Picturing Pakistan's Past: The Beatles, Booze And Bikinis

[Azazel]

Next time , kindly judge a religion by the actions of its Prophets and the message of its books rather than by the actions of its followers ... A very sincere advice ...

Nope,i afraid its not possible.For an outsider who don't believe in neither prophet nor his books,Only way to judge a religion are the actions of its followers.

 

[Secur]

No Sir in Islamic Societies these things have to be enforced

Clarify me the concept of " free will " and " Heaven and Hell " then ? If I am to be punished in this very world for my actions then why the hell are those for !

What does the Supreme book says then ? Let there be no compulsion in religion ( 2:256 )

Who the hell is your lot to judge my faith in this world and on what grounds ? Who the **** has given you the right to become " the God's viceroy " on earth ? and this time , I dont want your constantly parroted crap that you are posting from your first post in this thread !

Only way to judge a religion are the actions of its followers.

I do not like Adolf Hitler but does that stop me from reading Mein Kampf ? Therein lies your problem , Mr Bond !

 

[Azazel]

I do not like Adolf Hitler but does that stop me from reading Mein Kampf ? Therein lies your problem , Mr Bond !

A very bad analogy.You did not understand my post at all.Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, and now a days people read it out of curiosity,they want to find out what one of the world's evilest man was thinking.

 

[SHAMK9]

Sir Islamic laws has to be enforced on Muslim societies or other wise people will stand up to do it on their own and that can lead to civil war Sir because that Islamic laws are order of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW

You must be a hard core lover of taliban thn because they are doing the exact same thing by imposing their views on others using violence/force and naming it the 'true islam', sorry friend, i don't agree with you on this one.

 

[Secur]

A very bad analogy.You did not understand my post at all.Hitler wrote Mein Kampf, and now a days people read it out of curiosity,they want to find out what one of the world's evilest man was thinking.

Nah , you despise him and his views and yet you read his books but that thing suddenly changes when it comes to Islam which you treat on the same ground ! Even reading and understanding the books you hate most ( even with bias ) will do the trick , that was the point I was trying to make ...

 

[Secur]

You must be a hard core lover of taliban thn because they are doing the exact same thing by imposing their views on others using violence/force and naming it the 'true islam', sorry friend, i don't agree with you on this one.

These people are confused themselves lest they enlighten anyone on any Islamic issue ... Suddenly , looking at the world through a kaleidoscope doesn't seem like a good idea ... Still I will wait for his answer to my questions ...

 

[Azazel]

Nah , you despise him and his views and yet you read his books but that thing suddenly changes when it comes to Islam which you treat on the same ground ! Even reading and understanding the books you hate most ( even with bias ) will do the trick , that was the point I was trying to make ...

No you are wrong.My father is a Muslim, and I have read Quran and I never hate or carry any prejudice towards it.But,I just don't agree with what it says.I find no reason to believe it is truth.
But you on the other hand does seem to have a prejudice.You seem to think those people who disagree with your faith and doing it out of hatred towards you and they are your enemies.

 

[t_for_talli]

Next time , kindly judge a religion by the actions of its Prophets and the message of its books rather than by the actions of its followers ... A very sincere advice ...

I didn't commented anything on the religion or prophet. Reference to prophet was to counter his logic.
I still believe that any set of beliefs have to evolve as time progresses because the rules you are following(or you want every one to follow) may be apt for 7th century but not suitable currently

 

[Secur]

I didn't commented anything on the religion or prophet. Reference to prophet was to counter his logic.

Religious discussion are somehow not tolerated here but still there's a famous saying of the Prophet " to gain knowledge even if one has to go to China " - without any mention or restriction of what vehicle or means of transportation ...

But you on the other hand does seem to have a prejudice.You seem to think those people who disagree with your faith and doing it out of hatred towards you and they are your enemies.

Read my posts again ... I merely asked you to judge a religion by the actions of its Prophets or the message of its books than by the action of its followers ... After that , I gave you an analogy which I think you took in the wrong way ... Have I said anywhere that " either you are with us or against us " ?

I do not believe it enforcing anything on anyone ... You do not like to be a Muslim , its fine ... Let there be no compulsion in religion as I quoted before ...

 

[FaujHistorian]

A question to pakistani muslims?
What if Muhammad pbuh, somehow returned to the earth and became a ruler of Pakistan.
How would he rule? What things he would permit & what would he disallow? What laws would he implement & how would he enforce them? What type of liberties he would allow to be exercised publicly & privately?

I am very curious to know from the muslims of Pakistan. Pls treat this as if it was really going to happen.

My dear GDB,

You are jumping way forward in this hypothetical scenario of development of Pak society in the hands of our beloved Messenger phuh.


Let's start from the basics the way it started in His time BEFORE he proclaimed Islam.


1. For his 40 years of life in Pak, he would be known as the most truthful, the most trustworthy, and the most tolerant person.

2. He will be the most fashionable person, with an Iphone (OK android tablet instead of Ipad to keep the balance), in his hands, a wonderful facebook page, and tweeting message of love.

3. He will be an import/export trader by profession, so his business will be known for 110% quality guaranteed, and the best priced.

4. He will be known for not giving any kind of bribes to open LCs and show less dollar amount than actually exported.

5. He will be very charismatic, very popular among young men and women (IK picture not allowed here).

6. He will marry a widow from a rich family for home he did business transaction.

7. He will be driving around in an Audi A6 (OK A4 and playing the song Saudis love Audis)

Once he'd have lived in Pak society for 40 years as the most honest, the most truthful, the most humble person, he would announce that all our religious practices are in fact Islamic for show only, just on the surface.

We cheat, we do not speak truth, we are dishonest, and we are not humble and tolerant.

We burry the intellect of our girls by bombing their schools, we treat our holy book as if it was a god, and we kill anyone who is even accused of ripping a page out of it.

We treat God's messengers as gods. So anyone accused of disrespecting these gods is killed by the mob.

We have adopted the principle of trinity (Quran, Hadees, Mullah -for sunnis) (Quran, Ayatullah's words, Rasool's words-for shias)


He will tell us that we have become pagans in everywhich way except perhaps in the name. All the ills of Kuffar of Macca are now in us.

He will tell us that the whole civilized world thinks of us as primitive pagans who kill their lady healthworkers.

Then he will try to persuade us to leave our pagan ways and start living the truthful life as per Allah's direction.


But we will all get angry.


We'll mutilate his facebook page with curse words, and Islamist hackers will deface his website.

We'll tweet bad words against him

We'll threaten him and his family with dire consequences if he continues to challenge our god(s).

We'll burn down his house,

Then he will flee to America to save his and his families lives.


This is how our zalim and cruel society will try to end his effort towards our reformation.


then who knows if Canada or America will give him asylum on religious grounds. Who knows.

But we will make sure we delete all his postings from every forum,
We'll make sure facebook bans him for life
We'll make sure google forbids his name in the searches.
We'll make sure youtube doesn't carry any of his messages.

And if google, or twitter or facebook or Pak defense forum doesn't agree with such bans on free speech, and a message of humanity, message of truth, and tolerance and honest, we'll riot in the streets, burning our shops, killing our fellow Pakistanis, and bombing foreign embassies.

This is how we'll behave.

And you my dear dear GDB, think we as a country will let him makes laws. Fo-Ged-bout it.



peace to every one.


ps. My dear reader. Now don't raise a storm and ask for deletion of this post. Because you will only be confirming that we are indeed behaving like pagans and kuffar of Macca. Because they too would kill and destroy anyone who challenged their gods and their religion.

 

[Azazel]

Read my posts again ... I merely asked you to judge a religion by the actions of its Prophets or the message of its books than by the action of its followers ... After that , I gave you an analogy which I think you took in the wrong way ... Have I said anywhere that " either you are with us or against us " ?

I do not believe it enforcing anything on anyone ... You do not like to be a Muslim , its fine ... Let there be no compulsion in religion as I quoted before ...

Actions of prophets and message in the books can be interpreted in hundreds of different ways.If that wasn't the case their wouldn't have so many sects.At the end of the day what really matters are the actions of the followers.Every religion must be judged by the actions of its followers.Because that's what really matters.

 

[ashokdeiva]

My dear GDB,

You are jumping way forward in this hypothetical scenario of development of Pak society in the hands of our beloved Messenger phuh.


Let's start from the basics the way it started in His time BEFORE he proclaimed Islam.


1. For his 40 years of life in Pak, he would be known as the most truthful, the most trustworthy, and the most tolerant person.

2. He will be the most fashionable person, with an Iphone (OK android tablet instead of Ipad to keep the balance), in his hands, a wonderful facebook page, and tweeting message of love.

3. He will be an import/export trader by profession, so his business will be known for 110% quality guaranteed, and the best priced.

4. He will be known for not giving any kind of bribes to open LCs and show less dollar amount than actually exported.

5. He will be very charismatic, very popular among young men and women (IK picture not allowed here).

6. He will marry a widow from a rich family for home he did business transaction.

7. He will be driving around in an Audi A6 (OK A4 and playing the song Saudis love Audis)

Once he'd have lived in Pak society for 40 years as the most honest, the most truthful, the most humble person, he would announce that all our religious practices are in fact Islamic for show only, just on the surface.

We cheat, we do not speak truth, we are dishonest, and we are not humble and tolerant.

We burry the intellect of our girls by bombing their schools, we treat our holy book as if it was a god, and we kill anyone who is even accused of ripping a page out of it.

We treat God's messengers as gods. So anyone accused of disrespecting these gods is killed by the mob.

We have adopted the principle of trinity (Quran, Hadees, Mullah -for sunnis) (Quran, Ayatullah's words, Rasool's words-for shias)


He will tell us that we have become pagans in everywhich way except perhaps in the name. All the ills of Kuffar of Macca are now in us.

He will tell us that the whole civilized world thinks of us as primitive pagans who kill their lady healthworkers.

Then he will try to persuade us to leave our pagan ways and start living the truthful life as per Allah's direction.


But we will all get angry.


We'll mutilate his facebook page with curse words, and Islamist hackers will deface his website.

We'll tweet bad words against him

We'll threaten him and his family with dire consequences if he continues to challenge our god(s).

We'll burn down his house,

Then he will flee to America to save his and his families lives.


This is how our zalim and cruel society will try to end his effort towards our reformation.


then who knows if Canada or America will give him asylum on religious grounds. Who knows.

But we will make sure we delete all his postings from every forum,
We'll make sure facebook bans him for life
We'll make sure google forbids his name in the searches.
We'll make sure youtube doesn't carry any of his messages.

And if google, or twitter or facebook or Pak defense forum doesn't agree with such bans on free speech, and a message of humanity, message of truth, and tolerance and honest, we'll riot in the streets, burning our shops, killing our fellow Pakistanis, and bombing foreign embassies.

This is how we'll behave.

And you my dear dear GDB, think we as a country will let him makes laws. Fo-Ged-bout it.



peace to every one.


ps. My dear reader. Now don't raise a storm and ask for deletion of this post. Because you will only be confirming that we are indeed behaving like pagans and kuffar of Macca. Because they too would kill and destroy anyone who challenged their gods and their religion.

The presence of people like you in Pakistan is the reason that there is a good chance for change in a very short time period. I hope that you spread the same thought to the fellow friends arround you and make them reason with any thing that is enforced by the Government or the society. if this individual thought process develops so does the collective thought process of a society.
when I say the above words, don't mistake me as if I am living in a society full of intelects. I wish the same change happens in every part of the world and importantly in INDIA & PAKISTAN & BANGLADESH

 

[Zarvan]

You must be a hard core lover of taliban thn because they are doing the exact same thing by imposing their views on others using violence/force and naming it the 'true islam', sorry friend, i don't agree with you on this one.

Sir I give **** about Taliban Islam is Islam and it has a whole system and its have to be implemented by government with full force Sir once HAZRAT UMAR RA asked people what will you do if I don't decide according to Quran and Sunnah one man stood and took out a sword and said we will do this he praised him Sir that is what Muslims are supposed to do so it will be better if governments do it themselves

Clarify me the concept of " free will " and " Heaven and Hell " then ? If I am to be punished in this very world for my actions then why the hell are those for !

What does the Supreme book says then ? Let there be no compulsion in religion ( 2:256 )

Who the hell is your lot to judge my faith in this world and on what grounds ? Who the **** has given you the right to become " the God's viceroy " on earth ? and this time , I dont want your constantly parroted crap that you are posting from your first post in this thread !



I do not like Adolf Hitler but does that stop me from reading Mein Kampf ? Therein lies your problem , Mr Bond !

Sir this ayat is for Non Muslims we can't force any one to convert to Islam when you are in Islamic State you have to follow rules of Islam and implement them can't run away from them those have to be implemented either government will do it or people will fight for it and take out government of kafris and their touts the followers of Yazeed and implement Islam

 

[Secur]

Sir I give **** about Taliban

Sir this ayat is for Non Muslims we can't force any one to convert to Islam when you are in Islamic State you have to follow rules of Islam and implement them can't run away from them those have to be implemented either government will do it or people will fight for it

Actually , you are one of their lot ... Let me tell you that , as a psychology enthusiast ... What you just did is called " denial to the obvious " ... You are a extremist - rigid and uncompromising in his beliefs while the religion asks for flexibility ... Basically , you suffer from a identity crisis trying to determine exactly who you are - an unconscious turmoil , think that repeatedly telling things would make it prominent and believable and try to attain dominance by any means possible on " things " which gives you satisfaction and pleasure ... I can tell you more if you are willing to listen ...

Sorry , the meaning of this verse is very clear , do not put doubts on it ... You have again done what I asked you not to - repeated the same parroted stuff again ... I asked you to clarify if humans can be made to pay for their mistakes in this very world then why is there a need for the " after world " and why has the God given man the " free will " if you are so keen to enforce his laws on them ... I also asked you who are you to judge my faith and declare me an infidel or Muslim and how has your so called lot became the God's viceroy on earth ... No satisfactory answer , why ? On the other hand , your lot is actually the influential one today in the country and looking at the state of the country suffering from terrorist attacks and killing people just because they dont agree with you , nobody would be interested in accepting your theories about Islam ... Yes , I see the fundos fighting for it and the chaos it brings to my country ...

P.S You are actually maligning Islam by asking to enforce everything " on the point of sword " when it isn't the case in the religion ...

 

[baajey]

every country has had its bad times. pakistan is having bad times now.
you guys will be up and enjoy your glory days soon enuf......