Qatar: Talks with Pakistan over Mirage 2000-5s

[TOPGUN]

So we are getting Mirages from France now ?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Mirage 2000-5s can help train new pilots to fight against Mirage 2000-5s Jets in Top Gunnah school

Good training Simulation 3-4 Mirage 2000-5s vs JF17 thunder or F-16 c/d

Top Gannah

Creates stern , rugged pilots tough from outside and good morals inside
Top GANNAH pilots

 

[Danish saleem]

someone post the spec of Mirage 2000-5, which were for sale by Qatar.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Will Russia even sell SU-35s to you? Some pakistanis are talking about F-35s and SU-35s like they are able to acquire those jets if they want...

It may be an issue for now. But with Pakistan's growing economy and market (Bloomberg has been all over Pakistani markets returns for the past few weeks), selling the F-35 may not be an issue. I've seen LM's initial marketing material projecting its future customer (4 years ago) and Pakisan was on it and listed as a potential customer around 2025. With cash available and peace with India and a powerful economy, I think it might happen. Its like saying, will the US say no to Singapore or Malaysia (economies with cash)?

As Pakistan becomes more lucrative for American businesses, the US government's stance will change towards Pakistan and it would want to maintain good relationships with both, India and Pakistan. The position is the same right now, but the tilt is towards India due to trade partnership.

 

[Malik Alashter]

M2K is not a good dog fighter and It is just a bomber and only carry Weight Max: 17000 kg after 10 years you will throw These Jet.
and again expire issue

YES I agree we can't waste money we don't need them for Taliban there is no Taliban controlled area in our country we need Jets for our birth enemies We know our enemies have third class pilots but they have heavy weight Jets.

Really so if the EUA decide to give you all it's arsenal of the M2K while you them the same price you pay for the JS-17 do take the JF-17 or the M2K I'd go blindly for the French one since your PAF seeking the same even less electronic suite from France for their JF-17.

This is from Dassault.

© Dassault Aviation – F. Robineau

The most advanced version in the Mirage 2000 familly
The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is a new-generation advanced multirole combat aircraft, descending from the Mirage 2000 lineage, already proven under operational conditions with the air forces of eight countries.

Operational experience, especially within multinational forces, has shown the need for an increased fuel capacity and firepower. This requirement has been fulfilled with the introduction of the Mirage 2000-5 in operational service in 1997.

As new markets were conquered by the Mirage 2000-5, the users of the earlier versions became interested in the aircraft new capabilities.
New Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 aircraft complete existing fleets, and operational aircraft are modernised to gain the same operational capabilities.

The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 incorporates new technologies and functionalities often derived from the experience gained in the RAFALE aircraft development.
The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is ideally suited to interception and air superiority missions.

The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is entirely suited to high-altitude interception operations at high supersonic speeds (Mach 2.2 at 50,000ft) thanks to its aerodynamic qualities and its engine, thus allowing it to counter high-performance hostiles. Thanks to a new external load configuration, with air-to-air missiles fitted on the side fuselage hardpoints, the new aircraft offers a much-enhanced firepower.

With these new characteristics, the Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 offers outstanding multirole capabilities and ranks among the best in its category, as demonstrated by its success on the export market.
The Mirage 2000-9, ordered by the United Arab Emirates, belongs to the family of the new Mirage 2000-5 Mk2, purchased by Greece.

 

[Raider 21]

Mirage 2000s from Qatar will only be useful by complementing them with other Mirage 2000 aircraft. UAE deal for Mirage 2000-9 is not going to happen most likely, the Peruvian AF and the Egyptian AF should be looked at as they're in the mood of selling their Mirage 2000s......

 

[Centurion2016]

No Air Force is selling such advanced war planes as yet.

This is far superior combat plane to second hand used Falcons paf is buying from
Jordan.


The cost will be massive

 

[TAC]

Hi,

By reading this above post---trhe readers can very easily determine who the real enemy of pakistan was----.

Specially the younger generation---see for your self---this supposedly too honest of an officer an Air Commodore was the true saboteur of this deal---sabotaged by our very own---.

" Mein Bara Sacha Hoon---Mein Bara Eemandar Hoon---". Who needs enemies when you have your own do that to you---those who you trusted your life and the security of the state----they deceive you like that---.

Every sane country in the world will block / cancel a defence deal where big kickbacks are involved. Only in Pakistan will those who block such a corrupt deal be called the 'real enemy' of Pakistan by those who claim to be patriots. The 'younger generation' are hopefully not so stupid to follow this type of mind bogglingly idiotic thought process.

On a seperate point, for all those who keep coming out with crap like Pakistan should have bought X Y Z and outflanked India by doing so and by not doing so have been 'caught with their pants down' etc etc-- you need a very serious reality check. Pakistan could not and cannot afford all the stuff you keep saying they should have bought years ago. Read up on the actual economic data from the periods you are refering to before you comment. Even for F-16 upgrades they had to fight hard for U.S financial support. Even for JF-17 they got China to fund half the development. With extremely limited funds they have done a comendable job in keeping a far bigger and far better funded enemy at bay.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

A brief report by Tactical Report, a Gulf-based security and defence publication, has claimed that Pakistan may be in talks with Qatar for the purchase of the latter’s Dassault Mirage 2000-5s. The 12 fighters (nine single seat and three dual-seat) are due to be replaced by the Dassault Rafale in the near future.

Comment and Analysis

It is incredibly unlikely that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) would be considering the Qatar Emiri Air Force (QEAF)’s Mirage 2000-5s. Granted, the PAF has shown interest in the Mirage 2000 platform a number of times in the past, coming close to even inking deals in the 1990s (cancelled as a direct result of corruption) and 2000s (dropped in favour of the Lockheed Martin F-16 Block-52+), but this platform is at its end.

The Mirage 2000 would always make for an excellent strike platform, thanks to its 6,300kg payload and nine weapon hardpoints. The QEAF’s Mirage 2000-5s and the United Arab Emirates (UAE)’s Mirage 2000-9s are also equipped with excellent radar and avionics suites, centered on the Thales RDY-2 radar. The Indian Air Force also operates a heavily modernized version of the Mirage 2000 (alongside Greece, Taiwan, Egypt, Peru and – for a limited period – Brazil).

Had the PAF procured the fighter, even in limited numbers, it would have been in possession of a credible platform it could freely equip, especially in terms of stand-off range weapons (e.g. cruise missiles). Granted, it would have been an expensive acquisition, and that too with relatively high operational costs, but the presence of a strike fighter with payload and range comparable to that of the F-16 – but without the limitations in terms of choice munitions – does not currently exist in the PAF fleet. In 2011, even the UAE was looking to sell its Mirage 2000-9s, and Pakistan was noted as a potential customer alongside Egypt and Iraq (which have since procured Rafales and F-16s, respectively).

However, the Mirage 2000 has been out of production since 2007, and existing aircraft can only be serviced using existing stockpiles of spare parts. It will not be long before cannibalization is the main method of operating a Mirage 2000 fleet, and such scarcity of spare parts will raise the fighter’s operating and maintenance costs.

Pakistan also lacks maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) infrastructure to service the Mirage 2000, which is a completely different platform from the legacy Mirage III/5 the PAF currently operates. To acquire the Mirage 2000 would mean to raise infrastructure for a dying fighter, a cost the PAF simply cannot afford, not without unlikely concessions (e.g. fighters sold for a fraction of the original price).

Finally, the news is merely secondary information. In matters regarding the PAF, the only authentic source of information is the PAF itself, which has made no statements in support of purchasing second-hand Mirage 2000/-5/-9s. At present, the PAF’s modernization plans center on the procurement of surplus F-16s from various sources (e.g. Jordan), the continued development and production of the JF-17 Thunder, and the long-term development of the next-generation fighter platform, which will begin replacing the F-16s and early model JF-17s.

Source: QUWA.ORG

 

[MastanKhan]

Every sane country in the world will block / cancel a defence deal where big kickbacks are involved. Only in Pakistan will those who block such a corrupt deal be called the 'real enemy' of Pakistan by those who claim to be patriots. The 'younger generation' are hopefully not so stupid to follow this type of mind bogglingly idiotic thought process.

On a seperate point, for all those who keep coming out with crap like Pakistan should have bought X Y Z and outflanked India by doing so and by not doing so have been 'caught with their pants down' etc etc-- you need a very serious reality check. Pakistan could not and cannot afford all the stuff you keep saying they should have bought years ago. Read up on the actual economic data from the periods you are refering to before you comment. Even for F-16 upgrades they had to fight hard for U.S financial support. Even for JF-17 they got China to fund half the development. With extremely limited funds they have done a comendable job in keeping a far bigger and far better funded enemy at bay.

Hi,

You have not answered the question---your mother or your baby daughter is dying of cancer---. Medicine is available and you have to pay an outrageous price for their survival---you have the money to pay---.

Write your decision---and that is your answer---.

About pakistan getting the weapons and all the goodies---if it had bought those weapons in a timely manner---there would be no issues---.

Rome was not built in a day---and neither are the military's acquisitions.

When you do not have surplus funds---then each and everything has to be procured in a timely manner and whatever hurdles are placed in the way have to be overcome---.

I am pretty sure that an astute and intelligent person like you would be doing as I suggest in your daily and everyday life---you started saving for retirement when you started working---if there was any hurdles that you came across---you paid Bakhsheesh / bribes to take care of the personal business---maybe if your children got sick---you paid too much for that one medicine that the doctor asked for---maybe you paid too much fees to the doctor as well.

The problem with you pakistanis is---that as long as it is for your welfare---you are fine with all the criminal and immoral activity---but when it comes to the security dealings of the nation---you become ' saints ' you become Pirs---you act like God's chosen ones---c'mon son---you are the most corrupt country in the world---.

You also have selective hearing and selective reading abilities like @Darth Vader----. I guess like you---he did not know that PAF donated the money for around 72 F16's for the earthquake relief fund in 2005---and that money got looted and plundered by those in earthquake relief.

Most don't know that there were funds put aside every year to procure an aircraft once the sanctions came off---.

The money for the 40 mirages was also available during Zardaris regime----that is why the French were ready to deal and ready for the finals docs to be signed---.

You superstar and @Darth Vader superstar would need to understand that no nation gets to sign the deal if the funds are not shown---.

The funds for the Gripen were also available---that is why paf tested it for 2 years---they had to show the swedes the available money to be allowed anywhere near the aircraft.

The funds for the Rafale were also avaiable when pakistan tested it for 1 year---pakistan had to show the french the funds to be given access to the aircraft.

It is only that the french got the whiff that the paks were not serious in buying their product but snooping around for he future JF17---the swedes found that out too late---and the Paf ACM lied that we could not absorb that technology---what a B S was that.

Paf did not buy those aircraft because Paf had assessed that there was no threat of hostilities any more from India---so they sold Gen Mushharaf on that idea-.

Gen Musharraf believed the Paf for awhile---but then he caught onto the Paf's lies and deceit and deception of the Paf---. When he found out that the Paf has chosen cowardice over bravery--defensive over offensive---he on his own ordered and signed a deal for 36 J10's---also cancelled the 4 swedish awacs and bought 4 chinese awacs.

Musharraf found that the Paf had no intentions anymore to be a dominant strike force---but wanted to get into the business of selling aircraft.

For that reason---the Paf sabotaged the procurement of the Rafale, Gripen and then the F16---..

Because if none of these aircraft were procured---there will be nothing left but to pursue the JF17---and pursue they did---.

And Paf officers will have lucrative jobs and contracts---.

I love it when people like you wake up from their slumber and want to participate---.

Welcome again and be productive---think out of the box---don't tow the company line---. Have vision and understand the IMPORTANCE OF TIME when talking about things dealing with military and military acquisitions.

Everything related to military is a ' slave ' to the time.

You super studs---why do you think that Paf is not going for the J10 B's and C's---it is not because they perform poor---it is for the reason that army forced it upon them---and paf has to prove that they are not upto par and that is why they won't get it---.

But if they got it---then some pilots would agree that the J10 is a deadly aircraft while others may tow the line of their bosses---and that would hurt the egos of the air force general staff---once their lies became public knowledge.

Imagine Pakistan with 60-100 M2k 5 or 9 with it's ability to carry missions against land based and air based targets!!!

I'd think it will be a challenging air force!!.

By the way M2K isn't that behind of rafale yes rafale more advanced but the M2K still formidable fighter certainly!!!.

I wish Iraq have some strategist who go for that amount of the M2K from France as a used one and from some other countries these fighters will have another 10-15 years of service even after that they will be a great bomb truck with great ability for precision strikes.

Hi,

What my pakistani brethren are not understanding about the procurement is the timeline----.

You can compare a sqdrn of aircraft to an army disivion---pretty similar in force projection.

In real terms---it takes from 3 to 5 years to get an army division ready for frontline battle standards.

So---when Paf got the Jprdanian F16's fully functional and ready---it increased their power projection by an active and fully functional battle ready army division within the 60 days it took to from getting the first to the 14th or 18th aircraft from Jordan.

If Paf were to buy them new---it would have taken them 3 to 5 years to get them all. So---the expanded time became compressed----.

It would have been like at Waterloo---Napoeleone would have found an extra fully functional fighting division of cavalry ready to charge the english.

It is in the same context---if 9 M2k5's were available or 60 were available.

Finding and getting 60 M2k5's would be like finding a 3 to 5 hidden armored corps that suddenly became available to you out of thin air---it would be as if Allah has sent Angels.

If there are funds available---and I have a choice if they were to be invested in 60 M2K5's / F16's or the JF 17-----. My first choice would be M2k5---second choice would be the F16---.

The reason being the ' force multiplier ' they would bring in an instant. The force mutliplier would bring somewhat stability in the arena---this stability or the promise of stability is the most important factor for pakistan.

In the meantime---Paf can follow up on its pet project the JF17---.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

Really so if the EUA decide to give you all it's arsenal of the M2K while you them the same price you pay for the JS-17 do take the JF-17 or the M2K I'd go blindly for the French one since your PAF seeking the same even less electronic suite from France for their JF-17.

This is from Dassault.

© Dassault Aviation – F. Robineau

The most advanced version in the Mirage 2000 familly
The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is a new-generation advanced multirole combat aircraft, descending from the Mirage 2000 lineage, already proven under operational conditions with the air forces of eight countries.

Operational experience, especially within multinational forces, has shown the need for an increased fuel capacity and firepower. This requirement has been fulfilled with the introduction of the Mirage 2000-5 in operational service in 1997.

As new markets were conquered by the Mirage 2000-5, the users of the earlier versions became interested in the aircraft new capabilities.
New Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 aircraft complete existing fleets, and operational aircraft are modernised to gain the same operational capabilities.

The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 incorporates new technologies and functionalities often derived from the experience gained in the RAFALE aircraft development.
The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is ideally suited to interception and air superiority missions.

The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is entirely suited to high-altitude interception operations at high supersonic speeds (Mach 2.2 at 50,000ft) thanks to its aerodynamic qualities and its engine, thus allowing it to counter high-performance hostiles. Thanks to a new external load configuration, with air-to-air missiles fitted on the side fuselage hardpoints, the new aircraft offers a much-enhanced firepower.

With these new characteristics, the Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 offers outstanding multirole capabilities and ranks among the best in its category, as demonstrated by its success on the export market.
The Mirage 2000-9, ordered by the United Arab Emirates, belongs to the family of the new Mirage 2000-5 Mk2, purchased by Greece.

You are Copying My post from page 12 and Its not new generation its fourth generation jet you are copting an old story new generation is 5th generation now like f-22 f-35 PAK FA J-31 j-20 TAI TFX etc

The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is a fourth-generation advanced multirole combat aircraft, descending from the Mirage 2000 lineage, already proven under operational conditions with the air forces of eight countries.

Operational experience, especially within multinational forces, has shown the need for an increased fuel capacity and firepower. This requirement has been fulfilled with the introduction of the Mirage 2000-5 in operational service in 1997.

As new markets were conquered by the Mirage 2000-5, the users of the earlier versions became interested in the aircraft new capabilities.
New Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 aircraft complete existing fleets, and operational aircraft are modernised to gain the same operational capabilities.

The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 incorporates new technologies and functionalities often derived from the experience gained in the RAFALE aircraft development.
The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is ideally suited to interception and air superiority missions.

The Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 is entirely suited to high-altitude interception operations at high supersonic speeds (Mach 2.2 at 50,000ft) thanks to its aerodynamic qualities and its engine, thus allowing it to counter high-performance hostiles. Thanks to a new external load configuration, with air-to-air missiles fitted on the side fuselage hardpoints, the new aircraft offers a much-enhanced firepower.

With these new characteristics, the Mirage 2000-5 Mk2 offers outstanding multirole capabilities and ranks among the best in its category, as demonstrated by its success on the export market.
The Mirage 2000-9, ordered by the United Arab Emirates, belongs to the family of the new Mirage 2000-5 Mk2, purchased by Greece.

 

[Malik Alashter]

You are Copying My post from page 12 and Its not new generation its fourth generation jet you are copting an old story new generation is 5th generation now like f-22 f-35 PAK FA J-31 j-20 TAI TFX etc

No sir I went straight to dassault web page.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Bhai 1 hi baat pe kitni Thread bnao gai??

@waz Sir g merge this thread

 

[wiseone2]

Qatar and Pakistan are said to be engaged in talks since the beginning of this year over a deal for the French-made aircraft of type Mirage 2000-5 in service with the Qatari Air Force (QAF). The following 391-word report sheds more light on the subject and tells what about the talks between Qatar and Pakistan over the deal and what aircraft Qatar might purchase to replace the Mirage 2000-5s. [Briefly reproduced in TR Weekly Issue No 23/27 – July 1, 2016] - See more at:

http://www.tacticalreport.com/view_news/Qatar:-Talks-with-Pakistan-over-Mirage-2000-5s/5055

india and pakistan tried for mirage-2000s 10 years ago. india backed out because the price is too high. for the iaf they have 50 Mirage-2000s. why would paf acquire less than 20 mirage-2000 and get another platform to maintain ?

 

[Darth Vader]

@MastanKhan Just one thing you always make Paf a money hungry organisation in your post please do enlighten me lets just assume there was money why would Paf would donate the money when they could have just spent it themselves and bought new jets because i dont understand why would they do a selfless act from a organisation which don't care any one
For me only thing is for the sake of there country
And you can call me whatever i want dont care
Because it your usual rant against paf which is in every single post