Questions regarding PAF modernization

[Danish saleem]

BTW PAF scrapped AFFDP-19. Last Air Chief stated that they haven't received a single penny for program since 2007

i not said that Program is under progress or not, but my point is PAF not thinking to have double engine Jets in their inventory any More.

 

[MastanKhan]

Su30mki is superior to anything in paf today.

Only the f16,come close to the mki.

The radar the aoa range weapons load and ew suites are outstanding . Tvc gives mki advantages over paf that just can't be replicated by falcons or thunders .

Paf has not found a real answer to mki even today

Hi,

Please---if you could be kind enough to explain the advantage of TVC----and at what speed.

 

[Danish saleem]

Hi,

Please---if you could be kind enough to explain the advantage of TVC----and at what speed.

Brother,

The biggest Air Force in the World USA lost its war against Taliban in Afghanistan, remember Taliban's not have any Air Force.
The most Modern Air force of 70's and 80's lost its war in Afghanistan.

My point is , if some one decided to fight till death , then no one able to win against him.

If we Pakistan's decided that we have to fight, till our last blood, then u all have to leave the sub continent.

 

[IrbiS]

Two things what I have learnt from this forum is that 1) PAF should reduce the quantitative gap by increasing its squarden strength e.g 35 vs 42

2) PAF must work on to procure long range fighter for deep strike.

I will also add that PAF should change its doctrine from defense force to a robust offensive force.
At last I would say peace can never be attained if the balance of power is removed b/w two countries. Power itself is a reason of peace, otherwise powerful will not let live the weaker this is what we learn from Islam
Power and submission to ALLAH

I love your enthusiasm. You want our defence to be second to none, everyone would want that. But we don't need 35 fast jet squadrons just to say that we match Indians in numbers. You should check our numbers in 65 war too.

Aerial refueling and long range weapons are enough for range. And if you consider the size of our CHAADAR, you should consider these enough plus we don't have any global ambition or that money to field a large AF also considering that over 20 million kids are out of school.

And if everything deteriorates in the course of battle, why do you think we're sitting on nukes?

 

[MastanKhan]

Brother,

The biggest Air Force in the World USA lost its war against Taliban in Afghanistan, remember Taliban's not have any Air Force.
The most Modern Air force of 70's and 80's lost its war in Afghanistan.

My point is , if some one decided to fight till death , then no one able to win against him.

If we Pakistan's decided that we have to fight, till our last blood, then u all have to leave the sub continent.

Sir,

Welcome to the board-----even though many a times I have stated how the U S left with their tails between their legs---but let us not dwell on the defeat too much. There are over a million dead afghans.

Here is what has changed in the world in the last 25 years----American military is ready to kill as many who want to die----and they will do it without prejudice---even if they have to wipe out whole population centers----.

They have overcome the belief that you cannot defeat those who want to die---to switched it over to kill them all if that is what they desire----if they want to meet their maker---then they will make it fast and hasty---.

I don't think that you knew about this new mindset.

 

[Danish saleem]

Sir,

Welcome to the board-----even though many a times I have stated how the U S left with their tails between their legs---but let us not dwell on the defeat too much. There are over a million dead afghans.

Here is what has changed in the world in the last 25 years----American military is ready to kill as many who want to die----and they will do it without prejudice---even if they have to wipe out whole population centers----.

They have overcome the belief that you cannot defeat those who want to die---to switched it over to kill them all if that is what they desire----if they want to meet their maker---then they will make it fast and hasty---.

I don't think that you knew about this new mindset.

Brother,

this is not a new Mindset, read history, its history of 2000 years, these Catholics and Jews always killed innocent, during and post war to create their terror on other forces.

Few Examples for you,

1. 1st World War,
2. 2nd World War,
3. Vitenam War,
4. Iraq War 1 and 2,

this are the examples of recent history,
and if u will say i will quote u more examples from history, how they kill innocent civilian, for their Wars.

 

[The SC]

Sir,

Welcome to the board-----even though many a times I have stated how the U S left with their tails between their legs---but let us not dwell on the defeat too much. There are over a million dead afghans.

Here is what has changed in the world in the last 25 years----American military is ready to kill as many who want to die----and they will do it without prejudice---even if they have to wipe out whole population centers----.

They have overcome the belief that you cannot defeat those who want to die---to switched it over to kill them all if that is what they desire----if they want to meet their maker---then they will make it fast and hasty---.

I don't think that you knew about this new mindset.

Dummies, have you ever had a look at Iraqi snipers, they have decided to die, but not hunted like rabbits. Actually the Americans got hunted like rabbits and had no choice but leave Iraq _well, at least , their boots on the ground_ who has started getting heavy casualties day in day out!

 

[The SC]

Hi,

That is the wrong use of word "Dummies"---does not apply in case----because it is a matter of experience and a different point of view----.

It was used in your case because you like to strut around knowing everything but don't know diddley---.

And as for Americans being hunted in Iraq---about a million and a half Iraqis dead-----their historical museums destroyed for ever----their libraries holding treasures of knowledge destroyed----their whole national infra structure destroyed---their heritage destroyed----a complete part of their civilization destroyed---a nation left in total chaos on the level of Somalia---. Many a land useless because of the presence of depleted uranium---.

But to top it off---the rape of their women and of their children---those are somethings the Iraqis will never be able to forget.

Now---supposedly---if Allah bestows this hunt on your family and tribe and near and dear ones in the same manner as the Iraqis---what do you say to that----.




Hi,

You don't get it---and that is fine-----. Enjoy the forum.

I see sir, you like to argue about menial things all over the place and argue with what ifs in the past, so I take your post as some kind of projection of your inner menial self.

Can you read Chinese or you know "diddely"? How low can one get?

What happened to Iraq was a world war against a nation that was split thinking it was getting rid of a dictator. That is why they have looted the palaces and welcomed the Americans at first. They thought it was a matter of days or months for the Americans to leave.
When the Iraqi people found out the truth behind the invasion, they started to fight the most powerful military on earth with world war too carbines at first, and than as more joined the fight, some Kalashnikov and RPGs. It it is quite simple to understand why they have lost so many people, it is a populace (the Iraqi one) taking on and fighting against the most powerfull and sophisticated armies of the world...on their own with sacrifices as you mentioned, but rape I am not sure of, their were 2 or 3 cases talked about in the media but it is far beyond what you mean by war rape rates as in WW2 by the Germans and than by the Soviets of millions of women.
That was my family you were talking about, and I am proud of them. they are far from what you depict Iraq as, they are getting up on their feet again and mainly free from any occupation and still oil rich too...
I was talking about the Americans taking causalities day in and day out all over Irak in the few last years before their departure. Everyone knows from history that they pack and leave as soon as they start taking too many heavy death tolls.

 

[Tomyris]

India will never use all of its mki's against pakistan.. because she also has china to confront most of indian mki's are placed to face Chinese aggression..few of them are facing towards pak with mig29 n mirages.

And yea I am not saying that pakistan could easily win air war against india but they'll be able to defend themselves. N that's what there role is..

One question. Can the F-15 stand against the SU-30MKI?
If yes, than the F-16 too, since it can stand against the F-15 which is somehow superior to the SU-30 MKI.

no, not forgotten that during the Indian MMRCA the su-30MKI defeated the American F-16

a defense based on the F-16 will never overcome the air power of India.
Burst pakfa and su-30 is a formidable and extremely powerful weapon, pakistan has no chance


@ Depent what his version, the Su-30 and an aerial superiority fighter like the F-15. the F-16 is used for the bombing instead of the F-4. and it will replace the F-35. tandit that the F-15 will replace the F-22 will be the aerial superiority fighter of the US.
there is a huge diference between the two.

selons me pakistan will have bought su-35. it is an excelent hunter will be even more formidable than the SU-30 and F-15. it possesses the equipment G5.

with the missile R-77 M1 / E (160 to 200 km of range) and are powerful radar, it will offer the advantage has any army

 

[AFlover]

I love your enthusiasm. You want our defence to be second to none, everyone would want that. But we don't need 35 fast jet squadrons just to say that we match Indians in numbers. You should check our numbers in 65 war too.

Aerial refueling and long range weapons are enough for range. And if you consider the size of our CHAADAR, you should consider these enough plus we don't have any global ambition or that money to field a large AF also considering that over 20 million kids are out of school.

And if everything deteriorates in the course of battle, why do you think we're sitting on nukes?

Thanks for reply the world is changing dramatically fast, world politics is moving towards making news alliances and pak has its own significance and role in the region. Somehow we will be dragged into a two front war in the coming times, every country is playing its cards.
I know we have weak economy, low literacy rate and corrupt govts need money in education health and industry but the first thing we see is the sovereignty and defense. My concern is we should do more than maintaining a minimum deterrence to become an offensive force in the region that can tilt the balance more towards us by increasing fire power especially Airforce and active army divisions that's why I always like to increase the squardens and army divisions to permanently stationed at west border as well. I know we r trying these days to establish better relations but we never know what will happen after current afghan govt

 

[The SC]

no, not forgotten that during the Indian MMRCA the su-30MKI defeated the American F-16

a defense based on the F-16 will never overcome the air power of India.
Burst pakfa and su-30 is a formidable and extremely powerful weapon, pakistan has no chance


@ Depent what his version, the Su-30 and an aerial superiority fighter like the F-15. the F-16 is used for the bombing instead of the F-4. and it will replace the F-35. tandit that the F-15 will replace the F-22 will be the aerial superiority fighter of the US.
there is a huge diference between the two.

selons me pakistan will have bought su-35. it is an excelent hunter will be even more formidable than the SU-30 and F-15. it possesses the equipment G5.

with the missile R-77 M1 / E (160 to 200 km of range) and are powerful radar, it will offer the advantage has any army

TheBVR capable Mig-29 too could beat the F-16 sometimes when it did not have the BVR capability, now is a different story.
The SU-30 is a formiibale machine but never forget that the recent F-16s are extraordinary machines.
If they can take on one of the most sophisticated modern warplane like the F-15, they can also take on the SU-30.
Do not forget that the F-16 is relatively small and very hard to detect until it closes in and than it is very efficient in close air combat and WVR, but with BVR missiles it is still more so, its RCS is very low compared to the SU-30. Those are very potent advantages for the F-16s. While the SU-30 have other obvious advantages as in RADAR, and speed.

 

[Rocky rock]

no, not forgotten that during the Indian MMRCA the su-30MKI defeated the American F-16

a defense based on the F-16 will never overcome the air power of India.
Burst pakfa and su-30 is a formidable and extremely powerful weapon, pakistan has no chance


@ Depent what his version, the Su-30 and an aerial superiority fighter like the F-15. the F-16 is used for the bombing instead of the F-4. and it will replace the F-35. tandit that the F-15 will replace the F-22 will be the aerial superiority fighter of the US.
there is a huge diference between the two.

selons me pakistan will have bought su-35. it is an excelent hunter will be even more formidable than the SU-30 and F-15. it possesses the equipment G5.

with the missile R-77 M1 / E (160 to 200 km of range) and are powerful radar, it will offer the advantage has any army

where is your reply on my quoted message..? or you have done it accidentally?

 

[Last Samuri]

The f16 is a great checkmate mki.

But is outnumbered massively by su30mki and the falcons will be starved of spares by USA who will not supply paf to fight their ally and new friend India

That is the main issues that f16 have in paf.

Otherwise a brilliant fighter

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sir,

Welcome to the board-----even though many a times I have stated how the U S left with their tails between their legs---but let us not dwell on the defeat too much. There are over a million dead afghans.

Here is what has changed in the world in the last 25 years----American military is ready to kill as many who want to die----and they will do it without prejudice---even if they have to wipe out whole population centers----.

They have overcome the belief that you cannot defeat those who want to die---to switched it over to kill them all if that is what they desire----if they want to meet their maker---then they will make it fast and hasty---.

I don't think that you knew about this new mindset.

you see my dear that I dont often post here
because I dont have anything extra to add in the aviation section because my knowledge is lacking so instead of pretending and embarrassing myself I quietly read some good posts and silently cringe on some diabolical comparisons and arguments that are a travesty towards the art of air war and air force combat protocols.

you are one resilient and one of a kind member who time and time again not only read these posts but then spend time on explaining them. the trail of some posts are not only off topic but are so lame that they can be seen as an insult to common sense.

I fail to see the relevance of Taliban, Vietnam and king Kong brought in by some rising stars here when the subject is modernising PAF.
May the god have mercy on their souls

 

[Tomyris]

TheBVR capable Mig-29 too could beat the F-16 sometimes when it did not have the BVR capability, now is a different story.
The SU-30 is a formiibale machine but never forget that the recent F-16s are extraordinary machines.
If they can take on one of the most sophisticated modern warplane like the F-15, they can also take on the SU-30.
Do not forget that the F-16 is relatively small and very hard to detect until it closes in and than it is very efficient in close air combat and WVR, but with BVR missiles it is still more so, its RCS is very low compared to the SU-30. Those are very potent advantages for the F-16s. While the SU-30 have other obvious advantages as in RADAR, and speed.

where is your reply on my quoted message..? or you have done it accidentally?

calm, I sleep.

I have already explained, the SU-30 has a clear advantage it is an aerial superiority fighter, but he will not be alone in mission, india order will rafale, and a duet burst-su-30 is superuissant, and the F-16 has no chance.Sansa forget pakfa, india is ordered "250 SU-30, 126 rafale and between 150 to 200 PAKFA. 3 and all there are higher than the F-16.su-30 can be used as mini AWACS, and engage in combat at a distance, and will rafale if accompanied by the dog fight. and rafale and superior to the F-16.for the Indian MMRCA, burst won the big competition and the Indian SU-30MKI we beat the American F-16, everyone broke the American F-16.the JF17 and Pakistani F16 will not be able countered an Indian attack, the su-30 and PAKFA will engage in combat in the first, it will destroy a large part of your aircraft, and dog figh gust and pakfa will annihilate all will remain.