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Poll: General Bajwa's Future

What do you think is the future of General Bajwa?


  • Total voters
    103
  • Poll closed .
Dude, stop creating pointless strawmans.

It's the same line you repeat in every thread.
Isn’t this the same rant by everyone you see in every thread which has maligned the quality of this forum .

And as for repetition, maybe it’s the repetitive conspiracy theories that need to stop. And the last straw should deflate with the retirement of Bajwa as there are still those who are waiting for extension or coup but tell me how many conspiracies have come true so far which have taken up pages and pages of treads on forum. So till that retirement day comes, there will be more topics opening on forum courtesy of members following spin doctors of media.

Instead of asking me, clean up the forum a bit.
 
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Unfortunately, even Adm Mansour ul haq had made a lot of positive contributions to the PN but that corrupt scandal put all of it to nothing.

I don’t equate the character or accomplishments but today’s mob mentality and cancel culture means that the “now” mistake and behavior takes all history to naught.

Once again - not an equivalent example so some hot headed frustrated doofus goes beserk. But imagine if after all his efforts Hazrat Khalid bin Waleed due to his purported excesses as governor was called the same names and floored like is being done for the COAS today.
It is human nature to highlight negatives more than positives.

Part of it is his fault - essentially the cult of personality has an expiration date and he should have followed procedure instead of the extension. Could also be the institutional issue of trying to interpret politics from a military lens and using outdated tactics in what is a very different climate. Then there is the ton of dirt on the military which both PML(N) and PPP have and external pressures which the general public has no idea of
Cursing and abusing Military has brought Pakistanis this far, eventually the same will helps Pakistan solve all its problems in future too. Emotions are the way of life here, not a sound mind. The strategy is to kill or get killed, after all, thats what Military trains an officer to be. The art of negotiations and diplomacy in Civil Govt and Political parties will always be clouded by corruption, there can be nothing clean there too.

The seed of doubt has been sowed beautifully, so come what may, Military and ruling Govt (except PTI) has to be the craftsmanship of devil at work.
 
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Court Martial for aiding and or letting US embassy and consulate officials conspire with politicians to topple an elected government.

Court Martial for Treason.
Maybe for the bold if proven but the latter in blue is NOT(and should never be) his purview to even begin with.
 
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Cursing and abusing Military has brought Pakistanis this far, eventually the same will helps Pakistan solve all its problems in future too. Emotions are the way of life here, not a sound mind. The strategy is to kill or get killed, after all, thats what Military trains an officer to be. The art of negotiations and diplomacy in Civil Govt and Political parties will always be clouded by corruption, there can be nothing clean there too.

The seed of doubt has been sowed beautifully, so come what may, Military and ruling Govt (except PTI) has to be the craftsmanship of devil at work.
Technically they began digging this grave thanks to Ayub. The man was sidelined by the Quaid for a reason - and ended up destroying the unity of the country just to stay in power.

Even dear Zulfi Bhutto who was rising up the tanks of bureaucracy thanks to Ghulam Mohammad and others would not have gotten this far if not for Ayub Khan.
Yet I recall many talking about how tall and handsome Ayub vs Shastri .. who the heck cares? But that is what Pakistanis valued rather than true leadership and management capabilities.

The problem with many humans in general is the inability to differentiate leadership vs roles and then how to enact reforms. This isn’t too different from the post Vietnam war America where some soldiers reported being spit on when they came home. Most of them were in a military environment which asks you to accomplish your orders regardless - now if their generals wanted that war to continue both to save face but also because they were stuck with political meddling that did not allow meeting military goals set.. that wasn’t the fault of Sgt John Hamish of the 10th Air Cav riding into an ambush… but he got spit on regardless.

Oddly enough, take the example of general Milley.. he is currently having a PR crisis which the white house has to clean up because he suggested that it would be good to negotiate with Russia and end the conflict on some terms.
Does that mean he is a leader? After all, technically tax payers invested millions to “create” that person as he is today with his training and exposure.. but because of this faux pax he is being lambasted by the Ukrainians, Local politicians and public without really evaluating what he might be suggesting in pragmatism.

I am not saying that it applies to the current COAS or top brass in Pakistan who may very well be guilty or otherwise and be corrupt or otherwise. But because there isn’t any due process to it - no trusted third party institution in Pakistan (because the judiciary too is corrupt and the military system cannot be trusted due to the environment ) that can be provided all the necessary facts and so on and can judge whether the COAS(and others) is to be punished or not… it’s basically public sentiment that will judge him.

As an example - there is a celebrated PAF officer who is always on news channels but there are rumors on him having procured some properties unfairly yet because it isn’t a pressing issue or national spotlight we dont care.

At the end, there is no one clean in Pakistan but all Pakistanis want is a messiah instead of self reform thrown hard work.

You want generals to remain in the line - don’t put them on a pedestal everytime you elect a corrupt person or simply don’t try to change the system.
 
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However, no one called him names nor hated the entire muslim army. That aspect of throwing the baby out with the bathwater does no one good.

Everyone accepts massive reforms are needed within the military and its culture - as with the entire Pakistani system. But instead of really addressing why overseas influences can affect the lives of entire 240 million Pakistanis all they can do is parrot out “Bajra Bajra”
You can only reform a nation and its mindset, when there is no threat to lives of the people leading the way, Yaar itni Jaldi tu Mecca walo ne Rasool Allah ke against Hathyar nai uthaye the, Jitni Jaldi Pakistan mai establishment aur Army ke Against bolne walo ko gayab ker dia jata hai. We have only one thing, that is our voice and hence we use it against the wrongs in Pakistan.
Remember that Prophet once said, if you see something wrong try to stop it with your hands, if you can't do that than speak against it, and if you can't even do that than at least at least in your heart believe it to be wrong.
 
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I would see it in a different light.

The establishment claims it has a moral high ground and their character built on discipline and love for motherland.

Why would the onus not be on them to detach themselves from politics. Genuinely, not involve themselves in political engineering, meeting politicians except for defense related matters, not meeting diplomats.

How hard is to tell the politicians wanting to give them extension and say No, I won’t take it because my successors fully deserve it. Or how hard is it to understand that political engineering does not work and allow the process to grow organically (if past is to go by).

Essentially scope down themselves to strictly defense related matters.

The straight answer is they can’t. Maybe that is by institutional design to interfere in politics or forced by tradition or the Chief does not have control on some of his officers.

Moving forward, institutional reforms are required. Not knee reforms. Proper planned ones, which are rolled out incrementally over time.
 
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Bro,

You admit that Bajwa is involved in political engineering. And you give him 8/10.

Is it ok for Bajwa and others to be deeply involved in politics?

Vacuum is always filled. Law of mother nature.
If you don't some one from outside will.
 
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Technically they began digging this grave thanks to Ayub. The man was sidelined by the Quaid for a reason - and ended up destroying the unity of the country just to stay in power.

Even dear Zulfi Bhutto who was rising up the tanks of bureaucracy thanks to Ghulam Mohammad and others would not have gotten this far if not for Ayub Khan.
Yet I recall many talking about how tall and handsome Ayub vs Shastri .. who the heck cares? But that is what Pakistanis valued rather than true leadership and management capabilities.

The problem with many humans in general is the inability to differentiate leadership vs roles and then how to enact reforms. This isn’t too different from the post Vietnam war America where some soldiers reported being spit on when they came home. Most of them were in a military environment which asks you to accomplish your orders regardless - now if their generals wanted that war to continue both to save face but also because they were stuck with political meddling that did not allow meeting military goals set.. that wasn’t the fault of Sgt John Hamish of the 10th Air Cav riding into an ambush… but he got spit on regardless.

Oddly enough, take the example of general Milley.. he is currently having a PR crisis which the white house has to clean up because he suggested that it would be good to negotiate with Russia and end the conflict on some terms.
Does that mean he is a leader? After all, technically tax payers invested millions to “create” that person as he is today with his training and exposure.. but because of this faux pax he is being lambasted by the Ukrainians, Local politicians and public without really evaluating what he might be suggesting in pragmatism.

I am not saying that it applies to the current COAS or top brass in Pakistan who may very well be guilty or otherwise and be corrupt or otherwise. But because there isn’t any due process to it - no trusted third party institution in Pakistan (because the judiciary too is corrupt and the military system cannot be trusted due to the environment ) that can be provided all the necessary facts and so on and can judge whether the COAS(and others) is to be punished or not… it’s basically public sentiment that will judge him.

As an example - there is a celebrated PAF officer who is always on news channels but there are rumors on him having procured some properties unfairly yet because it isn’t a pressing issue or national spotlight we dont care.

At the end, there is no one clean in Pakistan but all Pakistanis want is a messiah instead of self reform thrown hard work.

You want generals to remain in the line - don’t put them on a pedestal everytime you elect a corrupt person or simply don’t try to change the system.
You remember the posts by RWing and Xestan since the time Bajwa got selected as COAS. What did Bajwa do back then ? Maybe he wasnt a carbon copy of RS that most wanted him to be. Military officers are trained as leaders, but they have different leadership styles.

This thread is about future of Bajwa, is this a concern for some ? The guy has garnered so much hatred that people on PDF are actually interested what future holds for him. The future at this point will be the new COAS, not an outgoing COAS as he is the past.

One could coin the term as Bajwa-phobia. Military liked him, not a major coup that could have put him at risk. Bajwa expanded Military and acquired modern equipment in his tenure. All these members howling on about how IK has brough Army in limelight about the plots or privileges that Military gets, well, how many privileges have been cut short ? How many allotted plots have been struck down ? How many Askaris and DHAs have been cancelled ?
None as result of all the rhetoric, when all the enlightened ones of Pakistan gathered and shouted that IK has opened up our eyes about Military.

IK directed people against Military, because he fell down after Military stopped shouldering him. Amazingly, no other entity sided IK, like judiciary or lawyers, as last time these were the major parties that brought down Musharraf. Not even a majority of any section of people from Civil Government sided with him, or a certain section of people, not even police or paramilitary, the media divided on this also. Unfortunately IK wasn't the emperor, the king he thought he was as everyone (Govt, semi-Govt, civilians) who worked under him didn't flinch when he left his seat. One can say they were protecting their own interests, why would they take a fall when PM takes a fall. They are patriotic Pakistanis who are poised to fulfill their duties under any leadership- right. The corrupt Pakistani public didn't stand with its leader unlike the patriotic public of Turkey stood with Erdogan. Pakistani public allowed Shahbaz to take office and here we are today. You can prefix corrupt before public and Shahbaz both, - they deserve each other. Most of the members here didnt like my comments about how I termed Pakistani public as corrupt. Denying truth doesnt deny its existence.

Military is playing a role in defense of country and Military will keep giving to officers and soldiers what it has promised to them.

I would say Military has kept its word since April 2022, so did Bajwa unless we witness a last second martial law when the new COAS is about to take command. This is actually what many have wished, may have theoretically sentenced in their reports and many have predicted in media too. Just that Bajwa has been alleged of doing everything behind closed doors and its hard to find proof for all that by public. A martial law will be a clear cut indication - yes we have been right all along, Bajwa has committed all those million crimes which he has been accused of by PTI and media. Wouldn't that be an enthralling victory for everyone who has been saying Bajwa did this and that. All those curses against him will become halal then.

We don't know yet what the next COAS brings, once Bajwa retires.

Bajwa may get spit on, hated, and even cursed publicly - he has spent his tenure as COAS and done the job. He will get his entitlements from Army and will live his life with privileges granted to a retired COAS.
 
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You remember the posts by RWing and Xestan since the time Bajwa got selected as COAS. What did Bajwa do back then ? Maybe he wasnt a carbon copy of RS that most wanted him to be. Military officers are trained as leaders, but they have different leadership styles.

This thread is about future of Bajwa, is this a concern for some ? The guy has garnered so much hatred that people on PDF are actually interested what future holds for him. The future at this point will be the new COAS, not an outgoing COAS as he is the past.

One could coin the term as Bajwa-phobia. Military liked him, not a major coup that could have put him at risk. Bajwa expanded Military and acquired modern equipment in his tenure. All these members howling on about how IK has brough Army in limelight about the plots or privileges that Military gets, well, how many privileges have been cut short ? How many allotted plots have been struck down ? How many Askaris and DHAs have been cancelled ?
None as result of all the rhetoric, when all the enlightened ones of Pakistan gathered and shouted that IK has opened up our eyes about Military.

IK directed people against Military, because he fell down after Military stopped shouldering him. Amazingly, no other entity sided IK, like judiciary or lawyers, as last time these were the major parties that brought down Musharraf. Not even a majority of any section of people from Civil Government sided with him, or a certain section of people, not even police or paramilitary, the media divided on this also. Unfortunately IK wasn't the emperor, the king he thought he was as everyone (Govt, semi-Govt, civilians) who worked under him didn't flinch when he left his seat. One can say they were protecting their own interests, why would they take a fall when PM takes a fall. They are patriotic Pakistanis who are poised to fulfill their duties under any leadership- right. The corrupt Pakistani public didn't stand with its leader unlike the patriotic public of Turkey stood with Erdogan. Pakistani public allowed Shahbaz to take office and here we are today. You can prefix corrupt before public and Shahbaz both, - they deserve each other. Most of the members here didnt like my comments about how I termed Pakistani public as corrupt. Denying truth doesnt deny its existence.

Military is playing a role in defense of country and Military will keep giving to officers and soldiers what it has promised to them.

I would say Military has kept its word since April 2022, so did Bajwa unless we witness a last second martial law when the new COAS is about to take command. This is actually what many have wished, may have theoretically sentenced in their reports and many have predicted in media too. Just that Bajwa has been alleged of doing everything behind closed doors and its hard to find proof for all that by public. A martial law will be a clear cut indication - yes we have been right all along, Bajwa has committed all those million crimes which he has been accused of by PTI and media. Wouldn't that be an enthralling victory for everyone who has been saying Bajwa did this and that. All those curses against him will become halal then.

We don't know yet what the next COAS brings, once Bajwa retires.

Bajwa may get spit on, hated, and even cursed publicly - he has spent his tenure as COAS and done the job. He will get his entitlements from Army and will live his life with privileges granted to a retired COAS.
I will just add that the military draws from the corrupt public as well - so expecting saints from the current COAS(whose family profited massively) or RS(whose literal palace sits in the outskirts of lahore) and the one before him(whose family did the same) is unrealistic and naive. The patriotism is not a exclusive characteristic - it goes from institution to individuals and so on.
But the so does corruption and power grabbing and so on. This is Pakistan’s Army - so that aspect of corrupt public is going to be part of them regardless of relative proportions or not.

Talking of following American orders - the owner of the largest hotel chain in Pakistan happily ignores accomplished Pakistani professionals to hire less qualified goras only because of chamri.
because he knows that at the end even if you bring a US qualified and experienced Pakistani, the local politicians and bigwigs wont try to mess with the Gora
 
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گزشتہ چند روز کے شاہکار عدالتی فیصلے: شاہ زیب قتل کیس مرکزی ملزمان شاہ رخ جتوئی وغیرہ رہا پرویز مشرف دہشت گرد قاتلانہ حملہ ملزم رہا انسانی حقوق علمبردار پروین رحمان قتل ملزمان رہا اسحاق ڈار آمدن سے زائد اثاثہ جات کیس کا خاتمہ:pakistan: زندہ باد
Save Bajwa too..
 
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I will just add that the military draws from the corrupt public as well - so expecting saints from the current COAS(whose family profited massively) or RS(whose literal palace sits in the outskirts of lahore) and the one before him(whose family did the same) is unrealistic and naive. The patriotism is not a exclusive characteristic - it goes from institution to individuals and so on.
But the so does corruption and power grabbing and so on. This is Pakistan’s Army - so that aspect of corrupt public is going to be part of them regardless of relative proportions or not.

Talking of following American orders - the owner of the largest hotel chain in Pakistan happily ignores accomplished Pakistani professionals to hire less qualified goras only because of chamri.
because he knows that at the end even if you bring a US qualified and experienced Pakistani, the local politicians and bigwigs wont try to mess with the Gora
Sir..
That is not the excuse. No matter who loads the gun, the one who fire is the main culprit. What is the point of having all the privileges and perks and still doing the corruption? Can you compare it with the corruption of a clerk? or corruption of a modest earning SHO?

Yes, none should have taken at first place. The nation pay sales, income tax etc and survive on low income so that our bureaucrats/politicians have comfort environment to take just and efficient decisions.

Doing corruption on such hardened earned money is a worse crime as one is squeezing money from poor and not serving in return.

Let's see if all corrupts can employ the same logic on judgement day as people cannot use the same logic and blame iblees for all wrong doing. It is always our choices.

Bajwa may get spit on, hated, and even cursed publicly - he has spent his tenure as COAS and done the job. He will get his entitlements from Army and will live his life with privileges granted to a retired COAS.​
گزشتہ چند روز کے شاہکار عدالتی فیصلے: شاہ زیب قتل کیس مرکزی ملزمان شاہ رخ جتوئی وغیرہ رہا پرویز مشرف دہشت گرد قاتلانہ حملہ ملزم رہا انسانی حقوق علمبردار پروین رحمان قتل ملزمان رہا اسحاق ڈار آمدن سے زائد اثاثہ جات کیس کا خاتمہ پاکستان زندہ باد
Sure, that is logical and he will escape the punishment until 'the contents of the graves will be brought out' (100/9)
 
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uncle pajwa already packed his bags has his oversea assets ready for him to slip in. somebdy should write a book about mir pajwa. this will kill him.
 
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گزشتہ چند روز کے شاہکار عدالتی فیصلے: شاہ زیب قتل کیس مرکزی ملزمان شاہ رخ جتوئی وغیرہ رہا پرویز مشرف دہشت گرد قاتلانہ حملہ ملزم رہا انسانی حقوق علمبردار پروین رحمان قتل ملزمان رہا اسحاق ڈار آمدن سے زائد اثاثہ جات کیس کا خاتمہ:pakistan: زندہ باد
Save Bajwa too..
میرے ابو مرحوم جب بھی خبروں میں ائین کا زکر ہوتا تو مسکرا کر کچھ بڑبڑا دیتے تھے برسوں بعد جب میں جب سمجھدار ہوا تو ایک دن پوچھا کہ ابو اپ کیوں ائین کے زکر پر طنز کرتے ہیں تو انہوں نے مجھے لاجواب کر دیا ، کہا میرے بیٹے یہ اشرفیہ نے ایک کتاب مرتب کی ہے جس کو قران پاک سے زیادہ مقام و مرتبہ دے دیا گیا ہے ، اس کتاب میں ان جرنیلوں ، ججوں، سیاست دانوں یعنی اشرفیہ نے ہزاروں ایسے قانون مرتب کر رکھے ہیں قران کی بجائے ائین نفاز عمل کر دیا گیا، اس ائین کی کتاب میں انکے خود کے پھنسنے کا کوئی ایک رستہ ہے جبکہ انکے بچ نکلنے کے ہزاروں رستے رکھے گئے ہیں ، یہ سپریم کورٹیں ، یہ تھانے ، یہ جیلیں، یہ شہادتیں صرف ہم غریب عوام کے لیے بنائے گئے ہیں ، یہ بات اس وقت میری سمجھ میں نہیں ائی لیکن اب ہر روز انکی بات میرے دماغ میں اتی ہے اور ہر روز میں ابو کی بات کی تائید کرتا ہوں
یہ بھڑووے اہستہ اہستہ ہماری جرڑوں کو کھوکھلا کر رہے ہیں ہماری شناخت مٹا رہے ہیں جب تک یہ ائین کی کتاب کو فالو کرتے رہیں گے میرے رب کی مار اس ملک اور اسکے باسیوں کو پڑتی رہے گی
 
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