Russia’s Choice: Power Balancer or China’s Canada?

[Indo-guy]

Sure Russia helped to establish"PRC",NOT China. but if it didnt and gave ROC a chance to consolidate its control over China after the war, can you say for sure that the result would be bad for the Chinese people?Russians just wanted to establish a pro Soviet government in China at the cost of Chinese people,but it was understandable,all countries do things in their own interest.

I agree with you . In international politics there are no permanent friends or even permanent enemies ....

Look at this ...at the end of the world war ...Japan was US enemy and US was (unwwishfully ) on side of China ...today whole equation has changed ...

Pakistan was once US great friend ....today Pakistan hates US like nothing ...
Same US which threatened India in war of 1972 ...is getting closer to India...all happens with reasons ....
US pitted Pakistan against India and now wants to pit India against China ....
Just like China props Pakistan against India ....
US wants to contain china that's why they have discovered common democratic values in India now...They will make sure that India and China keep each others busy ...so that Beijing does not catch up and threaten its Number 1 position !

This is how big countries work ...

 

[beijingwalker]

China won't catch up with anyone in the developed world in it's current political form. There is a reason that not a single one of the "advanced" nations on this Earth are single party states.

What didn't happen in the past can''t prove what can not happen in the future,check out the world's history and it's not very difficult to figure it out.

 

[Indo-guy]

China won't catch up with anyone in the developed world in it's current political form. There is a reason that not a single one of the "advanced" nations on this Earth are single party states.

Well why should I argue with you ! Time will tell ....

keep your political system ideology aside ....If China has come this far ...it can go further irrespective of what political system Chinese people decide to adopt ( They are ok with current system- we have no right to tell them what system they need )

 

[Fattyacids]

Immediately after establishment of PRC , Soviet union supported men ,machine all expertise and technology that was needed to kickstart industrialization. Scores of Russian technicians and experts worked in China . It was the only ally the china had that time . Infact Sovereign recognition to PRC was first among all nations was given by Soviet union . Soviet union gave away its naval bases in Port Arthur and Dalian to China as part of Sino -Soviet Friendship treaty . Without Soviet help Mao could not have initiated process of industrialization. Remember PRC had just been born after tumultuous period. These are true undeniable facts .
It is true that after Sino Soviet split Russia withdrew all assistance . And it is also well known that Chinese always contest amount of assistance that they received during this period . Don't forget that soviet Russia gave 300million dollar loan to China at its most difficult time .Sure there have been ups and downs in Sino - Russian history through out the period. I am well aware of Sino- Russian war. The Russian doctor I met on Antarctica expedition had served in Sino-Russian war . Yet to deny the help given by Russia at China's most critical period will be ungratefulness on part of China.
If Russia had been China's enemy why should've it made its launch vehicle available for China's mars mission. Despite the changing relations today Russia and china are working together ... my point is that even as you compete with Russia ...don't belittle their achievments ...and don't belittle whatever little help they to gave to China . For they helped you when nobody else helped !!!!

I have always conducted myself well. I watch my words ..make sure that they won't be hurtful ..Your friend said " First rate power ...my foot " . That's why I said that we should use words carefully ...again I said ..." we should " and not " you should " I implicated both of us ...by saying we should watch our words carefully ...Is there anything wrong to say so ?

I do not believe in distorting facts or spreading lies ...I say only what I know ...if I don't know I check facts ....it is possible that I may miss some facts ..it's also true I don't know all history of all countries ....

But I just said to other guy ...that it's my opinion that Russia is first rate power ...why he should be intolerant of my view or opinion ..

What industrialization? After the war, China did not attempt industrialization, Mao was experimenting with different social economics leading to the infamous "great leap forward." Any country that was communist at that time received those assistance from Russia that you mentioned, NOT just China. Becoz it was the cold war era. But when Korean war happened, where were the Russians? Our nuclear and ICBM were developed by ourselves. No key military technology were ever from Russia. To say we "owe them" in building china is as valid as saying we owe the UN and world bank for our development.

Dude, you have no idea of China history, pls refrain commenting on events that you are not well versed in. You may however rebuttal the OP in other manner if you find his words were inappropriate.

 

[Indo-guy]

What industrialization? After the war, China did not attempt industrialization, Mao was experimenting with different social economics leading to the infamous "great leap forward." Any country that was communist at that time received those assistance from Russia that you mentioned, NOT just China. Becoz it was the cold war era. But when Korean war happened, where were the Russians? Our nuclear and ICBM were developed by ourselves. No key military technology were ever from Russia.

Dude, you have no idea of China history, pls refrain commenting on events that you are not well versed in. You may however rebuttal the OP if you find his words were inappropriate.

Interesting ....Beijingwalker agrees with me about the help that Russia gave to China ...you don't ...It's ok ...
So you refuse to believe in 300 million $ loan thing....You refuse to believe that Soviets handed over Port Arthur, Dalian ( although reluctantly ) on Mao's insistence as part of Sino -Soviet friendship treaty on 1945 . You refuse to acknowledge that Soviet union ever send heavy machinery, experts to China to start industries ...

If you wish to deny these things for sake of denial ...it's upto you ...Don't tell me I am wrong ...because I find support from one of your countryman-@ Beijingwalker !

 

[SirHatesALot]

In your own language Russia can give tough fight to US with or without Nuclear weapons ....!!!

Do you even have any idea about size of non conventional weapons that Russia commands ? Go and check wikileaks ....

If at all US will lose a lot in war with Russia ...because look at the land mass of Russia ....and that of US ....
All Russian resources are spead across 12 time zones ?....do you have any idea what 12 time zones means ....

Conventional or nuclear ...in both kinds of war with US ....Russia won't lose ....

That's my view . Take it or leave it !!!

I most certainly will not take your delusional theory.

 

[Flat_Top56]

Well why should I argue with you ! Time will tell ....

keep your political system ideology aside ....If China has come this far ...it can go further irrespective of what political system Chinese people decide to adopt ( They are ok with current system- we have no right to tell them what system they need )

Who is 'we'?

I'm not telling anyone to embrace any particular political system.

Lord knows India's political system has not helped it catch-up with China, yet China's political system itself has not helped it catch up with the West. The PRC achieved independence in 1949; Taiwan's de facto sovereignty about the same time. We know which system is better.

 

[Fattyacids]

Interesting ....Beijingwalker agrees with me about the help that Russia gave to China ...you don't ...It's ok ...
So you refuse to believe in 300 million $ loan thing....You refuse to believe that Soviets handed over Port Arthur, Dalian ( although reluctantly ) on Mao's insistence as part of Sino -Soviet friendship treaty on 1945 . You refuse to acknowledge that Soviet union ever send heavy machinery, experts to China to start industries ...

If you wish to deny these things for sake of denial ...it's upto you ...Don't tell me I am wrong ...because I find support from one of your countryman-@ Beijingwalker !

I have 1.3biliion countrymen.

Where did I dispute that help russia offered? It was beginning of the cold war, russia provided those help to other communist countries, not just china. They had an ulterior motive.
So for you to say we owe it to the Russia is what I take issue with.

 

[Nike]

Who is 'we'?

I'm not telling anyone to embrace any particular political system.

Lord knows India's political system has not helped it catch-up with China, yet China's political system itself has not helped it catch up with the West. The PRC achieved independence in 1949; Taiwan's de facto sovereignty about the same time. We know which system is better.

In fact, China starting to reform their economics policies just in 1979 after Deng Xiao Ping get the power and get rid the other factions whose made China economics crumbling before in Cultural revolution under Mao and Gang of Four. Brilliantly he brings China into remarkable economics progress, is something we and all of humanities never seen before. Even the greatest Industrial Revolution in British back then in 18 to 19 century can only bring 2 to 3 percent economic growth for Britain and yet giving them economic and technological advantage over their competitor such as Germany and France.

And even the "modest" economics growth the South Korean experiencing back from 1962 era till 2002 (in which about 4 percent to 7 percent per year) can bring so much prosperity for their people and technological edge in electronic hardware and shipbuilding industries they have today. So what can you expect from China whose experiencing high economic growth (about 10 percent for almost three decades) and Quantum leap in technological achievement in which US and the west must reckon it? like it or not you must accept the truth .

 

[beijingwalker]

What industrialization? After the war, China did not attempt industrialization, Mao was experimenting with different social economics leading to the infamous "great leap forward." Any country that was communist at that time received those assistance from Russia that you mentioned, NOT just China. Becoz it was the cold war era. But when Korean war happened, where were the Russians? Our nuclear and ICBM were developed by ourselves. No key military technology were ever from Russia. To say we "owe them" in building china is as valid as saying we owe the UN and world bank for our development.

Dude, you have no idea of China history, pls refrain commenting on events that you are not well versed in. You may however rebuttal the OP in other manner if you find his words were inappropriate.

if China adopted ROC(Taiwan) or Hongkong or Singapore's style,we should've been number one economy for decades.I dont count Russia's help setting up a pro Russia government in China a credit in helping Chinese nation.

 

[Flat_Top56]

In fact, China starting to reform their economics policies just in 1979 after Deng Xiao Ping get the power and get rid the other factions whose made China economics crumbling before in Cultural revolution under Mao and Gang of Four. Brilliantly he brings China into remarkable economics progress, is something we and all of humanities never seen before. Even the greatest Industrial Revolution in British back then in 18 to 19 century can only bring 2 to 3 percent economic growth for Britain and yet giving them economic and technological advantage over their competitor such as Germany and France.

And even the "modest" economics growth the South Korean experiencing back from 1962 era till 2002 (in which about 4 percent to 7 percent per year) can bring so much prosperity for their people and technological edge in electronic hardware and shipbuilding industries they have today. So what can you expect from China whose experiencing high economic growth (about 10 percent for almost three decades) and Quantum leap in technological achievement in which US and the west must reckon it? like it or not you must accept the truth .

This was a pitiful analysis.

Why do you think that Western countries have had historically low growth rates? Because we are innately inferior to the cultural superiority of the East? Or because we were AHEAD of everyone else, and so our real GDP growth largely came from productivity increase through innovation?

The reason that South Korea, China, et. al. are growing much faster than the West is due to there having not yet fully emulated the West. Faster GDP growth in this day and age simply means taking on more of the West's technologies and knowledge, and integrating them into your economies.

Other than Japan, I have yet to see a non-Western country which has led the world into a new growth period largely through technological innovation. Will that time come for China? Maybe, maybe not, though rest assured it won't be for decades.

 

[Fattyacids]

if China adopted ROC(Taiwan) or Hongkong or Singapore's style,we should've been number one economy for decades.I dont count Russia's help setting up a pro Russia government in China a credit in helping Chinese nation.

But see what @Indo-guy said about your support. How about sending him a rebuttal, just make your stand clear.

If you wish to deny these things for sake of denial ...it's upto you ...Don't tell me I am wrong ...because I find support from one of your countryman-@ Beijingwalker !

 

[beijingwalker]

What support?I dont bother to read all previous posts in this thread

 

[Maler]

Russia is widely consiered as a country more powerful than china.Economy is just a small part of power.How many time is the economy of song bigger than mongol tribes？probably thounsands of times，but still song is the shamelessly weaker one.

Being like America is nothing more than day dreaming on your part. China don't have any teeth left to show to America as you donated most of your teeth yourself to America, when invested 3 trillion in US treasury bonds and rest will be soon plucked out by Americans, Japanese & Indian together.

India will be neither Canada nor Mexico of China, India will be next Japan for China!!!!!!!

 

[Indo-guy]

Who is 'we'?

I'm not telling anyone to embrace any particular political system.

Lord knows India's political system has not helped it catch-up with China, yet China's political system itself has not helped it catch up with the West. The PRC achieved independence in 1949; Taiwan's de facto sovereignty about the same time. We know which system is better.

Well you didn't say explicitly but you meant same thing...
India's is contend with its own pace . we are not in any race with any country So question of catching up with china does not arise ...This whole thing that India should aspire to be superpower and it should catch up China or surpass China is western ploy to pit India against China ....Decade back we were third world illiterate country of snake charmers and now suddenly we find ourselves in great company of largest and oldest democracy hymns ....No US has woken up to resurgent China and they need somebody in asia to counter the china ..that's why US have the democratic values in India ...

Hope Indian polity will not play to western tune to pit against China. We will grow but not to counter but for upliftment of our people . India don't want to catch up or be like China ....India is India ..