensible national security policies."

https://www.dawn.com/news/1391735/questions-after-fatf

 

[Kambojaric]

Chinese got the vice-presidency. Saudis got "convinced" by the US (see excerpt below). Only country that stood with us till the end is Turkey. Says a lot. Our foreign policy is a shambles. Until we can grow our economy, nobody will take us seriously on international forums.

"“The US officials went out of their way to convince the Saudis, while China backed out from supporting Pakistan afterwards because the Chinese vote wouldn’t have sufficed since three votes are needed to block the move and Pakistan only had Turkey’s,” a Foreign Office official told Asia Times."

http://www.atimes.com/article/pakistan-put-terror-watchlist-diplomatic-farce-paris/

 

[waz]

You're right, something is terribly wrong and it's not even only limited to Pakistan. They have turned against each other internally and there are severe disputes.

I think Pakistan just needs to step back, quietly work on itself and emerge a decade later as a strong nation .There is a lot of internal work that has been ignored which is now biting Pakistan on the world level.

 

[BHarwana]

Bro leaving everything aside they ditched Pakistan that's clear. I know we should wait for June, but just look at the state of affairs now. You only need to read that Reuters article and see what the good doctor is saying.....

Doctor is a PML-N that is why he is saying what he is saying. How will they put Pakistan on the list? Doctor created this controversy this is the extension of DAWN leaks. What Dr. said that Pakistan might go there but and he said it deliberately to fuel all this fake news. The more important matter discussed at FATF was Panama case of money laundering which no one talked about.

 

[VCheng]

I think Pakistan just needs to step back, quietly work on itself and emerge a decade later as a strong nation There is a lot of internal work that has been ignored which is now biting Pakistan on the world level.

I told you all so, all through the years here.