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Pic of J-10B with WS-10X for the 8.1 Anniversary

My dear Friends .. Here is a proof that all its engines fitted with fighter aircrafts are Russian origin.. Prove otherwise..

Updated Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:28 am TWN, By Robert Karniol, The Straits Times/Asia News Network

SINGAPORE -- China can send a man into space and a rocket into lunar orbit but, paradoxically, its defense industry cannot build a top-end aircraft engine. Or an engine sophisticated enough to power advanced surface ships and armored vehicles.

But this broad statement requires a caveat: China's defense industry can indeed design, develop and produce propulsion systems for relatively simple military platforms — certain transport aircraft, patrol boats, some types of main battle tanks and armored personnel carriers. But high-performance combat aircraft, destroyers and similarly demanding platforms are another matter.

Only submarines appear an exception to this general rule. Most new types are fitted with locally developed propulsion systems, although the technology's origins are not known.

This technical shortcoming was most recently highlighted in a report in the Russian newspaper Vedomosti stating that Beijing last month bought 123 AL-31FN turbofan engines from Russian manufacturer NPO Saturn. These cost over US$500 million. The order follows earlier tranches that since 2001 have totaled 930 engines.

The AL-31FN currently powers China's J-10 multirole fighter and J-11A/B air superiority fighter, as well as the J-15 carrier-based fighter which is under development. Russia's Klimov RD-93 engine is fitted on the Chinese JF-17 multirole fighter and FC-1 attack fighter. A French engine drives the Z-11 helicopter and an American one powers the civilian ARJ-21 jet airliner.

Indicative of this trend elsewhere in the People's Liberation Army, the navy's Song-class submarine has MTU diesel engines from Germany, while the Luhai-class destroyer has Ukrainian gas turbines and German diesels. Among ground forces, the ZBL-09 8x8 infantry combat vehicle is fitted with a Deutz engine from Germany and the Type 99 main battle tank has a locally produced power plant derived from German technology.

Just a handful of companies worldwide have truly mastered the engineering challenge of developing high-performance engines, and China's dependence on foreign suppliers is deeply problematic for Beijing. But a new report concludes that change may be imminent.

Gabe Collins and associate professor Andrew Erickson, in a comprehensive study published recently by specialist website China SignPost, focus on military jet power plants.

“The Chinese aerospace industry is driven by four strategic imperatives as it pursues the ability to manufacture large volumes of high-performance aircraft engines — parts dependence avoidance, Russian supply unwillingness, aircraft sales autonomy and poor Russian after-sales service,” the authors state.

They say that quality control remains spotty, resulting in problems with reliability, and key weak points include turbine blade production and process standardization. Beyond these issues, “(China) appears to remain limited with respect to components and systems design, integration and management ... and to making logistical and operational plans at the force level based on reliable estimates thereof.”

Progress is uneven but, the authors add, China's dominant aerospace conglomerate — the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), with 10 subsidiaries and 400,000 employees — has now placed a high priority on engine development and plans over the next five years to invest 10 billion yuan (US$1.5 billion) in jet engine research and development.

This is particularly significant because Russia looks to be an increasingly reluctant supplier, partly because of production pressures due to heightened domestic requirements, but also because of China's rising international sales competitiveness. Such reticence could seriously impede Beijing's push to upgrade its air force with J-10, J-11, J-15 and J-20 fighters — the last of these a fifth-generation fighter under development, with Moscow seemingly hesitant to provide the 117S engine it needs for sufficient power.

“We estimate that, based on current knowledge and assuming no major setbacks or loss of mission focus, China will need two to three years before it achieves comprehensive capabilities commensurate with the aggregate inputs in the jet engine sector and five to 10 years before it is able to consistently mass produce top-notch turbofan engines for a fifth-generation type fighter,” said the study.

“If China's engine-makers can attain the technical capability level that United States manufacturers had 20 years ago, it will be able to power its fourth-generation and fifth-generation aircraft with domestically made engines. These developments would be vital in cementing China as a formidable regional air power and deserve close attention from policymakers.”

Collins and Erickson characterize China's inability to domestically mass produce advanced jet engines of consistent quality as an enduring Achilles' heel in its military aerospace sector. And there are important strategic and commercial implications inherent in overcoming this problem.

Presumably, if more priorities arise, doing so through AVIC's new initiative may also provide lessons that could be applied to ground and naval platforms.

China defense industry faces homemade engine troubles - The China Post

My friend, the news is from July 20th and now we have clear images of the J-10B FLYING with the WS-10 engine. Keep up with the information please.
 
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My dear Friends .. Here is a proof that all its engines fitted with fighter aircrafts are Russian origin.. Prove otherwise..

Updated Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:28 am TWN, By Robert Karniol, The Straits Times/Asia News Network

SINGAPORE -- China can send a man into space and a rocket into lunar orbit but, paradoxically, its defense industry cannot build a top-end aircraft engine. Or an engine sophisticated enough to power advanced surface ships and armored vehicles.

But this broad statement requires a caveat: China's defense industry can indeed design, develop and produce propulsion systems for relatively simple military platforms — certain transport aircraft, patrol boats, some types of main battle tanks and armored personnel carriers. But high-performance combat aircraft, destroyers and similarly demanding platforms are another matter.

Only submarines appear an exception to this general rule. Most new types are fitted with locally developed propulsion systems, although the technology's origins are not known.

This technical shortcoming was most recently highlighted in a report in the Russian newspaper Vedomosti stating that Beijing last month bought 123 AL-31FN turbofan engines from Russian manufacturer NPO Saturn. These cost over US$500 million. The order follows earlier tranches that since 2001 have totaled 930 engines.

The AL-31FN currently powers China's J-10 multirole fighter and J-11A/B air superiority fighter, as well as the J-15 carrier-based fighter which is under development. Russia's Klimov RD-93 engine is fitted on the Chinese JF-17 multirole fighter and FC-1 attack fighter. A French engine drives the Z-11 helicopter and an American one powers the civilian ARJ-21 jet airliner.

Indicative of this trend elsewhere in the People's Liberation Army, the navy's Song-class submarine has MTU diesel engines from Germany, while the Luhai-class destroyer has Ukrainian gas turbines and German diesels. Among ground forces, the ZBL-09 8x8 infantry combat vehicle is fitted with a Deutz engine from Germany and the Type 99 main battle tank has a locally produced power plant derived from German technology.

Just a handful of companies worldwide have truly mastered the engineering challenge of developing high-performance engines, and China's dependence on foreign suppliers is deeply problematic for Beijing. But a new report concludes that change may be imminent.

Gabe Collins and associate professor Andrew Erickson, in a comprehensive study published recently by specialist website China SignPost, focus on military jet power plants.

“The Chinese aerospace industry is driven by four strategic imperatives as it pursues the ability to manufacture large volumes of high-performance aircraft engines — parts dependence avoidance, Russian supply unwillingness, aircraft sales autonomy and poor Russian after-sales service,” the authors state.

They say that quality control remains spotty, resulting in problems with reliability, and key weak points include turbine blade production and process standardization. Beyond these issues, “(China) appears to remain limited with respect to components and systems design, integration and management ... and to making logistical and operational plans at the force level based on reliable estimates thereof.”

Progress is uneven but, the authors add, China's dominant aerospace conglomerate — the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), with 10 subsidiaries and 400,000 employees — has now placed a high priority on engine development and plans over the next five years to invest 10 billion yuan (US$1.5 billion) in jet engine research and development.

This is particularly significant because Russia looks to be an increasingly reluctant supplier, partly because of production pressures due to heightened domestic requirements, but also because of China's rising international sales competitiveness. Such reticence could seriously impede Beijing's push to upgrade its air force with J-10, J-11, J-15 and J-20 fighters — the last of these a fifth-generation fighter under development, with Moscow seemingly hesitant to provide the 117S engine it needs for sufficient power.

“We estimate that, based on current knowledge and assuming no major setbacks or loss of mission focus, China will need two to three years before it achieves comprehensive capabilities commensurate with the aggregate inputs in the jet engine sector and five to 10 years before it is able to consistently mass produce top-notch turbofan engines for a fifth-generation type fighter,” said the study.

“If China's engine-makers can attain the technical capability level that United States manufacturers had 20 years ago, it will be able to power its fourth-generation and fifth-generation aircraft with domestically made engines. These developments would be vital in cementing China as a formidable regional air power and deserve close attention from policymakers.”

Collins and Erickson characterize China's inability to domestically mass produce advanced jet engines of consistent quality as an enduring Achilles' heel in its military aerospace sector. And there are important strategic and commercial implications inherent in overcoming this problem.

Presumably, if more priorities arise, doing so through AVIC's new initiative may also provide lessons that could be applied to ground and naval platforms.

China defense industry faces homemade engine troubles - The China Post

Thumb down to nay sayers. J-15, J-10B and J-11B are going to fly with Chinese engines. The era of dependence on foreign engines will be bygone.
 
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My friend, the news is from July 20th and now we have clear images of the J-10B FLYING with the WS-10 engine. Keep up with the information please.
I think he's too ignorant to tell the two engines apart (even though the differences shown in the pcitures are quite clear). But his "patriotic" fervor would not allow such minor inconvenience as ignorance to get in the way of being self-assured.
 
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My dear Friends .. Here is a proof that all its engines fitted with fighter aircrafts are Russian origin.. Prove otherwise..

Updated Wednesday, July 20, 2011 10:28 am TWN, By Robert Karniol, The Straits Times/Asia News Network

SINGAPORE -- China can send a man into space and a rocket into lunar orbit but, paradoxically, its defense industry cannot build a top-end aircraft engine. Or an engine sophisticated enough to power advanced surface ships and armored vehicles.

But this broad statement requires a caveat: China's defense industry can indeed design, develop and produce propulsion systems for relatively simple military platforms — certain transport aircraft, patrol boats, some types of main battle tanks and armored personnel carriers. But high-performance combat aircraft, destroyers and similarly demanding platforms are another matter.

Only submarines appear an exception to this general rule. Most new types are fitted with locally developed propulsion systems, although the technology's origins are not known.

This technical shortcoming was most recently highlighted in a report in the Russian newspaper Vedomosti stating that Beijing last month bought 123 AL-31FN turbofan engines from Russian manufacturer NPO Saturn. These cost over US$500 million. The order follows earlier tranches that since 2001 have totaled 930 engines.

The AL-31FN currently powers China's J-10 multirole fighter and J-11A/B air superiority fighter, as well as the J-15 carrier-based fighter which is under development. Russia's Klimov RD-93 engine is fitted on the Chinese JF-17 multirole fighter and FC-1 attack fighter. A French engine drives the Z-11 helicopter and an American one powers the civilian ARJ-21 jet airliner.

Indicative of this trend elsewhere in the People's Liberation Army, the navy's Song-class submarine has MTU diesel engines from Germany, while the Luhai-class destroyer has Ukrainian gas turbines and German diesels. Among ground forces, the ZBL-09 8x8 infantry combat vehicle is fitted with a Deutz engine from Germany and the Type 99 main battle tank has a locally produced power plant derived from German technology.

Just a handful of companies worldwide have truly mastered the engineering challenge of developing high-performance engines, and China's dependence on foreign suppliers is deeply problematic for Beijing. But a new report concludes that change may be imminent.

Gabe Collins and associate professor Andrew Erickson, in a comprehensive study published recently by specialist website China SignPost, focus on military jet power plants.

“The Chinese aerospace industry is driven by four strategic imperatives as it pursues the ability to manufacture large volumes of high-performance aircraft engines — parts dependence avoidance, Russian supply unwillingness, aircraft sales autonomy and poor Russian after-sales service,” the authors state.

They say that quality control remains spotty, resulting in problems with reliability, and key weak points include turbine blade production and process standardization. Beyond these issues, “(China) appears to remain limited with respect to components and systems design, integration and management ... and to making logistical and operational plans at the force level based on reliable estimates thereof.”

Progress is uneven but, the authors add, China's dominant aerospace conglomerate — the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), with 10 subsidiaries and 400,000 employees — has now placed a high priority on engine development and plans over the next five years to invest 10 billion yuan (US$1.5 billion) in jet engine research and development.

This is particularly significant because Russia looks to be an increasingly reluctant supplier, partly because of production pressures due to heightened domestic requirements, but also because of China's rising international sales competitiveness. Such reticence could seriously impede Beijing's push to upgrade its air force with J-10, J-11, J-15 and J-20 fighters — the last of these a fifth-generation fighter under development, with Moscow seemingly hesitant to provide the 117S engine it needs for sufficient power.

“We estimate that, based on current knowledge and assuming no major setbacks or loss of mission focus, China will need two to three years before it achieves comprehensive capabilities commensurate with the aggregate inputs in the jet engine sector and five to 10 years before it is able to consistently mass produce top-notch turbofan engines for a fifth-generation type fighter,” said the study.

“If China's engine-makers can attain the technical capability level that United States manufacturers had 20 years ago, it will be able to power its fourth-generation and fifth-generation aircraft with domestically made engines. These developments would be vital in cementing China as a formidable regional air power and deserve close attention from policymakers.”

Collins and Erickson characterize China's inability to domestically mass produce advanced jet engines of consistent quality as an enduring Achilles' heel in its military aerospace sector. And there are important strategic and commercial implications inherent in overcoming this problem.

Presumably, if more priorities arise, doing so through AVIC's new initiative may also provide lessons that could be applied to ground and naval platforms.

China defense industry faces homemade engine troubles - The China Post

You guy are behaving like a perfect idiot。The design of WS10A is come from American turbofan's,not russia's

The new of Singapore were talking complete nonsense.so that there is no part right in your infs
These pics of j10b, j11b,j15 with ws10a are just the best available evidence now.

kT1bg.jpg



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all the j-15s we've seen so far in clear pics are equipped with ws-10 engines. the article is written by some lazy guy without doing proper research, and the indian guy posting this error as proof...lol
 
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oh boy! i'm having thoughts of playing a game of ping pong.Here's a question,can they the indians tell the diffrence of a AL-31/WS-10,no?:hitwall:
Next time u guys should just show em little bits of petals pics,just to make it more fun.

Note: all war is deception (Sun Tzu):bunny:
 
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Nice job guys, it seems the TH engine is now completely mature.

Yep, we are making the best 3rd gen fighter, hopefully it gonna be the same with our 4th gen fighter. :cheers:

Interestingly it was not until around 1990 that the US had an engine in the same class as the WS-10A in mass production. China seems like it is around 20 years behind the US in jet engine technology.
 
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Interestingly it was not until around 1990 that the US had an engine in the same class as the WS-10A in mass production. China seems like it is around 20 years behind the US in jet engine technology.

The WS-10 series now has similar lifespan to the PWF-100 series, but it has more powerful thrust in comparison.

Therefore it is a superior jet engine, even 20 years of later induction can still be acceptable.
 
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Interestingly it was not until around 1990 that the US had an engine in the same class as the WS-10A in mass production. China seems like it is around 20 years behind the US in jet engine technology.

Currently 20 years would be an optimistic estimation.
 
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The WS-10 series now has similar lifespan to the PWF-100 series, but it has more powerful thrust in comparison.

Therefore it is a superior jet engine, even 20 years of later induction can be acceptable.

I was referring to when the F100-PW-229 came into mass production, which has a very similar thrust and also thrust: weight ratio to the WS-10A.

20 years now means that China easily now has all the base infrastructure required to produce the WS-15 engine for the J-20.
 
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