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Qatar: Talks with Pakistan over Mirage 2000-5s

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A brief report by Tactical Report, a Gulf-based security and defence publication, has claimed that Pakistan may be in talks with Qatar for the purchase of the latter’s Dassault Mirage 2000-5s. The 12 fighters (nine single seat and three dual-seat) are due to be replaced by the Dassault Rafale in the near future.

Comment and Analysis

It is incredibly unlikely that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) would be considering the Qatar Emiri Air Force (QEAF)’s Mirage 2000-5s. Granted, the PAF has shown interest in the Mirage 2000 platform a number of times in the past, coming close to even inking deals in the 1990s (cancelled as a direct result of corruption) and 2000s (dropped in favour of the Lockheed Martin F-16 Block-52+), but this platform is at its end.

The Mirage 2000 would always make for an excellent strike platform, thanks to its 6,300kg payload and nine weapon hardpoints. The QEAF’s Mirage 2000-5s and the United Arab Emirates (UAE)’s Mirage 2000-9s are also equipped with excellent radar and avionics suites, centered on the Thales RDY-2 radar. The Indian Air Force also operates a heavily modernized version of the Mirage 2000 (alongside Greece, Taiwan, Egypt, Peru and – for a limited period – Brazil).

Had the PAF procured the fighter, even in limited numbers, it would have been in possession of a credible platform it could freely equip, especially in terms of stand-off range weapons (e.g. cruise missiles). Granted, it would have been an expensive acquisition, and that too with relatively high operational costs, but the presence of a strike fighter with payload and range comparable to that of the F-16 – but without the limitations in terms of choice munitions – does not currently exist in the PAF fleet. In 2011, even the UAE was looking to sell its Mirage 2000-9s, and Pakistan was noted as a potential customer alongside Egypt and Iraq (which have since procured Rafales and F-16s, respectively).

However, the Mirage 2000 has been out of production since 2007, and existing aircraft can only be serviced using existing stockpiles of spare parts. It will not be long before cannibalization is the main method of operating a Mirage 2000 fleet, and such scarcity of spare parts will raise the fighter’s operating and maintenance costs.

Pakistan also lacks maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) infrastructure to service the Mirage 2000, which is a completely different platform from the legacy Mirage III/5 the PAF currently operates. To acquire the Mirage 2000 would mean to raise infrastructure for a dying fighter, a cost the PAF simply cannot afford, not without unlikely concessions (e.g. fighters sold for a fraction of the original price).

Finally, the news is merely secondary information. In matters regarding the PAF, the only authentic source of information is the PAF itself, which has made no statements in support of purchasing second-hand Mirage 2000/-5/-9s. At present, the PAF’s modernization plans center on the procurement of surplus F-16s from various sources (e.g. Jordan), the continued development and production of the JF-17 Thunder, and the long-term development of the next-generation fighter platform, which will begin replacing the F-16s and early model JF-17s.

Source: QUWA.ORG
yeh cheez .............. yehi tou main keh raha hun tab sy ........ bachy ki koi sunta hi nai
 
If we are getting these aircraft in 6 months time or maybe a year only then it makes sense otherwise if we get them after 3 years or 4 then i must have strong reservations on the mental ability of PAF. only 12 jets does not make things easy but difficult in terms of maintenance and operations.. even 2 squadrons are not enough...minimum should not be less then 50 jets. France do have some spare jets which are in good conditions dont know about the price.
 
@MastanKhan Just one thing you always make Paf a money hungry organisation in your post please do enlighten me lets just assume there was money why would Paf would donate the money when they could have just spent it themselves and bought new jets because i dont understand why would they do a selfless act from a organisation which don't care any one
For me only thing is for the sake of there country
And you can call me whatever i want dont care
Because it your usual rant against paf which is in every single post

Sir,

It was not selfless act----. If they would have bpought the 72 F16's---the project for the JF17 would have been bundled out---.

The statements about donating the money for the aircraft are in the public domain.
 
If we are getting these aircraft in 6 months time or maybe a year only then it makes sense otherwise if we get them after 3 years or 4 then i must have strong reservations on the mental ability of PAF. only 12 jets does not make things easy but difficult in terms of maintenance and operations.. even 2 squadrons are not enough...minimum should not be less then 50 jets. France do have some spare jets which are in good conditions dont know about the price.
Newer aircraft acquisitions dont work this quickly. It will take a lot of time before this happens if it happens at all.
A
 
Sir,

It was not selfless act----. If they would have bpought the 72 F16's---the project for the JF17 would have been bundled out---.

The statements about donating the money for the aircraft are in the public domain.
No matter what paf would have never abounded this project this project is the backbone of current and future paf for next atleast 30 to 40 years now if they used that money on thunder where is that superior hi end product which would have used the investment of 72 f16s
So you mean paf donated nothing to public it was just a hoax ?
 
Hi,

You have not answered the question---your mother or your baby daughter is dying of cancer---. Medicine is available and you have to pay an outrageous price for their survival---you have the money to pay---.

Write your decision---and that is your answer---.

About pakistan getting the weapons and all the goodies---if it had bought those weapons in a timely manner---there would be no issues---.

Rome was not built in a day---and neither are the military's acquisitions.

When you do not have surplus funds---then each and everything has to be procured in a timely manner and whatever hurdles are placed in the way have to be overcome---.

I am pretty sure that an astute and intelligent person like you would be doing as I suggest in your daily and everyday life---you started saving for retirement when you started working---if there was any hurdles that you came across---you paid Bakhsheesh / bribes to take care of the personal business---maybe if your children got sick---you paid too much for that one medicine that the doctor asked for---maybe you paid too much fees to the doctor as well.

The problem with you pakistanis is---that as long as it is for your welfare---you are fine with all the criminal and immoral activity---but when it comes to the security dealings of the nation---you become ' saints ' you become Pirs---you act like God's chosen ones---c'mon son---you are the most corrupt country in the world---.

You also have selective hearing and selective reading abilities like @Darth Vader----. I guess like you---he did not know that PAF donated the money for around 72 F16's for the earthquake relief fund in 2005---and that money got looted and plundered by those in earthquake relief.

Most don't know that there were funds put aside every year to procure an aircraft once the sanctions came off---.

The money for the 40 mirages was also available during Zardaris regime----that is why the French were ready to deal and ready for the finals docs to be signed---.

You superstar and @Darth Vader superstar would need to understand that no nation gets to sign the deal if the funds are not shown---.

The funds for the Gripen were also available---that is why paf tested it for 2 years---they had to show the swedes the available money to be allowed anywhere near the aircraft.

The funds for the Rafale were also avaiable when pakistan tested it for 1 year---pakistan had to show the french the funds to be given access to the aircraft.

It is only that the french got the whiff that the paks were not serious in buying their product but snooping around for he future JF17---the swedes found that out too late---and the Paf ACM lied that we could not absorb that technology---what a B S was that.

Paf did not buy those aircraft because Paf had assessed that there was no threat of hostilities any more from India---so they sold Gen Mushharaf on that idea-.

Gen Musharraf believed the Paf for awhile---but then he caught onto the Paf's lies and deceit and deception of the Paf---. When he found out that the Paf has chosen cowardice over bravery--defensive over offensive---he on his own ordered and signed a deal for 36 J10's---also cancelled the 4 swedish awacs and bought 4 chinese awacs.

Musharraf found that the Paf had no intentions anymore to be a dominant strike force---but wanted to get into the business of selling aircraft.

For that reason---the Paf sabotaged the procurement of the Rafale, Gripen and then the F16---..

Because if none of these aircraft were procured---there will be nothing left but to pursue the JF17---and pursue they did---.

And Paf officers will have lucrative jobs and contracts---.

I love it when people like you wake up from their slumber and want to participate---.

Welcome again and be productive---think out of the box---don't tow the company line---. Have vision and understand the IMPORTANCE OF TIME when talking about things dealing with military and military acquisitions.

Everything related to military is a ' slave ' to the time.

You super studs---why do you think that Paf is not going for the J10 B's and C's---it is not because they perform poor---it is for the reason that army forced it upon them---and paf has to prove that they are not upto par and that is why they won't get it---.

But if they got it---then some pilots would agree that the J10 is a deadly aircraft while others may tow the line of their bosses---and that would hurt the egos of the air force general staff---once their lies became public knowledge.



Hi,

What my pakistani brethren are not understanding about the procurement is the timeline----.

You can compare a sqdrn of aircraft to an army disivion---pretty similar in force projection.

In real terms---it takes from 3 to 5 years to get an army division ready for frontline battle standards.

So---when Paf got the Jprdanian F16's fully functional and ready---it increased their power projection by an active and fully functional battle ready army division within the 60 days it took to from getting the first to the 14th or 18th aircraft from Jordan.

If Paf were to buy them new---it would have taken them 3 to 5 years to get them all. So---the expanded time became compressed----.

It would have been like at Waterloo---Napoeleone would have found an extra fully functional fighting division of cavalry ready to charge the english.

It is in the same context---if 9 M2k5's were available or 60 were available.

Finding and getting 60 M2k5's would be like finding a 3 to 5 hidden armored corps that suddenly became available to you out of thin air---it would be as if Allah has sent Angels.

If there are funds available---and I have a choice if they were to be invested in 60 M2K5's / F16's or the JF 17-----. My first choice would be M2k5---second choice would be the F16---.

The reason being the ' force multiplier ' they would bring in an instant. The force mutliplier would bring somewhat stability in the arena---this stability or the promise of stability is the most important factor for pakistan.

In the meantime---Paf can follow up on its pet project the JF17---.

You realy do talk a load of crap don't you?
Running an airforce has got what to do with medicine for a dying baby?
'You Pakistanis' - so what are you if you're not Pakistani? Let me guess - American? You might want to check with 'your' next President before you confirm that one.
Refering to other members as 'son' 'super studs' etc due to what can only be some personal deficencies of yours does not add any weight to your nonesensical jibberish.
On the one hand you call Pakistan the most corrupt country in the world - on the other your 'argument' is that the PAF officials who blocked the Mirage 2000 deal due to the huge corruption involved were traitors and the true enemies of Pakistan. Bravo - with such an obviously mentaly challenged argument as that, who could possibly have the time or patience to argue against you.
It's a mute point anyway as Pakistan never had the cash to pay for them - despite nonesense from people like you that they should have bought 60 of X and 80 of Y, X years ago.
 
No matter what paf would have never abounded this project this project is the backbone of current and future paf for next atleast 30 to 40 years now if they used that money on thunder where is that superior hi end product which would have used the investment of 72 f16s
So you mean paf donated nothing to public it was just a hoax ?

Sir,

The funds for the F16's were in BILLIONS---the funds for the JF17 were 300-400 million.

You realy do talk a load of crap don't you?
Running an airforce has got what to do with medicine for a dying baby?
'You Pakistanis' - so what are you if you're not Pakistani? Let me guess - American? You might want to check with 'your' next President before you confirm that one.
.

Hi,

I am pakistani by name now---.

If not a baby then how about mother---that is what I started with---you know people call their country mother---motheland---Maaa---Dharti Maaa----ever heard that---.

The example of a baby is something to cherish and something that is extremely important to you---is your country important to you the one that you talk big about!

If you cannot understand that concept---it is your problem problems---. Not mine.

In your introduction---you can add your age----that will solve the concern.
 
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Actually PAF did,t cancell 55_75 F16 deal. It was a surprise for them when Musharraf cancelled it and made it to 18 and while canceling sweedish awacs deal of 7 to 4, he asked PAF to "listen to their chinease friends".
 
@MastanKhan Sir the funds we moved for earth quake relief is a fact and frankly there was no other option at that time. I have been to the area immediately after earthquake, i know how bad the situation actually was. As for funds being eaten up by relief workers etc, sir that was not PAF's job to prevent that from happening. The decision was made by the government and all things considered, it was the right decision at that time. We cannot judge a decisions made in 2008 based on the things we know now in 2016.

I am never been one how take PAF or our military as angels but i wont criticize them for anything and everything they do. I have talked to many concerned people, have shared this here on the forum as well that the JF17 project is something with implications that are to out grown the plane itself. I just hope that we properly pursue it in the future and keep working on it as i have seen things going foul in the past (as in case of Al-khalid) I hope and am confident that this wont be the case with JF17. Let us hope for the best and not deny that the promise is there.
 
Any source ?
That paf just ate billions of funds and didnt do anything

Sir,

It is public news---. I am not being rude---you need to use your brains when reading and replying---. I stated that the Paf donated those funds in earthquake relief---. The air marshall is on record to make these statements---.

I mean to say---there is a limit to the level of idiocy---you talk about professional discussions on a military related forum---but cannot grasp simple information.
 
Sir,

It is public news---. I am not being rude---you need to use your brains when reading and replying---. I stated that the Paf donated those funds in earthquake relief---. The air marshall is on record to make these statements---.

I mean to say---there is a limit to the level of idiocy---you talk about professional discussions on a military related forum---but cannot grasp simple information.

Em asking you. Since you brought this up and your statements doesnt make any sense

1 if paf had billions they only invested just few millions in thunder where is the rest of amount

Now how much of the amount was donated
And since you brought up that that those funds where miss used by gov or relic workers than how can you blame paf

And if paf didnt donate all of its money and invested partial amount of money in thunder program where is the rest of it
Please enlighten me with all knowing source of yours
 
Em asking you. Since you brought this up and your statements doesnt make any sense

1 if paf had billions they only invested just few millions in thunder where is the rest of amount

Now how much of the amount was donated
And since you brought up that that those funds where miss used by gov or relic workers than how can you blame paf

And if paf didnt donate all of its money and invested partial amount of money in thunder program where is the rest of it
Please enlighten me with all knowing source of yours

You'll only be bullied by repetitive nonsense trying to get that.
 
i think out JFT are now mostly comparable or little inferior to mirage 2000..also with the enxt eyar A2A variant that might be better than the mirage 2000 for sure.

so it will be a very stupid step if taken

i doubt the mirages offer any capability that the jft dont offer already , secondly paf is indigenizing alongwith reducing the number of fighter types


Some dream expectations by tge senior members 5 years back regarding jf-17 development and need of mirage for PAF. Compare current situation of jf-17 and viavility of its getting it's teeth in time or should it prudent to induct some mirage as stop gap if f-16 is not available due to US reluctance.
 
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