PTI's wrong Plan: New Provinces in Punjab, but Karachi needs not to be made a province

[Proudpakistaniguy]

People are demanding separate province for two reasons

1) For better administration and better management of resources/funds
2) They are obsessed with ethnic nationalism and want new province on ethnic grounds but pretend otherwise

First reason might be valid but separate province should not be allowed if someone demand this for second reason. Karachi is hugely multi-ethnic and multi-linguistic city unlike South Punjab and hazara belt . We should prefer be a native of Pakistan rather than of a province. Progress of Pakistan should matter at the end and there should be effort to lift up those areas that are less developed. Country is like family unit where all family members(provinces) would have different income/resources but they all work betterment of their family by sticking together

 

[defence_analyst]

After debating and trying to advocate more provinces for long, I have concluded that dividing provinces (other than Punjab) aren't possible and we should stop demanding to do so as it will create more problems than solving. Instead we should change the governance system, imho we should
1. Eliminate the provincial assemblies. Only national assembly and senate are enough to do unified legislation. We should adopt a system where Prime Minister/President must win people/assembly votes from majority of country's divisions as well not just majority votes to avoid situation like current where wining Punjab means forming government.
2. Retain the ceremonial Provincial Governor seats to retain the provincial identities.
3. Delegate the administrative power to Division -> District -> Town/City level to empower local population to manage their affairs.
4. Restructure Judicial system accordingly to make access to courts easy.
5. Police and Public services personal must be of 50% of local and 50% from rest of country to keep/improve integration of society and to avoid any local mafia/godfathers creating monopoly and controlling the system.

More provinces are possible like south punjab, hazara province but Karachi? I don't think so. Karachi is city and cannot be separate province, its ridiculous to even demand something like this. Because city as diverse as Karachi where muhajirs are only just largest ethnicity not even majority become province on demand of single ethnic party with questionable past.

South sindh can be separate province in far future. But it will consist large parts of south sindh not just Karachi. But this is far in future once all other provinces are made.

2) They are obsessed with ethnic nationalism and want new province on ethnic grounds but pretend otherwise

Basically this. And in Karachi no single ethnicity is even majority that's why its ridiculous to even ask for separate province over filmy grounds. Plus as I said cities under no conditions should ever be made provinces.

 

[defence_analyst]

It is obvious that Imran Khan doesn't want to risk alienating Zardari for the obvious reason. Maybe in the next election that Imran Khan might do u-turn and propose new province for Karachi once PMLN is defeated once and for all judging by the following patterns.

Trust me muhajirs will loss out in new Karachi province. Right now MQM play victim card but forgot the fact that urdu speakers who make 40% of population but win 90% of Karachi seats and get 95% of jobs from urban quota in police, army and other government jobs. Once Karachi province is made then ethnic minorities in Karachi will demand equal share in everything from jobs, resources, seats etc

Making such small area with 16m population separate province could be dangerous for ghetto like Karachi. MQM knows this hence their best chance to control 100% of Karachi resources is through victimisation card. They are not serious about new province.

 

[defence_analyst]

ML may have been popular in central or east India, but the fact is that it became force and was taken seriously only when people of western frontier Sindh, Punjab, NWFP gave support, otherwise Congress and British weren't ready even to consider it representative of Muslims of all India let alone listening to her demands. The frontier part of British raj was bound to have separate destiny with/without Muslim league, if not in 47 then may be decade later, it wouldn't have been possible for Indian union to force contiguous Muslim territory with heavy presence in Armed forces, police and local administration bordering and having cultural links with two Muslim countries, they had to either let them this part go away or bow down to their demands.

What ever the case but give credit to Jinnah lead muslim league to wake up Pakistanis in KP and Punjab who were voting for pro congress parties who wanted to remain with India, ANP and Unionists. Correct me if I'm wrong. But what ever happened fact is 20% of Sindh hindu population was replaced with equally number of muslims from India. So not a bad deal. Most of Karachi previous population was also not native but British imported hindus from other areas of India.

Sindhis were also smart in craving out separate province from Hindu dominated Bombay presidency. This allowed Sindh to retain some hindu majority districts post partition. Sindh was also first province to vote for Pakistan. Meanwhile in north Pakistanis were sleeping and slowly being swallowed up by hindu baniya chants of pseudo secularism. If they hadn't slept then IoK and some more areas in east punjab would have been part of Pakistan now.

Sindh on its own definitely played huge part for Pakistan.

 

[veg]

More provinces are possible like south punjab, hazara province but Karachi? I don't think so. Karachi is city and cannot be separate province
... Making such small area with 16m population separate province could be dangerous for ghetto like Karachi.

According to administrative bases, Karachi should be a province.
It happens all over the world where cities of the size of Karachi or even less have been given the status of Metropolitan City and they were made independent administrative unit.

Right now MQM play victim card but forgot the fact that urdu speakers who make 40% of population but win 90% of Karachi seats and get 95% of jobs from urban quota in police, army and other government jobs.

Unfortunately, nothing is ideal and this problem is not limited to Karachi only, and Democracy is indeed works on this bases.

For example, Nawaz League gets 90% seats in Lahore, although they also have 30% to 40% votes and rest go to PTI and PPP and Islamic Parties and others.


Firstly, some corrections:


1. There is no Urban Karachi quota in Army. The numbers of people of Karachi in Army are very very low (about 1%). It should actually increase.
There are almost no locals in Rangers in Karachi and they are majority is from Punjab.


2. There are no Quota of Urban Sindh in jobs.
Sindh Quota system is limited to seats in Universities and Colleges, and DEVELOPMENT funds, but not the jobs.
This made situation worse, as all the ministers are Sindhis in PPP led provincial assembly. And as results, Sindhis get the jobs in the provincial government institutions, while migrants have no chance.
And in centre Nawaz League makes a government and Ministers are from Punjab, and thus their friends from Punjab get jobs in central government institutes and migrants then again sidelined.



3. There is no Urban Quota for jobs in Police.
Karachi Police is 85% non locals.
During the 90s era, the Police Chiefs Shoaib Siddle and Rana Maqbool gave jobs to people of Punjab.
And then in PPP provincial assembly era, all the jobs were given to Sindhis. Zulfiqar Mirza (home minister) gave jobs to the gang of Rehman Dakait in police. Supreme Court took Suo Moto action upon Karachi and there Chief Justice passed this observation about Karachi Police.
There are about 15% to 20% locals in Karachi Police, but again many of them from Sindhi background (but living in Karachi) or PPP supporters

During Musharraf Era, MQM was not able to get jobs in the Police while Musharraf got a very good Police Program where people were getting jobs only on Merit.

4. MQM was able to get jobs in city government departments during Mustafa Kamal era.
But in absence of MQM, all these jobs go to Sindh Government (i.e. PPP).


Solution:

PPP government does not deliver in Karachi.
But MQM led government does deliver in Karachi and that is why even the non-muhajirs in Karachi too support city government of Karachi as compared to be ruled by Sindhi Wadyrah of PPP.

Only fears are that MQM will give jobs to its supporters. But present alternative is also as bad (if not worse) where PPP led provincial government is doing the same for the last many decades.
Solution is to make government jobs based upon Merit, as Musharraf did it in case of Karachi Police. But don't deny the people of Karachi to have their own government which will proof for them much better than the present situation.

Another important step is that authorities should be transferred to the lowest level. That is city government will also not have the right to spend the funds, but the funds go directly to the lowest level. For example Soharab Goth and Katti Pahari and Liyari etc have Pushtoon and Makrani and Sindhi population. So the funds go directly in the hands of their chosen local area representative.

Because city as diverse as Karachi where muhajirs are only just largest ethnicity not even majority become province on demand of single ethnic party with questionable past.

PPP has almost the same questionable past. It should not be good enough reason to deny the people of karachi their rights.
Rangers could be placed in Karachi and thus counter and questionable attitude.

Giving MQM led karachi government the right to govern is in every case a better choice than the present situation where PPP is governing the Karachi. It may not be ideal, but it will still be better.

Rangers is already there, but still Karachi has become a garbage place during PPP era, and people are thirsty while rangers have done nothing against the Tanker Mafia. While during MQM era, Mustafa Kamal solved many problems of the water in Karachi.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

MQM is a terrorist mafia organization which stockpiles weapons and works with foreign actors like India. MQM should be completely banned and membership should be a crime.

MQM is the no. 1 party responsible for Karachi’s misfortunes.

 

[H!TchHiker]

MQM is a terrorist mafia organization which stockpiles weapons and works with foreign actors like India. MQM should be completely banned and membership should be a crime.

MQM is the no. 1 party responsible for Karachi’s misfortunes.

Zia-a Military dictator was responsible for all this ..He was the one who made MQM ...

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Zia-a Military dictator was responsible for all this ..He was the one who made MQM ...

It’s time we stop supporting these ethnic chauvinist parties like N, PPP, MQM, ANP, and thieves JUI-F, Q. Time for all of us to work for a unified Pakistan.

 

[veg]

MQM is a terrorist mafia organization which stockpiles weapons and works with foreign actors like India. MQM should be completely banned and membership should be a crime.

MQM is the no. 1 party responsible for Karachi’s misfortunes.

Please understand there is a history. People of Karachi see it from this angle of history, but you could not while you didn't go through all this process:

* If MQM is a terrorist organisation, but what do you think about PPP?

* Is PPP Karachi chapter not terrorist, with weapons in Lyari and corrupt Police officers like Rao Anwar who killed for PPP?

* Or what about whole Sohrab Goth and Katti Pahari and other areas which are full of weapons and Mafias.

There was no MQM initially in Karachi.
But there was Sohrab Goth in form of mini Allaqa-e-Ghair, full of weapons, full of Mafias like Transport, smuggling market, where no Pakistan law was applicable.
And also at the same time there was Lyari, again with weapons and Mafia, and PPP Government itself where it was giving all jobs of Karachi to the people of internal Sindh and no development was made in Karachi by PPP.

MQM was created only after this as a reaction. And if they had weapons, then it is understandable. If they also became Mafia, then it was wrong but still understandable to some extent.

Off course people of Karachi don't like the criminal activities of MQM, but still they supported MQM, while it is the best option available in Karachi and it's city government was much better than present PPP government.

If you want to end up MQM, then you could not achieve this task through Force.
You did operation against MQM, but in last city government election, still MQM won.

If you want to end MQM, then you have to give better alternative to the people of Karachi, which you completely failed to provide up till now. PTI did zero work in Karachi. It is opposite when instead for fighting for the due rights of people of Karachi, Imran Khan was opposing the creation of Karachi province while he want to secure the votes in the internal Sindh and once again Karachi is going to be ruled by PPP.

It’s time we stop supporting these ethnic chauvinist parties like N, PPP, MQM, ANP, and thieves JUI-F, Q. Time for all of us to work for a unified Pakistan.

We could achieve a unified Pakistan only when we give it's citizens their due rights.

Imran Khan could only win in Karachi if he raise his voice for the rights of the people. But if he opposes it, then he could not come tot he power and MQM could not be ended.

And if there are no crimes in the city, then MQM also does not need any criminal activity, while it is the most educated party, and most disciplined party, and has immense presence in the community, all it's MNAs and MPAs are present with people 24 hours and they are much better than MNAs and MPAs of PTI who are old Lotay of PPP and N-League and have no direct contact with the people.

MQM is capable of winning hands down even without any criminal activities. It showed it through winning the last local body elections which was held after the Rangers operation and no rigging took place in it.

 

[Kabira]

The reason MQM win 90% of seats in Karachi isn’t because of system. Its because of halqa bandis of the past which were done to give max seats to 1 ethnic group in favor of 1 party. Which is why MQM was never true representive of all Karachites. In Pakistan voters don’t even bother to go out if they don’t see their candidate chace of winning and their vote making difference.

Now with new halqa bandis MQM will loss half of the seats. Not because voting patern will change.

Now there is level playing field. 2018 Karachi election will be very interesting.

 

[veg]

The reason MQM win 90% of seats in Karachi isn’t because of system. Its because of halqa bandis of the past which were done to give max seats to 1 ethnic group in favor of 1 party. Which is why MQM was never true representive of all Karachites. In Pakistan voters don’t even bother to go out if they don’t see their candidate chace of winning and their vote making difference.

Now with new halqa bandis MQM will loss half of the seats. Not because voting patern will change.

Now there is level playing field. 2018 Karachi election will be very interesting.

1. MQM got no role in Halqabandis which existed during 90s era, and the Army operation was going against MQM, but still MQM won Karachi in all elections during 90s era.

2. And Halqabandi may effect on national level, or may be provincial level. But next to impossible to effect on the Local Body election's level while Halqas are extremely small. Still MQM won whole Karachi in all local body elections.

3. And the Halqas were made after 1998 census (which was the last fair census as MQM didn't join Musharraf at that time). MQM joined Musharraf only after 2001. Therefore, MQM could not be blamed for the Halqabandis in all last elections.

4. In census of 1998 (the last fair census), there were 48% Urdu speakers in Karachi, while 12% were Bengali, Behari, Gujrati .... and all of them were "migrants" and their majority vote also goes to MQM. That is why despite lot of pressure from Rangers, still they were unable to stop MQM from winning.

5. In this elections, it may be that MQM looses all the seats.
But it is not due to the support that it has, but it has to do with the internal fights in MQM at moment, and then Agencies launched Mustafa Kamal against MQM. And the biggest problem with MQM Pakistan is this that Altaf Hussain gave the call for election boycott. This is going to hurt MQM Pakistan the most.

6. Whoever wins, but hard reality is this that fate of Karachi is not going to change as provincial government is going to PPP which will never give any authority of the Karachi people.

 

[Mav3rick]

Over the body's of Sindhi people's. For sindhi peoples Sindh is there mother like Pakistan how can one divide his mother.

That CAN be arranged!!

I mean there is a right way to do things; the nonsense of land being compared to a mother needs to be put down once and for all. Our Land is Pakistan and those are the only boundaries that should not get smaller. Furthermore, management of smaller provinces is not only the call of the hour but also the correct way to go. And finally, the Sindhi rulers have raped Karachi for decades, they are more than welcome to continue raping interior Sindh but Karachi has had it with them!!!

 

[Kabira]

1. MQM got no role in Halqabandis which existed during 90s era, and the Army operation was going against MQM, but still MQM won Karachi in all elections during 90s era.

2. And Halqabandi may effect on national level, or may be provincial level. But next to impossible to effect on the Local Body election's level while Halqas are extremely small. Still MQM won whole Karachi in all local body elections.

3. And the Halqas were made after 1998 census (which was the last fair census as MQM didn't join Musharraf at that time). MQM joined Musharraf only after 2001. Therefore, MQM could not be blamed for the Halqabandis in all last elections.

4. In census of 1998 (the last fair census), there were 48% Urdu speakers in Karachi, while 12% were Bengali, Behari, Gujrati .... and all of them were "migrants" and their majority vote also goes to MQM. That is why despite lot of pressure from Rangers, still they were unable to stop MQM from winning.

5. In this elections, it may be that MQM looses all the seats.
But it is not due to the support that it has, but it has to do with the internal fights in MQM at moment, and then Agencies launched Mustafa Kamal against MQM. And the biggest problem with MQM Pakistan is this that Altaf Hussain gave the call for election boycott. This is going to hurt MQM Pakistan the most.

6. Whoever wins, but hard reality is this that fate of Karachi is not going to change as provincial government is going to PPP which will never give any authority of the Karachi people.

Others also include gilgits, kashmiris etc Bengalis don't have much vote and Gujaratis and biharis already identify as urdu speakers, eh Faroor Sattar and Mustafa Kamal etc

Point is MQM won on basis of wrong halqa bandis and the fact that rest of 60% of Karachites vote is divided between other parties. Not only MQM isn't representative of all of Karachites but even all of urdu speakers. Their best option to win was playing ethnic card and get maximum vote from single biggest ethnicity in city like Karachi by targeting 40% of population.

Just by numbers a single party like MQM who only represent one ethnicity cannot demand separate province.

 

[Men in Green]

That CAN be arranged!!

I mean there is a right way to do things; the nonsense of land being compared to a mother needs to be put down once and for all. Our Land is Pakistan and those are the only boundaries that should not get smaller. Furthermore, management of smaller provinces is not only the call of the hour but also the correct way to go. And finally, the Sindhi rulers have raped Karachi for decades, they are more than welcome to continue raping interior Sindh but Karachi has had it with them!!!

If you have balls try it.

 

[Mav3rick]

If you have balls try it.

You tried Karachi's resolve with Pakka Qila and Karachi did retaliate. Recall how you all wet your pants and called in the military for Karachi operation? Without help from the Military or Rangers, all that you guys can do is wet your pants and run away to your hideouts in interior Sindh!!!