Questions regarding PAF modernization

[hitenray09]

Couldn't resist answer d thread.. for d 1st time in my PDF stay here, im seeing a flame thread, yet logical discussion taking place..kudos.
But still to raise PAF, few friends over here overrated it..please lets be realistic..talks abt taking down Su 30mki wth sam,F16 with saab, its correct..but please b discreet..y u take Su 30 to b sitting ducks, as a member said its a truck, why to forget it itself is a mini AWAC, laced with K-100,R-27,77. it i formidable..a friend here said

But remember quantity is not only which matters.

but numbers matter.. 200 mki against 70 f-16 is overkill..and its better mki is not war tested...don't u think peace is better dan death n turmoil..irrespective of win or loss..lets enjoy d peace whilst we have it..

 

[Indos]

One question. Can the F-15 stand against the SU-30MKI?
If yes, than the F-16 too, since it can stand against the F-15 which is somehow superior to the SU-30 MKI.

During our training with US and Aussie at Darwin (Pitch Black 2012), we had a dog fight simulation, we use Su-27/30 and we won close range combat against Aussie F-18 Superhornet, but lost in BVR combat, F-18 SH has better radar so thats why.......So Sukhoi is a proven fighter, thats why we want to buy more Sukhoi but right now we seek Su-35. What I said is a leak.

We are also operating F-16 since 1990's, but it doesnt mean F-16 less powerful, actually we need heavy fighter that has longer range, considering our archipelago wide and we have ordered 24 F-16 Block 52 already. If there is a dog fight between F-16 and Su-27/30, our Air Force who know exactly what will happen.

Su-27/30 has longer range than F-16, and able to load more weapon. F-16 of course is more agile.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

During our training with US and Aussie at Darwin (Pitch Black 2012), we had a dog fight simulation, we use Su-27/30 and we won close range combat against Aussie F-18 Superhornet, but lost in BVR combat, F-18 SH has better radar so thats why.......So Sukhoi is a proven fighter, thats why we want to buy more Sukhoi but right now we seek Su-35. No official result. What I said is a leak. We are also operating F-16 since 1990's. If there is a dog fight between F-16 and Su-27/30, our Air Force who know exactly what will happen.

Su-27/30 has longer range than F-16, and able to load more weapon. F-16 of course is more agile.

We pitted older F-16 blocks against Saudis typhoons,RAF euro fighters.. N fleeced them ..


Meanwhile a lot of PAF pilots have flying hours on PLAAF su-30 MKK

 

[Rocky rock]

Couldn't resist answer d thread.. for d 1st time in my PDF stay here, im seeing a flame thread, yet logical discussion taking place..kudos.
But still to raise PAF, few friends over here overrated it..please lets be realistic..talks abt taking down Su 30mki wth sam,F16 with saab, its correct..but please b discreet..y u take Su 30 to b sitting ducks, as a member said its a truck, why to forget it itself is a mini AWAC, laced with K-100,R-27,77. it i formidable..a friend here said
but numbers matter.. 200 mki against 70 f-16 is overkill..and its better mki is not war tested...don't u think peace is better dan death n turmoil..irrespective of win or loss..lets enjoy d peace whilst we have it..

India will never use all of its mki's against pakistan.. because she also has china to confront most of indian mki's are placed to face Chinese aggression..few of them are facing towards pak with mig29 n mirages.

And yea I am not saying that pakistan could easily win air war against india but they'll be able to defend themselves. N that's what there role is..

 

[hitenray09]

India will never use all of its mki's against pakistan.. ..

Agreed..i was just saying playing nos game is waste...esp dese VS threads inflame unwanted hatred 2wards eachother..peace TC

 

[Last Samuri]

Iaf train their su30 mki with singpore f16/52 regularly as these falcons are based in India.

The mki is far superior to any standard su27/30 having tvc and Israeli jsmmers and ew suites etc.

Only su35 matches the Indian mki

 

[IrbiS]

I do not know if the FC-31 is powerful, but pakistan has good relationship with China; you may be able to get a specific version of the J-20

Chinese have banned J-20 for export like F-22. J-31 is in development right now

Su 27 ( 30, 35 etc is a marketing scam) is a good plane but nowhere near F-16 or F-15. It is not combat tested and it's avionics are trailing decades behind. Mig 29 was also bloated up to be this beast but when some western pilots flew the plane they were grossly disappointed. Su-27 is just a puffer fish.

Your assurance is not good enough. F-16 is a combat proven fighter baptised in fire, whereas Su-27 is a fantasy toy for armchair generals.

In 92, Russian pilots killed U.S F-15s with Sushkas in dogfights(Obviously, it was an exercise). It doesn't mean that F-15 is all the sudden useless or Sushka becomes unbeatable. None of both is perfect and neither is the Falcon. They all have their pros and cons. I like Western avionics but Sukhoi or Mig have better frames for aerial combat. No matter how much we know about planes, we know nothin' compared to our jet drivers. They know their machines like back of their hand and it's just one side of the picture, other side is knowing your opponents and if you don't do that without being just; it doesn't matter even if you're driving Raptor against a Fishbed.

 

[AFlover]

India will never use all of its mki's against pakistan.. because she also has china to confront most of indian mki's are placed to face Chinese aggression..few of them are facing towards pak with mig29 n mirages.

And yea I am not saying that pakistan could easily win air war against india but they'll be able to defend themselves. N that's what there role is..

My desire to know more about Airforce and very useful info that I got made me to drag the topic even farther that's why I have few more questions
First of all both the Airforces will try to shot down the force multipliers awacs & air refueling tankers now a fighter can some try to dodge the incoming missile but how will these key assets defend themselves? Can they shot down an incoming missile?
India still has an edge due to its wide area but what about PAF, pak doesn't has that depth?
I have no doubts on PAF,s abilities and skills but in this modern tech age fighting skills cant be measured or calculated through previous records, every force has made what it can, to produce best results so unless the two face each other in real combat this point (best training)should not be taken as an advantage to any Airforce.
Two things what I have learnt from this forum is that 1) PAF should reduce the quantitative gap by increasing its squarden strength e.g 35 vs 42
2) PAF must work on to procure long range fighter for deep strike.
I will also add that PAF should change its doctrine from defense force to a robust offensive force.
At last I would say peace can never be attained if the balance of power is removed b/w two countries. Power itself is a reason of peace, otherwise powerful will not let live the weaker this is what we learn from Islam
Power and submission to ALLAH

 

[Taygibay]

I can answer the first part as it is not specific by nation.

The assets you named rarely have such missiles themselves but that is not important.
The AWACS platform which has longer detection range and uses the informations from the jet fighters it controls and command ( thus known as C2 platforms ) would provide a track ( identification and firing sequence ) to the aircrafts in front of it. These would then fire their missiles to defend the whole group.

This explains why the reach of data links between fighters and C2 is so crucial with satellite transmissions ( undeterred by distance beyond even the Earth's curvature / horizon ) being the best possible option available

I hope this helps, Tay.

 

[AFlover]

I can answer the first part as it is not specific by nation.

The assets you named rarely have such missiles themselves but that is not important.
The AWACS platform which has longer detection range and uses the informations from the jet fighters it controls and command ( thus known as C2 platforms ) would provide a track ( identification and firing sequence ) to the aircrafts in front of it. These would then fire their missiles to defend the whole group.

This explains why the reach of data links between fighters and C2 is so crucial with satellite transmissions ( undeterred by distance beyond even the Earth's curvature / horizon ) being the best possible option available

I hope this helps, Tay.

Thanks yeah I got the point so it means it's almost impossible to hit an awacs since it has along with it a complete group of fighters it controls who will barely let enemy aircraft to track and hit awacs

 

[Taygibay]

Pretty much, mate!
That is why tactics evolve when new materials enter service and the tactical book gets rewritten on the basis of the new capabilities.

Of course, we could imagine a C2 platform with say 50 km range and its fighters with missiles at the same level providing roughly 100 km protection overall. If this was true, a fighter with say 120-140 km radar view and missiles covering the same distance would then be able to down the AWACS.

In practice as you surely guessed, this does not really happen.


But as long as I came back, one way for Pakistan to protect itself despite the smaller size of the country vs India could well be to have efficient ground radars ( some even exist that can track stealthy ACs ) that reach further out into your neighbor than the airborne ones.
This provides advance warning too? You'll have to ask a Pakistani expert to tell you which type you own for details, sorry for lacking the exact informations on that.
Of course, they have to be protected for the enemy will always target them first and foremost.

Tay.

 

[AFlover]

Pretty much, mate!
That is why tactics evolve when new materials enter service and the tactical book gets rewritten on the basis of the new capabilities.

Of course, we could imagine a C2 platform with say 50 km range and its fighters with missiles at the same level providing roughly 100 km protection overall. If this was true, a fighter with say 120-140 km radar view and missiles covering the same distance would then be able to down the AWACS.

In practice as you surely guessed, this does not really happen.


But as long as I came back, one way for Pakistan to protect itself despite the smaller size of the country vs India could well be to have efficient ground radars ( some even exist that can track stealthy ACs ) that reach further out into your neighbor than the airborne ones.
This provides advance warning too? You'll have to ask a Pakistani expert to tell you which type you own for details, sorry for lacking the exact informations on that.
Of course, they have to be protected for the enemy will always target them first and foremost.

Tay.

Thanks dear for explaination

 

[IrbiS]

Pretty much, mate!
That is why tactics evolve when new materials enter service and the tactical book gets rewritten on the basis of the new capabilities.

Of course, we could imagine a C2 platform with say 50 km range and its fighters with missiles at the same level providing roughly 100 km protection overall. If this was true, a fighter with say 120-140 km radar view and missiles covering the same distance would then be able to down the AWACS.

In practice as you surely guessed, this does not really happen.


But as long as I came back, one way for Pakistan to protect itself despite the smaller size of the country vs India could well be to have efficient ground radars ( some even exist that can track stealthy ACs ) that reach further out into your neighbor than the airborne ones.
This provides advance warning too? You'll have to ask a Pakistani expert to tell you which type you own for details, sorry for lacking the exact informations on that.
Of course, they have to be protected for the enemy will always target them first and foremost.

Tay.

TPS-77 is the top end

 

[Danish saleem]

I have a question for my Pakistani friend.

I do not know much your army. I would like to know why the pakistant not buy the F-15? it is the American who refuses? .

because India will deploy su-30, burst and su-t50. pakistan will soon exceed in quality and quantity. the F-16 will not make the weight.

consider you to order the CF-31? , rafale? , Pakfa? F-15? eurofighter?

Sister,

PAF already decided in mid 90's, that they will not use double engine jets any more, remember Pakistan used F-6's and A-5c's in large numbers.
So in the PAF's modernization Program me 2019, its clearly stated that PAF will operate single engine, jets, which are easily maintainable, in any situation.

So sis, u will not witness any Fighter jet with double Engine jets, for Next 5 to 10 years.

 

[IrbiS]

Sister,

PAF already decided in mid 90's, that they will not use double engine jets any more, remember Pakistan used F-6's and A-5c's in large numbers.
So in the PAF's modernization Program me 2019, its clearly stated that PAF will operate single engine, jets, which are easily maintainable, in any situation.

So sis, u will not witness any Fighter jet with double Engine jets, for Next 5 to 10 years.

BTW PAF scrapped AFFDP-19. Last Air Chief stated that they haven't received a single penny for program since 2007