PTI's wrong Plan: New Provinces in Punjab, but Karachi needs not to be made a province

[veg]

It's not the only reason.

MQM should never ever have any place in Karachi's government. They should be banned or made irrelevant, just like ANP has become. Ethnic nationalist extremist organizations should be banned.

It is not your decision.

But it is the decision of the people of Karachi to choose their representative.

Your right is only to present them BETTER alternative choice so that they could vote you. But you failed in safeguarding their rights and interests or even failed in simply accepting that their rights have been violated. Thus people of Karachi rejected you and choose MQM.

Another reason is people of Karachi didn't get their rights while they were non-Sindhis and the government of Sindh kept them deprive of their rights for this reason. So, please also ban PPP and all the Sindh based parties too.

But your problem was this that you let PPP ethnic based exploitation of the people of Karachi, and much worse on the same time keep on denying any rights to people of Karachi by blaming them to be ethnic based.

 

[Sugarcane]

I am stating that urdu speaking majority has not been integrated..not saying whether they should not be..My opinion is clear about that.
Regarding understanding of Punjab , yes may be you know better ...No one knows 100 percent ..

There are good number of non-Punjabi people who migrated to Punjab from other places of India, if instead of choosing to differentiate themselves they choose to integrate and are now fluent with local language doesn't mean they didn't had problem in doing so. Punjabi is not the only mother tongue of people of Punjab, even Punjabi itself have dozens of dialects. Migrant to Punjab also had to face problems during settlement and integration phase which is natural, I still remember that in early eighties we wanted to buy a house in Multan but the neighborhood forced the owner not to sell to us because we were migrants not local, although things have been changed since then but still there are people who differentiate between locals and migrants. Heck even in our Baradari there is differentiation of Seraiki Arains, Haryanvi Arains and Punjabi Arains - Local Arains and migrant Arains. Although these differences doesn't matter in day to day affairs but still people consider this for marriages. In short people (local & migrant) of Punjab must be appreciated and should serve as example of how integration is done instead of undermining it based on assumption that there was/is no issue because of same language and culture which is far from fact.

 

[veg]

The Issue of Adopting Sindhi Language/Culture:

Please understand the following issues:

1. Pakistanis have their 3rd and 4th generation in England, but still they stick to their culture and language.

2. Migrants from India had their own culture, which was highly developed culture. It is not a good option to compel the people to leave their culture forcefully.

Regarding language:

1. Migrants in interior Sindh do speak Sindhi.
While migrants in Karachi/Hyderabad don't speak Sindhi.

2. Humans are lazy by nature. They never learn any additional language till the time they are not compelled for it.

For example, Migrants in small cities and villages of Punjab may speak Punjabi, but a lot of migrants in Lahore and Pindi/Islamabad don't speak Punjabi. Reason is simple that they were never compelled to learn Punjabi while Punjabis in bigger cities were able to speak and understand Urdu very well.

3. In Karachi, migrants were not compelled to learn Sindhi as people in Karachi were able to communicate in Urdu with all the different communities that were living in Karachi.

Moreover, Urdu speaking and understanding population was huge 90%, while there were less than 7% Sindhis in Karachi.

4. You see Makranis and Baluchis are living for centuries in Sindh. Still Makranies and Baluchis are unable to speak Sindhi.
Reason is simple they always lived at places in Sindh, where Sindhi speakers were in minority and thus they never felt the compulsion to learn Sindhi.

5. And Muhajirs are not alone who didn't learn Sindhi language in Karachi.
But there were Millions of Punjabis and Pushtoon too in Karachi. They were also not able to learn Sindhi.

Practically, you could never make this majority population of Karachi to learn Sindhi. It is impossible.

6. Another human nature is this people always learn the MORE developed language. While Urdu is more developed and used as official language, thus younger generations of Punjabis, Pushtoon and Sindhis will automatically become more and more fluent in Urdu.
But the journey will not stop here.
English is more developed that Urdu. This means the younger generations of Muhajirs themselves will start forgetting Urdu and gradually they will start communicating in English.
Same is with rest of Pakistan. At some time our educated new generations will feel more comfortable in speaking and writing English than Urud/Punjabi/Sindhi/Pushto.

7. Learning Punjabi is easy while it is very much similar to Urdu as compared to Sindhi/Pushto.
Many Punjabis live in Peshawar and Kohat (especially Army families). But hardly any one learning Pushto or Hindko.
They don't need it while communities mostly communicate in Urdu with each other.

PTM faced far worst but they did protest...To show on national level one has to bear some hardship..Are you telling me MQM can't gather 40-50 K people in karachi and block the activities in karachi ?If not then majority does not hold there view probably

Voters of MQM showed this when despite all the odds, they very very heavily voted for MQM in the last local city government elections.

These elections were held after the rangers operation and no rigging was possible. Despite all hardships, MQM won with huge margin. I don't think more could be demanded from the MQM supporters.

As far as new province is concerned, then I am pretty sure all of them get rid of PPP control.

 

[Sugarcane]

Migrants from India had their own culture, which was highly developed culture. It is not a good option to compel the people to leave their culture forcefully.
.

This superiority complex is/was the problem of integration in Sindh. Learning local language and respecting the local culture doesn't mean leaving your own language/culture.

First you imagine that without the campaign of the people of these Indian provinces, there would have been no Pakistan and you would have still been a part of majority Hindu India.

I want to point out historical fact that Muslims of Sindh with support of politicians of Punjab were successful to force British Raj to divide Bombay presidency and detach Muslim majority Sindh province. It happened 11 Years earlier than partition, and unlike 1947 British weren't weak at that time.

 

[veg]

This superiority complex is/was the problem of integration in Sindh. Learning local language and respecting the local culture doesn't mean leaving your own language/culture.

When it comes to culture then every one is proud of it and difficult to compel them to leave it.
I gave you the example of Punjabis who have been living in Sindh even before the partition. Still they were unable to learn Sindhi.
Same is about Makranis and Baluchis, and they are also proud of their culture and language and never gave it up and never mixed in Sindhi culture/language.

Let us say that all this happened due to the superiority complex and all is migrant's mistake. But problem is I still don't see any solution to this superiority complex.

I want to point out historical fact that Muslims of Sindh with support of politicians of Punjab were successful to force British Raj to divide Bombay presidency and detach Muslim majority Sindh province. It happened 11 Years earlier than partition, and unlike 1947 British weren't weak at that time.

Creation of 2 provinces from one province is far far away to be compared with creation of 2 separate Countries, with totally independent new Constituion, Law and Army.

Please also remember that Punjab was Pukhtoonkhawa or Baluchistan were not even active in creation of Pakistan till very late. Muslim League flourished due to major contributions of Muslims of central India.

It would have been very difficult for Sindh alone to convince British to make it a separate country.

 

[pak-marine]

If pti wins the pressure on ppp to implement local bodies will be huge just hope and pray interior votes for gda in large number :-//

GDA is again small time guys they can hardly make a dent in PPP votes

 

[Sugarcane]

When it comes to culture then every one is proud of it and difficult to compel them to leave it.
I gave you the example of Punjabis who have been living in Sindh even before the partition. Still they were unable to learn Sindhi.
Same is about Makranis and Baluchis, and they are also proud of their culture and language and never gave it up and never mixed in Sindhi culture/language.

Let us say that all this happened due to the superiority complex and all is migrant's mistake. But problem is I still don't see any solution to this superiority complex.

Nobody asked you to leave your language/culture or not to be proud of that but respect others, Problem is when you say that our culture is/was more developed/superior. For every one Punjabi/Baloch/Pakhtoon who can't understand local language, I can show you dozens who can do so in Punjab & Interior Sindh. Keep in mind, Unlike Punjabis on whom Urdu was imposed by British long ago in effort to bring it closer to rest of India, the language was relatively new for Sindhis who revolted against same kind of effort by British. But still they have learned it for national cause.

Creation of 2 provinces from one province is far far away to be compared with creation of 2 separate Countries, with totally independent new Constituion, Law and Army.

Please also remember that Punjab was Pukhtoonkhawa or Baluchistan were not even active in creation of Pakistan till very late. Muslim League flourished due to major contributions of Muslims of central India.

It would have been very difficult for Sindh alone to convince British to make it a separate country.

ML may have been popular in central or east India, but the fact is that it became force and was taken seriously only when people of western frontier Sindh, Punjab, NWFP gave support, otherwise Congress and British weren't ready even to consider it representative of Muslims of all India let alone listening to her demands. The frontier part of British raj was bound to have separate destiny with/without Muslim league, if not in 47 then may be decade later, it wouldn't have been possible for Indian union to force contiguous Muslim territory with heavy presence in Armed forces, police and local administration bordering and having cultural links with two Muslim countries, they had to either let them go away or bow down to their demands.

 

[Finer]

It is obvious that Imran Khan doesn't want to risk alienating Zardari for the obvious reason. Maybe in the next election that Imran Khan might do u-turn and propose new province for Karachi once PMLN is defeated once and for all judging by the following patterns.

 

[S.Y.A]

Agreed. When the British arrived in Indus Basin in 1840s Sindh was a independent state ruled by Mirs. It was British military victory on the battlefield that forced Sindh to being attached to British India. 104 years later Sindh detached and federated within Pakistan. I don't think the deal was "hey migrants from India we will give you refuge but then down the road you can carve our land".

And unlike Punjab, Sindh was being ruled by native Muslim dynasty.


Mir Nasir Khan Talpur ruler of Sindh faced off the modern British army of Charles Napier

And did the sindhis developed karachi or the outsiders did?

After partition families like dawoods, habins etc invested in karachi and developed it, sindhis didnt give a flying fvck. Whatever was alloted to muhajirs was the property left behind by hindus, muhajirs didnt take anything from sindhis.

This myth of bhukay nangy has to end too, it was a muhajir owned company (orient airways) that was turned into Pia. It was the blank cheqies given by habibs and others to govt of pakistan that propped it up.

It was the British, the Goans, the Hindus and the migrants who developed and built karachi. Under sindhis it was a fishing village. And under sindhi rule it is gradually returning to that state.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1015868898476949505

 

[Patriots]

You clearly Don't know the history of Sindh. Pakistan was not one. you clearly lake some knowledge. Go read books btw google will help to.

Karachi was and is and will be Part of Sindh if any one has balls try to divide Sindh.

Actually you don’t know the history ... Karachi was never the part of Sindh nor Sindhis were settled over here ... First Brits made it part of Sindh ... Karachi belongs to Balochistan ... Balochs are old residents of Karachi ... Nearest city is Hub that is baloch city ... None of any city of Sindh is near to Karachi like Hub .......

obviously entire sindh ...and you cannot compare the sub continent division with the division of a province, no body want the independence but reduction of territorial dependency .. in my opinion a simple solution for all the mess is....All provinces should be abolished and Pakistan should be divided in Administrative Divisions rather than ethnic provinces and for that purpose infrastructure is already in place.

Punjab- 9 Divisions
Sind - 7 Divisions
KPK - 7 Divisions + 1 Division of FATA
Baluchistan - 6 (+Gawadar would be 7th) Divisions
GB - 2 Divisions
AJK - 3 Divisions

Then why don’t you ask to whole Punjab to making a province South Punjab ???? You should know that Karachi population is about 30 million but in census it had been restricted by 15 million ... There must be held referendum in Sindh to make Karachi a province ... Then you’ll see that Sindhis will oppose the idea .......

 

[BRAVO_]

=
Then why don’t you ask to whole Punjab to making a province South Punjab ???? You should know that Karachi population is about 30 million but in census it had been restricted by 15 million ... There must be held referendum in Sindh to make Karachi a province ... Then you’ll see that Sindhis will oppose the idea .......

personally i am against the idea of having provinces systems, under current systems all politicians are tide up in one rope of jointly loot the pakistan where provincial govts have 40 - 40 ministers and we never even heard the name of many of them and these guys have no contribution in any type of development what so ever, making more provinces will add nothing but an army of ministers and bureaucrats in every provincial govt.

so the best option is go for a divisional level with a strong local govt systems. other than my opinion, keeping in view the current provincial system take a look at the south punjab tax collection rates, to run a provincial govt funds are required which mostly comes through tax collection, how much tax base is in south punjab??? this entire system is designed to help corrupt politicians and irony is we have democracy in pakistan, democratic system is good for those countries where literacy rates are high and people know the power of their votes and in those societies it produced good results .. but in a country where people cast their vote for the plate of BIRYANI and some come up with a magnificent logic " that their fathers and elders were voted to a party that is why we will voting them again" ... what result could we expect?? only a strong local govt system under a strong central govt can empower the people of an area to chose the people according to their needs and wishes

 

[veg]

It is obvious that Imran Khan doesn't want to risk alienating Zardari for the obvious reason. Maybe in the next election that Imran Khan might do u-turn and propose new province for Karachi once PMLN is defeated once and for all judging by the following patterns.

You could not make the people of Karachi scapegoat for your personal political gains and keep on usurping their rights for decades, turning their city in garbage, and telling them Karachi could not be make a province.

And if you could not raise you voice due to political reasons, then stop contesting elections in Karachi and let that party become the representative which could raise the voice of the people of Karachi.

 

[My-Analogous]

Up-to the people of karachi whatever they perceive..Message is quite clear ..There would be no division of sindh...Sindhis are quite nationalistic about this

Where are sindhi's in 1900?. i Didn't find any map? Can any Sindhi provide me the same?. Stop this idiotic talk and Punjab is also mother land for Punjabi, so stop dividing Punjab because of it. Totally shameful and criminal things are are doing.

 

[defence_analyst]

Actually you don’t know the history ... Karachi was never the part of Sindh nor Sindhis were settled over here ... First Brits made it part of Sindh ... Karachi belongs to Balochistan ... Balochs are old residents of Karachi ... Nearest city is Hub that is baloch city ... None of any city of Sindh is near to Karachi like Hub .......

Not true, Lasbela/Hub in Balochistan is sindhi majority district. Not only baloch live in Balochistan you know.