picture of India's first Scorpene-class submarine KALVARI in tri colour and water

[kaykay]

Dude like i said... this German Particular sub has many problem... check out the complaints from Greek and SK Navies.. the noise level is very high.. and it has a problem with its AIP also.. while Amur is one of the quite subs ever build by russians and packs a damn firepower with brahmos .

The sub they're offering( type 214) is a export version of type 212, from which all the High tech has been removed. and i don't think so type 212's hull will be suitable for SSBN or SSN...(correct me if wrong with actual info) @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy can shed some light..

Interestingly we chose Scorpene over German Type 214 back in P-75. Lets see how this unfold for P-75I. I personally see Amur 1650( with modifications) as favourite as of now. Though this is pure speculations....who knows even modified Scorpenes can be selected.

 

[Akasa]

Deadliest submarines Chinese don't want to fcuk with

That kind of talk only devalues the point that it was trying to get across.

 

[Ind4Ever]

That kind of talk only devalues the point that it was trying to get across.

Fact Fact Fact

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Well i see a different approach to VLS talk as i believe the idea is to get the new Brahmos NG leaner missile to fit the conventional 533mm torpedo tube something similar to Exocet or 3M-54 Klubs. If that breakthrough comes then it changes the ability of using same Brahmos NG as Anti Ship or even LACM mode. Brahmos NG does have a diameter target of 50 cms and target of 5 M length. Of course will await for final missile to come out before such a "prepostrous" claim

Now German 214 can be a G2G deal. The only question is what could be the sweetner in that? If we learn almost same things as we did in MDL for Scorpenes then perhaps it wont be enticing. If we get the double- non magnetic steel hull and its silent propulsion technology... I am not sure about it but who knows..

If its French who gets even more Scorpene follow on orders at MDL only, the sweetner could be the selling nuclear technology to India.There is also a chacne an upgraded Scorpene class with a bit more tonnage may also come (ala Marlin Class) in a pvt ship building yard. For Indian SSN project assistance via France’s Barracuda SSN due to the size, 4,765 tons (surfaced), and modernity that India wants can become a reason.. The only issue is IN wants a platform similar to Arihant for SSNs with a bigger tonnage to accommodate a longer patrolling and a bigger reactor. MOD wants Yasen type SSNs and a much more modern vessel like Inspired from barracuda if Yasen idea does not click via Russian assistance.
One good addon for french subs could be the expertise we gained via MDL making scorpenes can potentially use in better hull fabrication and more indigenous percentage in the total submarine. Its like using the knowledge acquired and building on that.. A question mark is what really N tec provided or said to be provided?


Amur1650 with VLS tube plug is good no doubt but other than VLS plug it offers nothing new but similar at best to Scorpenes SSKs.. When we already getting SSN/SSBN support from Russians i still feel Amur 1650 wont be of much use.. Still but Amur 1650 with VLS pack can cost around 500-550 Mn and without VLS pack but in future Brahmos NG capable may just cost around $75-100 Mn more than Kilos advance (a cost of Amur 1650 may be $425-450Mn)


A new line of thinking - No P75I
A word to wonder is P75I was INR 60K Crores or say 9Bn dollars for 6 boats. Now if i get 3 scorpenes follow on at 800x3=2.4Bn and 2 Kilo advance at 350x2=0.7Bn then it adds up to 5 sub with 3.1 Bn cost only... You can make it 4Bn and get either a kilo or 2 or one more scorpene also.. and it saves 5Bn dolls which can be then diverted to other projects or even to SSN projects. I feel RM MP may have thought this line of thinking if the news of Kilo advance order turns out to be true. And then fast forward to Project 76.

So i believe its all the sweetner which will finally decide what to buy in P75I or go straight to P76

 

[Ind4Ever]

Dude like i said... this German Particular sub has many problem... check out the complaints from Greek and SK Navies.. the noise level is very high.. and it has a problem with its AIP also.. while Amur is one of the quite subs ever build by russians and packs a damn firepower with brahmos .

The sub they're offering( type 214) is a export version of type 212, from which all the High tech has been removed. and i don't think so type 212's hull will be suitable for SSBN or SSN...(correct me if wrong with actual info) @PARIKRAMA @Abingdonboy can shed some light..

Dude It's too early to say anything as of now. But what I heard was that Russia and German already mounted huge diplomatic pressure on Indian government for P75I. Because it's not about 6 submarines alone. But our indigenous modern SSKs which may be starting it's construction on or before 2019. In a middling way of P75 I. We already have prototype of both Russian SSN and SSK. And more Over our main rival is PLAN which operates and ripped off Russian technology for years now. . . Our full underwater potential is charted around P75I. For some extent many would agree Scorpene-class 75 program was a blunder and corruption involved. We should gone for German boats or bigger Scorpene-class subs.

OK hear this story you will like it : During PM Modi visit to Germany very important discussion took place behind the closed doors. All VVIP from Indian defense and German Govt. Many things like terror investment space UNSC seat and many things discussed in a whole new level like never happened before. But one more very important strategy face to face topic was CHINA AND PAKISTAN and SCS and raise of threats faced by India. Main aspect of the talks was about Chinese Nuclear submarines in IOR region on which world's largest trading taking place. Life line of many EU nations are not in EU or US but in IOR. Germany was asked to share 212 Hull non-magnetic steel hull, which makes the Type 212 submarine impossible to be detected by Russian beasts under water. China's technology is full and full based on ripped off Soviet and modern Russian tech. India expressed it's interest in buying these tech from Germany which will make Indian under water fleet the most deadliest in Asia and soon in the world (future).

How was the story?

Am not sure what was German's reply. Some says Germany at first was not willing to give ToT of their top secret tech but finally both agreed for cooperation in Indian SSK and SSN program.

But I don't think the last line is gonna happen either. Or may be. Many rumours are going around. Many points at French help in SSN program and many even believes Russian will play huge role in SSBN and SSK program. But SSK is largely tilting towards Germany...

Wait!!! Twist in this fairy tale too. Recently Japan agreed to make world's largest SSK in Australia which is a good sign. Since Japanese ready to ToT their top secret program probably India may be the next buyer too. If so we could go for 12 SSK under P75I but we don't have stomach to bare it either...

Morale of the story : Russian subs may not be the good choice or will not be selected for P75I. And don't worry about brahmos. India won't select a submarine which can't fire our most potent missile system in the world. Germany already willing to fit in Brahmos for India. So does Japan.

Hope you enjoyed this story of Fairy called P75I

Well i see a different approach to VLS talk as i believe the idea is to get the new Brahmos NG leaner missile to fit the conventional 533mm torpedo tube something similar to Exocet or 3M-54 Klubs. If that breakthrough comes then it changes the ability of using same Brahmos NG as Anti Ship or even LACM mode. Brahmos NG does have a diameter target of 50 cms and target of 5 M length. Of course will await for final missile to come out before such a "prepostrous" claim

Now German 214 can be a G2G deal. The only question is what could be the sweetner in that? If we learn almost same things as we did in MDL for Scorpenes then perhaps it wont be enticing. If we get the double- non magnetic steel hull and its silent propulsion technology... I am not sure about it but who knows..

If its French who gets even more Scorpene follow on orders at MDL only, the sweetner could be the selling nuclear technology to India.There is also a chacne an upgraded Scorpene class with a bit more tonnage may also come (ala Marlin Class) in a pvt ship building yard. For Indian SSN project assistance via France’s Barracuda SSN due to the size, 4,765 tons (surfaced), and modernity that India wants can become a reason.. The only issue is IN wants a platform similar to Arihant for SSNs with a bigger tonnage to accommodate a longer patrolling and a bigger reactor. MOD wants Yasen type SSNs and a much more modern vessel like Inspired from barracuda if Yasen idea does not click via Russian assistance.
One good addon for french subs could be the expertise we gained via MDL making scorpenes can potentially use in better hull fabrication and more indigenous percentage in the total submarine. Its like using the knowledge acquired and building on that.. A question mark is what really N tec provided or said to be provided?


Amur1650 with VLS tube plug is good no doubt but other than VLS plug it offers nothing new but similar at best to Scorpenes SSKs.. When we already getting SSN/SSBN support from Russians i still feel Amur 1650 wont be of much use.. Still but Amur 1650 with VLS pack can cost around 500-550 Mn and without VLS pack but in future Brahmos NG capable may just cost around $75-100 Mn more than Kilos advance (a cost of Amur 1650 may be $425-450Mn)


A new line of thinking - No P75I
A word to wonder is P75I was INR 60K Crores or say 9Bn dollars for 6 boats. Now if i get 3 scorpenes follow on at 800x3=2.4Bn and 2 Kilo advance at 350x2=0.7Bn then it adds up to 5 sub with 3.1 Bn cost only... You can make it 4Bn and get either a kilo or 2 or one more scorpene also.. and it saves 5Bn dolls which can be then diverted to other projects or even to SSN projects. I feel RM MP may have thought this line of thinking if the news of Kilo advance order turns out to be true. And then fast forward to Project 76.

So i believe its all the sweetner which will finally decide what to buy in P75I or go straight to P76

Even for P75 we should opt for bigger scorpene subs as follow on. That would be a very good initiative.

 

[Hindustani78]

 

[surya kiran]

During PM Modi visit to Germany very important discussion took place behind the closed doors. All VVIP from Indian defense and German Govt. Many things like terror investment space UNSC seat and many things discussed in a whole new level like never happened before. But one more very important strategy face to face topic was CHINA AND PAKISTAN and SCS and raise of threats faced by India. Main aspect of the talks was about Chinese Nuclear submarines in IOR region on which world's largest trading taking place. Life line of many EU nations are not in EU or US but in IOR. Germany was asked to share 212 Hull non-magnetic steel hull, which makes the Type 212 submarine impossible to be detected by Russian beasts under water. China's technology is full and full based on ripped off Soviet and modern Russian tech. India expressed it's interest in buying these tech from Germany which will make Indian under water fleet the most deadliest in Asia and soon in the world (future).

You know somebody in the Navy or what? Heard the same sh!t, though not the one about Chinese nuclear submarines. I was also told the Germans are confirmed and the meeting between Merkel and Modi sealed it.

 

[Ind4Ever]

You know somebody in the Navy or what? Heard the same sh!t, though not the one about Chinese nuclear submarines. I was also told the Germans are confirmed and the meeting between Merkel and Modi sealed it.

LOL No just a fairy tale lucky got to be true

 

[Mughal-Prince]

does it have DSI

No but at least its off the deck unlike Trawler LCA

 

[Ind4Ever]

You know somebody in the Navy or what? Heard the same sh!t, though not the one about Chinese nuclear submarines. I was also told the Germans are confirmed and the meeting between Merkel and Modi sealed it.

Germans are hell bent to get P75I and offering maximum amount of support to get it. We made it clear that we are looking for very futuristic stealth warfare technology. As Russia offering to construct most deadliest SSN for India. French too want to chip in with SSBN. Flooding in defence sector in just 1 years. Don't be surprised with the final call. It's most probably going to be GtoG deal rather than tender. Unpredictable government at the center.

 

[$@rJen]

Dude It's too early to say anything as of now. But what I heard was that Russia and German already mounted huge diplomatic pressure on Indian government for P75I. Because it's not about 6 submarines alone. But our indigenous modern SSKs which may be starting it's construction on or before 2019. In a middling way of P75 I. We already have prototype of both Russian SSN and SSK. And more Over our main rival is PLAN which operates and ripped off Russian technology for years now. . . Our full underwater potential is charted around P75I. For some extent many would agree Scorpene-class 75 program was a blunder and corruption involved. We should gone for German boats or bigger Scorpene-class subs.

OK hear this story you will like it : During PM Modi visit to Germany very important discussion took place behind the closed doors. All VVIP from Indian defense and German Govt. Many things like terror investment space UNSC seat and many things discussed in a whole new level like never happened before. But one more very important strategy face to face topic was CHINA AND PAKISTAN and SCS and raise of threats faced by India. Main aspect of the talks was about Chinese Nuclear submarines in IOR region on which world's largest trading taking place. Life line of many EU nations are not in EU or US but in IOR. Germany was asked to share 212 Hull non-magnetic steel hull, which makes the Type 212 submarine impossible to be detected by Russian beasts under water. China's technology is full and full based on ripped off Soviet and modern Russian tech. India expressed it's interest in buying these tech from Germany which will make Indian under water fleet the most deadliest in Asia and soon in the world (future).

How was the story?

Am not sure what was German's reply. Some says Germany at first was not willing to give ToT of their top secret tech but finally both agreed for cooperation in Indian SSK and SSN program.

But I don't think the last line is gonna happen either. Or may be. Many rumours are going around. Many points at French help in SSN program and many even believes Russian will play huge role in SSBN and SSK program. But SSK is largely tilting towards Germany...

Wait!!! Twist in this fairy tale too. Recently Japan agreed to make world's largest SSK in Australia which is a good sign. Since Japanese ready to ToT their top secret program probably India may be the next buyer too. If so we could go for 12 SSK under P75I but we don't have stomach to bare it either...

Morale of the story : Russian subs may not be the good choice or will not be selected for P75I. And don't worry about brahmos. India won't select a submarine which can't fire our most potent missile system in the world. Germany already willing to fit in Brahmos for India. So does Japan.

Hope you enjoyed this story of Fairy called P75I



Even for P75 we should opt for bigger scorpene subs as follow on. That would be a very good initiative.

That's a great story.. hope its true... but even if we go for German one.. will they provide the non-magnatic hull??? if they say no and would want to help our future ssk program with the tech means then hell no... we're not going to get the entire tech..

 

[Agent_47]

Interestingly we chose Scorpene over German Type 214 back in P-75. Lets see how this unfold for P-75I. I personally see Amur 1650( with modifications) as favourite as of now. Though this is pure speculations....who knows even modified Scorpenes can be selected.

Why do everyone here is damn sure it is U214 is on offer considering only RFI is out?.
Also IN has specifically asked for larger displacement and possible VLS.

ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems
Type 216 U-216 Conventional Submarine SSK AIP TKMS HDW Submarine Class 216 Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems Royal Australian Navy datasheet pictures images photos video specification
Type 216 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kaykay]

Why do everyone here is damn sure it is U214 is on offer considering only RFI is out?.
Also IN has specifically asked for larger displacement and possible VLS.

ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems
Type 216 U-216 Conventional Submarine SSK AIP TKMS HDW Submarine Class 216 Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems Royal Australian Navy datasheet pictures images photos video specification
Type 216 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thats correct bro. Type-216 suits Indian requirements more than Type-214. Anyway if Type-214 is selected, it will be with huge modifications like adding VLS etc which is not making sense as Germans could have offered Type-216 instead of Type-214.

 

[Agent_47]

Thats correct bro. Type-216 suits Indian requirements more than Type-214. Anyway if Type-214 is selected, it will be with huge modifications like adding VLS etc which is not making sense as Germans could have offered Type-216 instead of Type-214.

Final offering is only by RFP then evaluation.
Adding VLS and AIP on a smaller sub like U214 will reduce performance considerably.

@Penguin Can you explain advantages X-shaped tail planes and double hulled design on SSks.Looks like all modern ssks have those.

 

[TimeTraveller]

Sorry to ask this stupid question but Why it is red in color?

Earlier it was like

It should be like

.............................