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Russia’s Choice: Power Balancer or China’s Canada?

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yes,they helped pulling China back from rising fast.otherwise China should've claimed the world top spot decades ago

that's your assessment . I don't agree . Nobody can pull you back and push you ahead . Countries can help you or refuse help but growing is in your hand. China started growing after Mao's rule was over.
China didn't then grow because of Mao's experimentations with china. China started going because of reforms unleashed by Deng Xiapong . Now don't blame this on Soviet Russia for not growing . Blame Mao for that ....!
 
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The reset between the Kremlin and the White House is dead.

Now, the question in Moscow is: what will replace it?

With the cancellation of President Obama’s visit here next month, it is unlikely that the president of the United States will devote much of his second term to dealing with President Putin. The White House will relegate the relationship to a second level – as seen by Friday’s meeting Washington of the two countries’ foreign and defense ministers.

Obama will not waste more time on trying to work up personal chemistry and goodwill with Putin. At his news conference Friday, the U.S. leader said of the Russian president: “I know the press likes to focus on body language, and he’s got that kind of slouch, looking like the bored kid in the back of the classroom.”

The relationship will be transactional and largely behind closed doors. Many analysts in Washington see Moscow as less useful on several fronts. With the American withdrawal, Afghanistan may become, once again, a Russian problem. The new president of Iran may decide to freeze his nation’s nuclear bomb program, for his own reasons, regardless of Russian influence. On Syria and nuclear disarmament, Russia shows little interest in cooperating with Washington.

Given that Putin may run Russia for another 5 or 10 years, he now has to decide which road to take:

Continued anti-Americanism and gluing Russia to China?

Or aspiring to the triangular, balancing position that Moscow played between Beijing and Washington in the 1970s?

The “reset” – now seen as a lost era of good feelings – was a product of the new Obama administration and the presidency of Dmitry Medvedev.

But after Putin returned to the Kremlin 15 months ago, he gave Russia a hard right turn. He jailed opposition leaders, curbed civil society, closed human rights groups, and purged the Duma to make for unanimous votes in the style of the old Supreme Soviet.

To prepare and sustain public opinion, his government launched an anti-American campaign – accusing the State Department of funding opposition rallies, closing USAID and other aid programs, banning American parents from adopting Russian orphans and, most recently, granting asylum to Edward Snowden, the fugitive leaker from the National Security Administration.

Creating a straw enemy out of the United States had an extra bonus, giving the Kremlin political cover for a $700 billion military rearmament program. (No matter that virtually all US tanks have been shipped out of Europe. No one in Moscow dares to associate the military buildup with the country that shares 3,645 kilometers in land borders with Russia).

The anti-American campaign was created largely to bolster Putin’s conservative, TV-viewing, domestic audience.

But it turns out the wrong people were listening.

According to an annual world attitudes survey commissioned by the BBC, the percent of Russians with a negative view of the United States world influence actually dropped over the last four years, from 65 percent in 2009 to 53 percent in 2013. This year, about 20 million Russians are expected to spend about $40 billion this year on travel to the West. It seems that the nation’s best educated and best paid citizens are voting with their feet, tuning out their president’s anti-West campaign.

But during almost the same period, the number of Americans classifying Russia’s world role as “mainly positive” has dropped by half – from 45 percent in 2008 to 23 percent today.

In the United States, Putin’s campaign managed to unite the editorial boards of The Wall Street Journal (conservative) and The New York Times (liberal) in writing anti-Putin editorials. The Snowden affair sparked angry comments in Congress from Republicans and Democrats alike. The favorite image was “a poke in the eye.”

Putin’s recent anti-gay legislation has stirred up a hornet’s nest of blogs, petitions and protests – all aimed at next February’s Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia.

With the cancellation of the Obama-Putin summit, Kremlin analysts now may realize they overplayed their hand. The Obama administration is pushing back.

If Kremlin analysts take the long view, they may realize that they need to rebuild relations with Washington. But doing that, takes the courage to look economic and demographic trends in the eye.

Given these sobering trends, Russia has a short window to restore its former balancing role between Washington and Beijing.

At present, the America’s $16 trillion economy is double the size of China’s $8 trillion economy. And China’s economy is four times larger than Russia’s $2 trillion economy.

Despite China’s current “slowdown” to 7.5 percent growth in the second quarter of 2013, it is still growing six times as fast as Russia’s second-quarter growth of 1.2 percent.

Conservative economists forecast that the Chinese and U.S. economies will be roughly equal in size in 10 years, around $18 trillion. If growth flattens in Russia, that would give China an economy nine times the size of Russia, its northern neighbor.

In terms of economic size, that is the same ratio seen today between the United States and its northern neighbor, Canada. The American population is also nine times the size of Canada’s – the same ratio seen today between the populations of China and Russia. The implication for Russia’s ambitions to remain an autonomous world power are clear.

On Sept. 5, Obama will travel to Russia, to the annual meeting of the G20 nations, held this year in St. Petersburg. Kremlinologists will once again study Putin’s body language at the public sessions – this time when he encounters Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Russia’s Choice: Power Balancer or China’s Canada? : By James Brooke, VOA Moscow bureau chief * : Georgia Today on the Web
The article is full of cliches of the Cold War and outright nonsense.
In essence - if Canada has so much warheads as Russia, the United States would become Canada, and Canada - United States.
Many of those who are accustomed to the situation of the 90's, when Russia voluntarily gave the U.S. half of the world do not realize that the situation has changed. Russia revives and if someone had not yet realized that he'd better think about and understand. Now Russia is booming, this was not from the time of Stalin.
A general purpose of the article - to embroil China and Russia, nothing more.
 
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that's our assessment . I don't agree . Nobody can pull you back and push you ahead . Countries can help you or refuse help but growing is in your hand. China started growing after Mao's rule was over.
China didn't then grow because of Mao's experimentations with china. China started going because of reforms unleashed by Deng Xiapong . Now don't blame this on Soviet Russia for not growing . Blame Mao for that ....!

Without Russia's “help”,Mao wouldn't be there to rule,all those sufferings of this nation probably wouldnt have happened.
 
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China is developing all of it's capabilities at a much faster rate than Russia. I think it's almost inevitable, even in the crappy political/economic form of the modern-day China, that China will surpass Russia in most military capabilities.

China's Navy is already probably superior to Russia's Navy in many ways. Russia has a total of 18 heavy surface combatants (destroyers/cruisers), and many of them are already outdated. The last Kara class is going to be retired soon, likewise with the last Kashin. The seven Udaloy I's don't even match up to the retired Spruance destroyers. All Russia has is one Kirov (Velikiy) and one Udaloy II, with the four Sovermennyy making up the remainder. It remains to be seen if the three remaining Kirov's will be recommissioned.

China surpassing Russia, well, that's the easy part. When will the 1.4 billion Chinese be able to equal the 300 million Americans carrier for carrier, transport for transport, and ballistic sub for ballistic sub?

yes,that's what I m talking about,you've got money and resources which other countries can't afford,any country can beccome US.SO the economy is everything

LOL!

Money doesn't pop out of thin air. Wealth comes from an increase in technological advancement through innovation. For poorer and less intelligent countries, it comes from emulating those that are making the new wealth-creating advances in the fields of science and technology.

If anyone could become America, then most of everyone would become America.
 
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@Indo-guy I have lost all respect for you. You have no integrity and honesty, just like your indian politicians. You all are of the same cloth, no difference.

Unlike you I won't exhort to name calling ...
I would say I beg to differ with you respectably just as I say to everybody . I don't say things so that people will like me ...or respect me ..I say things which I feel are correct . no matter if they are against my fellow Indians , Americans , Chinese or else.

I was nice and not like typical Indians till today because I said good things about China .and you agreed ....today you don't agree with me so I have become like Indian politicians . Your assessment about me is relative to your wishes ...which is fine !
I asked for specific rebuttal of points I raised , but you couldn't hence you came up with this .

Your friend agrees that Russia helped establish PRC but not China ...in same breath he says Russia pulled back china from growth...
I am shocked that people can be so ungrateful. So Russia destroyed your economy by giving men, machines, technology and 300 million $ to establish factories and not the Mao with his experimentations of socialism ...?

See we have always remained true to Russia and we remember the help Russia extended in our difficult times ... We have no qualms to face truth or ashamed to say that Russia helped us !
 
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China is developing all of it's capabilities at a much faster rate than Russia. I think it's almost inevitable, even in the crappy political/economic form of the modern-day China, that China will surpass Russia in most military capabilities.

China's Navy is already probably superior to Russia's Navy in many ways. Russia has a total of 18 heavy surface combatants (destroyers/cruisers), and many of them are already outdated. The last Kara class is going to be retired soon, likewise with the last Kashin. The seven Udaloy I's don't even match up to the retired Spruance destroyers. All Russia has is one Kirov (Velikiy) and one Udaloy II, with the four Sovermennyy making up the remainder. It remains to be seen if the three remaining Kirov's will be recommissioned.

China surpassing Russia, well, that's the easy part. When will the 1.4 billion Chinese be able to equal the 300 million Americans carrier for carrier, transport for transport, and ballistic sub for ballistic sub?

US is where we make most of our money from,our hands feed each other.
 
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yes,they helped pulling China back from rising fast.otherwise China should've claimed the world top spot decades ago

I think it is not wise to blame any other countries for your country current conditions, as an example, what happened in Indonesia is always in Indonesia people to chose whatever path they want to take, and we as a nation must take any responsibility about whatever happened in future. The China is same, you had choose cultural revolution and great leap forward path in which hinder your economic progress severely and bringing so much misfortune to Chinese people as a whole than Russia/Sovyet intervention across your border during Sino Sovyet split back in 60 and 70 decades.
 
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@Aeronaut, I suggest mon ami that you close this thread because not only is the title offensive, it gives the perception that Canada is not sovereign nation, which is disrespectful to any Canadien out there reading this so please shut this thread down or at the very least change the thread title immediately.

Thanks
 
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LOL!

Money doesn't pop out of thin air. Wealth comes from an increase in technological advancement through innovation. For poorer and less intelligent countries, it comes from emulating those that are making the new wealth-creating advances in the fields of science and technology.

If anyone could become America, then most of everyone would become America.

world powers rise and fall,no one can stay on top forever,China will make sure that you won't be there for too long.300 years ago America was still a land with nothing more than baffulos and tribesmen and see what you are now.
 
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Without Russia's “help”,Mao wouldn't be there to rule,all those sufferings of this nation probably wouldnt have happened.

So Russia propped up Mao ...and through Mao conspired to destroy China ....and in fact managed to make Mao destroy China ....???

Truth is Stalin never liked Mao ... Stalin agreed for Sino Russian Soviet treaty only reluctantly due to compulsions of international politics...
By all means Stalin hated Mao regime ....Soviets extended all help they could in terms of men . machines and money ...to rebuild Civil war torn Chinese nation dying of starvation and poverty Yes their intentions were to establish Soviet all over the world. But they didn't conspire with Mao regime on Cultural revolution. It was Mao's own making ....and now you say that soviets helped Mao conduct cultural genocide of Chinese nation ?
 
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I think it is not wise to blame any other countries for your country current conditions, as an example, what happened in Indonesia is always in Indonesia people to chose whatever path they want to take, and we as a nation must take any responsibility about whatever happened in future. The China is same, you had choose cultural revolution and great leap forward path in which hinder your economic progress severely and bringing so much misfortune to Chinese people as a whole than Russia/Sovyet intervention across your border during Sino Sovyet split back in 60 and 70 decades.

USSR was the root cause of PRC,by sending troops in China fighting Japan,they also cut Mongolia out from China's map.that's why on ROC's Chinese map,Mongolia is still part of China.
 
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US is where we make most of our money from,our hands feed each other.

Actually, the US largely feeds itself. Yes, we import products from China that would have cost much more to make here, but we could still make them nonetheless.

I don't mind trade with China, but let's be clear. Much of the wealth that China has gained in the last few decades was due to technology transfer, trade surplus with Western countries, and MNC's relocating to China and increasing economic activity over there. The United States wasn't living in 3rd world destitution before the Chinese came to our doorsteps with cheaper products than we could possibly produce under our strict regulatory and redistributionary environment.

If China were a smaller country like Japan, this wouldn't be a problem. Increased opportunities for wealth and technological innovation would come from such a development, but the smaller population would mean no new entry in the world power arena. The world would remain in balance, with no newcomer to change things drastically.

China is not the same. If she reaches the per capita levels of Western and East Asian countries, she'll have a GDP 4x that of the USA, and over 2x that of Europe + US combined. This means the ability to effectively change the world in a way that has not happened in modern history.

When the USA displaced the UK, nothing significant happened; two Western countries, largely of the same values, cultures, languages, and political and economic systems, replaced each other in an exchange that pretty much fell on deaf ears. No one noticed, until they did. China is different. She brings with it her own personal desires, different from that of the British or the Americans or any other Westerner. It will be the first time in history that a non-Western superpower takes the stage, and no one knows what's going to happen.
 
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So Russia propped up Mao ...and through Mao conspired to destroy China ....and in fact managed to make Mao destroy China ....???

Truth is Stalin never liked Mao ... Stalin agreed for Sino Russian Soviet treaty only reluctantly due to compulsions of international politics...
By all means Stalin hated Mao regime ....Soviets extended all help they could in terms of men . machines and money ...to rebuild Civil war torn Chinese nation dying of starvation and poverty ....and now you say that soviets helped Mao conduct cultural genocide of Chinese nation ?
I m saying without Russia's help,Mao couldnt be there to rule,so goes with everything else,China may embark another path like what happened in other Asian countries and regions,such as Japan,Korea,Singapore,Taiwan,Hongkong..
 
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@Aeronaut, I suggest mon ami that you close this thread because not only is the title offensive, it gives the perception that Canada is not sovereign nation, which is disrespectful to any Canadien out there reading this so please shut this thread down or at the very least change the thread title immediately.

Thanks

I agree this thread should be closed since our Canadian friend has objection to title ...atleast title should be changed otherwise
 
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Unlike you I won't exhort to name calling ...
I would say I beg to differ with you respectably just as I say to everybody . I don't say things so that people will like me ...or respect me ..I say things which I feel are correct . no matter if they are against my fellow Indians , Americans , Chinese or else.

Becoz you are being slimy.
First you claimed Beijingwalker is on your side, but he wasn't
Second you said Russia helped China, which we know refers to PRC. Now, you changed to ROC just becoz Beijinger said that.
But those assistance that you mentioned, "200 million, machines, etc" all came during PRC's time, not ROC. Now I got you, didn't I?

I was nice and not like typical Indians till today because I said good things about China .and you agreed ....today you don't agree with me so I have become like Indian politicians . Your assessment about me is relative to your wishes ...which is fine !
I asked for specific rebuttal of points I raised , but you couldn't hence you came up with this

Not because you said nice thing abt china, rather you said the realistic things. In fact you said US will still had the technological edge. And I still commended you article.

I am shocked that people can be so ungrateful. So Russia destroyed your economy by giving men, machines, technology and 300 million $ to establish factories and not the Mao with his experimentations of socialism ...?

These assistance are not different from what Russia gave to other communist countries. Coz they were fight the cold war. These are small assistance by international standard. Did they help our with our nuclear? ICBM? Korean war where were they?

See we have always remained true to Russia and we remember the help Russia extended in our difficult times ... We have no qualms to face truth or ashamed to say that Russia helped us !

Have some shame, will you? You remained true to Russia becoz they are your only source of weapons. Period. In those days, if you don't go to russia, you go to US for weapons. US was with Pakistan back there.

Save me your crap, go reflect upon your own writing. You Conveniently twist the historic facts just to suit your flawed interpretation of china history. You are just but another dodgy indian who no integrity or honesty, whatsoever.
 
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