PTI's wrong Plan: New Provinces in Punjab, but Karachi needs not to be made a province

[Kabira]

No they are not. Stunt against Nawaz Sharif is more for Iman Khan's personal gain.

But when it came to the rights of the people of Swat, then we remember very well this this same Imran Khan was delivering speeches in favour of Nizam-e-Muhammadi of Mullah Sufi Muhammad and campaigning full time for the removal of Pak Army from Swat.

Due to this foolishness of Imran Khan, Army came out of Swat, and Taliban got hold of whole Swat, and started slaughtering people in the markets of Swat, and then started advancing towards Islamabad.

As result of foolishness of leaders like Imran Khan, there were more than 1 million IDP and billions of Rs was the cost of Swat Operation.

Same is true for handing over money to the Madaris of Sami-ul-Haq. Iman Khan does all that for his personal gains.

We are well aware of Taliban Khan though process but this have little to do with Karachi. In fact PTI will likely not even win 1 seat in Karachi.

Best option is devolution of powers because there is no point making provinces based of single biggest ethnicity of city. When we know Pakistani urban demographics are constantly changing.

Karachi in 1998
1. urdu speakers 48%
2. punjabi 13%
3 pakhtun 13%
4 Sindhi 7%

In 2017 urdu speakers are still single biggest ethnicity but less then in 1998 % wise. Sindhi have overtaken both pakhtuns and punjabis. At the rate rural sindh is migrating to Karachi, in 20 years urdu speakers and sindhi speakers will be neck and neck in terms of population. And then eventually Sindhi will become majority. That's just inevitable and not far in future either.

 

[pak-marine]

The demand of Karachi province is not primarily based upon the ethnic lines, but it has been based more upon the administrative lines.

And it has also been based upon the JUSTICE line, where one community has been blackmailed by the majority and their rights have been usurped and their city changed into garbage by the non locals, who have all the control upon their affairs.

This is not going to work.

You have to transfer the powers to the lowest level.

Even the city government of Karachi should not have the right to spend the funds of Lyari, but only the representative of Lyari area should get all the funds for this area.

And Pashtoon also have their areas in Karachi. And their representatives should get the fund of those areas.

Problem solved.


PS:
People of Karachi has no problem to stay as Sindhi Pakistani. Main issue is transfer of the powers to the lowest level so that they get rid of Wadayrahs of Sindh.
Just name the new province as Southern Sindh.
But question is, do the Sindhis of interior Sindh accept them as as New Sindhis and ready to hand over their fate in their own hands?

Agree with Power de centralization this is ppp badmashi that they have taken all power from the mayor and he/she now or in the future are impotent figures like sadar e Pakistan but ppp is not sindh hence division of sindh over admininsrative cannot be justified just because of ppp’s action . They are fuedal lords and are bound to doom look at bilo rani he doesnt know shyt about pakistan they are becoming more foreign and having the democratic systems in place and let the democracy be everyone’s best revenge

 

[Mr ambassador]

I am a sindhi


Let me give my opinion.

sindhi people have emotional attachment with division of sindh.

So it will create problems for federal . Moverover PPP will get another political card to get support of sindhi people on division issue. As nowadays PPP is taking its last breath in Sindh .so it's better not to give chance to zardari to play Sindh card.



Bring land reforms and introduce adminstrative changes in bureaucracy and local government. Increase provencial seats of Karachi, Hyderabad and sukkur so that urban votes will influence rural part of Sindh. As education level in Sindh rural is zero .Hence urban citizens will get chance to elect decent politicians. . Even people of Karachi , Hyderabad and sukkur will be able to elect CM


Actually , main issue is good governance.

By introducing land reforms ,all wadaras will die politically. It will help economy of rural Sindh.


Introduce local grand assemblies with local adminstrative system.

It's too easy to solve the issue.

 

[jupiter2007]

What rights MQM supporters don't have?

Making Karachi a province is another Kalabagh Dam controversy. Best avoided. However, the people of Karachi should be given rights as were given by Musharraf and then you saw Karachi prosper. PTI needs to win interior Sindh and get rid of PPP waderas.

Just as I said, you people have not put any good enough alternative choice in front of people of Karachi, and as a result you will see again MQM even if temporarily PTI wins with the help of the establishment.

Just as I expected, now PTI is running away from facing MQM on the issue of Karachi. This is a total failure on the level of leadership of PTI where they didn't adopt right policy for Karachi.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1015590900599279616

PTI could not run forever. At some point they have to face it.
Other option is help from the establishment in the polls, but that will again prove to be a temporary solution.

People of Karachi are going to reject MQM in next election. What is the point of talking to them about future of Karachi?

sindh should be divided into four provinces and Karachi into 4 cities and each part to be made part of each of 4 provinces so that economy of any new province is not left behind.

I can understand about making DHA city and Bahria Town into a new city, but what is logic about dividing Karachi into 4 cities?

 

[pak-marine]

Simple solution is strong local body funds be distributed division wise inside province


Five problems one solution Pakhtunkhwa wala baldiyati nizam
Make provincial govt weak and local bodies strong on galli mohalla matters
@pak-marine


I know two one i hate the other left pdf

Possible but its v long term to implement thats why many are getting impatient ppp or subai govt controls local bodies and mayor’s powers so unless a new majority forms and brings in new legislation or least revives the old one empowering local bodies .. this is more a dream than reality

 

[veg]

I am a sindhi


Let me give my opinion.

sindhi people have emotional attachment with division of sindh.

So it will create problems for federal . Moverover PPP will get another political card to get support of sindhi people on division issue. As nowadays PPP is taking its last breath in Sindh .so it's better not to give chance to zardari to play Sindh card.



Bring land reforms and introduce adminstrative changes in bureaucracy and local government. Increase provencial seats of Karachi, Hyderabad and sukkur so that urban votes will influence rural part of Sindh. As education level in Sindh rural is zero .Hence urban citizens will get chance to elect decent politicians. . Even people of Karachi , Hyderabad and sukkur will be able to elect CM


Actually , main issue is good governance.

By introducing land reforms ,all wadaras will die politically. It will help economy of rural Sindh.


Introduce local grand assemblies with local adminstrative system.

It's too easy to solve the issue.

ہم نے مانا کہ تغافل نہ کرو گے ، لیکن
خاک ہو جائیں گے ہم، تم کو خبر ہونے تک

Karachi has already become a garbage place.

People are thirsty and crying for water.

Rangers is doing Operation for the last many years, but arrested ZERO Tanker Mafia.

People of Karachi see no option to have their own Representatives with any administrative powers.

Rangers are consisted of 100% Punjabis. Even if they are ANGELS, still they will be hated by the locals. Just imagine 100% Muhajir Bhaiyyay running the affairs of Lahore with full powers and kicking the locals every day. Hatred is natural in such environment.

Police consists of mostly PPP Jiyalas and Punjabis, with almost negligible migrant representation.

All provincial Gorvernment Organisations in Karachi are full of Sindhis, who got seats on the Parchi of Provincial PPP Jiyalay Ministers.

All Central Government Organisations in Karachi are mostly full of Punjabis while Nawaz League Government Ministers are all Punjabis.

==

And in such hopeless situation Imran Khan is telling the people of Karachi to forget about having Karachi as Southern Sindh province, while it is Ok to make such provinces in Punjab.

The city government of MQM is present in Karachi at moment. How much has it been supported by Rangers and PTI and the establishment to get any meaningful powers from PPP?

Absolutely Nothing.

And they you ask people of Karachi to keep on dreaming of independent Karachi, while Imran Khan oppose their independence in order to get popularity in Sindh.

Thank you.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Off course the OFFICIAL DEAL for the creation of Pakistan was this that India will take the Hindu migrants and Pakistan will take the Muslim migrants

Where did you pull this fact from? MQM history books? Please cite me a primary source for this. Thanks.

 

[veg]

Where did you pull this fact from? MQM history books? Please cite me a primary source for this. Thanks.

It seems that you are correct and there was no such clause of transfer of population mentioned in the Mountbatten Plan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India
The 1951 Census of Pakistan identified the number of displaced persons in Pakistan at 7,226,600, presumably all Muslims who had entered Pakistan from India. Similarly, the 1951 Census of India enumerated 7,295,870 displaced persons, apparently all Hindus and Sikhs who had moved to India from Pakistan immediately after the Partition.[92]

I am ashamed of my ancestors. Why were they so stupid to start the idea of Pakistan by supporting Muslim League, and then campaigned for it, without even having any rights in Pakistan.

I am ashamed of my ancestors that they came to Pakistan and they gave problems to the real sons of the soils and they had no right for that.

Now do a favour to us, just kill us by putting a bullet in our heads, as India is not going to accept us any more, and I could not swim and make Arabian See my home. I fear water more than death from pistol.

And don't forger to tear down our Pakistani passports first, as we had no right for that. We were never a Pakistani and will never be considered a Pakistani and don't deserve equal rights like other sons of the soils.

And the most important, before killing us and telling us we don't have any rights, please set all the books and documents under fire which talk about any "Two Nation Theory". My ancestors were very stupid who believed in this deception.

Thank you.

 

[Zibago]

Possible but its v long term to implement thats why many are getting impatient ppp or subai govt controls local bodies and mayor’s powers so unless a new majority forms and brings in new legislation or least revives the old one empowering local bodies .. this is more a dream than reality

If pti wins the pressure on ppp to implement local bodies will be huge just hope and pray interior votes for gda in large number :-//

 

[Kabira]

Rangers are consisted of 100% Punjabis.

Is there any truth in this or just propaganda? I also heard most of Karachi police consist of punjabis, really?

 

[Mr ambassador]

ہم نے مانا کہ تغافل نہ کرو گے ، لیکن
خاک ہو جائیں گے ہم، تم کو خبر ہونے تک

Karachi has already become a garbage place.

People are thirsty and crying for water.

Rangers is doing Operation for the last many years, but arrested ZERO Tanker Mafia.

People of Karachi see no option to have their own Representatives with any administrative powers.

Rangers are consisted of 100% Punjabis. Even if they are ANGELS, still they will be hated by the locals. Just imagine 100% Muhajir Bhaiyyay running the affairs of Lahore with full powers and kicking the locals every day. Hatred is natural in such environment.

Police consists of mostly PPP Jiyalas and Punjabis, with almost negligible migrant representation.

All provincial Gorvernment Organisations in Karachi are full of Sindhis, who got seats on the Parchi of Provincial PPP Jiyalay Ministers.

All Central Government Organisations in Karachi are mostly full of Punjabis while Nawaz League Government Ministers are all Punjabis.

==

And in such hopeless situation Imran Khan is telling the people of Karachi to forget about having Karachi as Southern Sindh province, while it is Ok to make such provinces in Punjab.

The city government of MQM is present in Karachi at moment. How much has it been supported by Rangers and PTI and the establishment to get any meaningful powers from PPP?

Absolutely Nothing.

And they you ask people of Karachi to keep on dreaming of independent Karachi, while Imran Khan oppose their independence in order to get popularity in Sindh.

Thank you.

If Mohajir stop supporting MQM terrorist party , definitely rangers will leave Karachi.



Interior Sindh is Moen jo daro.

People come to Karachi for education and medical purpose.


So....I already said Sindh needs good governance. Both Mohajir &Sindhi are victim of bad governance.


Everything will be okay with good governance and corruption free Sindh .

 

[veg]

Is there any truth in this or just propaganda? I also heard most of Karachi police consist of punjabis, really?

Yes. During the decade of 90s, when there was an operation going on against MQM, the police heads were Like Shoaib and Rana Maqbool were imported from Punjab, who made Karachi police full from people from Punjab origin.

And then came Zulfiqar Mirza who gave jobs to thousands of criminals in Karachi police. Those criminals belonged even to Rehman Dakait group.

Supreme Court under Iftikhar Chaudhry took suo moto action on situation of Karachi. There supreme court wrote in it's decision that 40% of Karachi Police was political based.

 

[Kabira]

Yes. During the decade of 90s, when there was an operation going on against MQM, the police heads were Like Shoaib and Rana Maqbool were imported from Punjab, who made Karachi police full from people from Punjab origin.

And then came Zulfiqar Mirza who gave jobs to thousands of criminals in Karachi police. Those criminals belonged even to Rehman Dakait group.

Supreme Court under Iftikhar Chaudhry took suo moto action on situation of Karachi. There supreme court wrote in it's decision that 40% of Karachi Police was political based.

Police head? that is normal. Anyway rangers have brought peace, punjabis or not they did their job.

If Mohajir stop supporting MQM terrorist party , definitely rangers will leave Karachi.



Interior Sindh is Moen jo daro.

People come to Karachi for education and medical purpose.


So....I already said Sindh needs good governance. Both Mohajir &Sindhi are victim of bad governance.


Everything will be okay with good governance and corruption free Sindh .

Exactly, they aka both MQM and PPP will be gone the day whole Sindh stand united for good governance and not pity fights. Sindh badly need political competition both in rural and urban areas but not over ethnic card.

 

[veg]

Police head? that is normal. Anyway rangers have brought peace, punjabis or not they did their job.

There was much more peace available during the Era of Musharraf even without the Rangers and Karachi was progressing at the rapid pace. There were no political arrests or killings by the Police. There was no Tanker Mafia roaming free like today (but Rangers have not arrested a single Tanker Mafia criminal, although they have all the authorities).

Peace of Karachi deteriorated when Zulfiqar Mirza became the home minister, and he supported the Rehman Dekait gang, and other Lyari gans and then there was a war in Karachi.

Even if Rangers succeeded in maintaining peace, still it will never be seen as a wise step that 100% non local Rangers control the affairs of Karachi. It is a recipe for disaster and hatred. Why there are no locals in the Rangers? Are they traitors and thus not eligible to be a part of Rangers?

 

[Sugarcane]

After debating and trying to advocate more provinces for long, I have concluded that dividing provinces (other than Punjab) aren't possible and we should stop demanding to do so as it will create more problems than solving. Instead we should change the governance system, imho we should
1. Eliminate the provincial assemblies. Only national assembly and senate are enough to do unified legislation. We should adopt a system where Prime Minister/President must win people/assembly votes from majority of country's divisions as well not just majority votes to avoid situation like current where wining Punjab means forming government.
2. Retain the ceremonial Provincial Governor seats to retain the provincial identities.
3. Delegate the administrative power to Division -> District -> Town/City level to empower local population to manage their affairs.
4. Restructure Judicial system accordingly to make access to courts easy.
5. Police and Public services personal must be of 50% of local and 50% from rest of country to keep/improve integration of society and to avoid any local mafia/godfathers creating monopoly and controlling the system.