Panama leak Case Proceedings - JIT Report, News, Updates And Discussion

[Farah Sohail]

Farq Kia parta Hai.. uss ka naam ajaey tou uss ka beta ya damaad PM ban jaeyga, balkay phir tou zaroor banega. Jahan awam ne gadhay ke gosht ke ewaz apna future bech dia ho, woh ye deserve karti hai. Army ko kyun bura bhala kahain... Woh vote thori daaltay hain. Aik hadd tak ensure karsaktay hain ke elections munsifana hon, iss se ziada kuchh mahi.

By the way, aakhri ittela ye thi ke compromise nahi hua hai. Yeh bhi hosakta hai ke ch. Nisar ka bluff ho. But I am with PA whatever they have decided in favor of Pakistan. I am 110% sure, that current PA leadership is dealing with the issues quite differently but effectively. And I am talking about the whole military leadership, not one or two individuals.

Pata hai...main bhtt sochnay aur analyse karnay ke baad ek conclusion par pohanchi hun.and this is not an emotional response but a well considered and well thought out opinion/belief now...

Woh ye ke..national security ke jo so called issues hotay hain..like memo case ya dawn leaks..in par army ki taraf se jo bhtt shor machaya jaata hai,,and they cry wolf..ye actually sirf backdoor deal ya phir army apna koi share lenay ke liye hype create kiaa jata hai.. Army ko background main apnay liye koi favorable deal chahye hoti hai..aur in national security issues ko use kiya jaata hai...apnay liye koi favor lenay ke liye... Army ka kabhi bhi ye maqsad nahi hota ke waqayi in par koi saza ho....bas they use it as a threat to politicians and then get a better bargain deal for themselves...chahy defence budget lena ho ya phir foreign policy main share chahye ho.. But these issues like memo gate and dawn leaks are only used as bargaining chip... Aur public itni bewaqoof hai ke jahan national security issue ko army ki taraf se hype kia jaata hai...hum samajhtay hain ke waqayi ye tu bhtt bari cheez hai..is par culprits ko saza honi chahye..lekin army ke liye woh sirf ek bargaining tool hota hai..

Politicians know this very well...tab hi tu woh army aur aisy national security issues create karnay se nahi dartay.. Politicians ko pata hai ye baat..isi liye...woh bhi army ko unka share de kar ya jo woh maang rahay hon...woh de kar araam se deal kar lete hain aur army ko woh mil jata hai jo woh chahtay hain... Actually sab public ko bewaqoof banaa kar apna apna faida dekhtay hain... Suna hai ke 2014 ke dharna main army ne foreign policy le kar NS se maamlat settle kar liye thay..although dharna was not natl security issue like memo case or dawn leaks..lekin maqsad kehnay ka yeh hai....ke bas...army ne koi na koi apna faida lena hota hai...ya woh kisi bhi situation ko apnay haqq main use kar letay hain...

Main ne dawn leaks, aur memo case par bhtt socha hai....ke in par koi action kiun nahi hua? Iska jawab ye hai ke army never wanted to take any action on these issues.. They used these issues as threat for politicians, for some time.....and then when they get something for themselves too, in this deal.....tu phir woh chapter close hojata hai.... Aur hum jaisi awaam bechari is umeed par hi rehtay hain ke natl security ke culprits ko saza milni chahye....hum nahi jaantay ke jis maqsad ke liye un issues ko hype kiya jaata hai..jab woh maqsad haasil hojata hai..tu un issues ko phir fauran hi dabaa diya jata hai...

Ye mera koi emotional response nahi hai...balke haqeeqat yehi hai... Iss liye main ne tu yehi sabaq seekha hai..ab aayenda kisi so called national security issue ko serious nahi lena.... Ek tarah se ye bhi noora kushti hi hoti hai.. Public ko bataaya jaata hai ke ye bhtt serious matter hai..its threat to country ...aur background main apnay liye share le liye jaata hai...aur maamla khatam kar diya jaata hai... Aur yahan tu public ki bhtt short term memory bhi hai..tu sab ko faida hota hai

@PakSword @The Accountant @Verve

 

[PakSword]

Pata hai...main bhtt sochnay aur analyse karnay ke baad ek conclusion par pohanchi hun.and this is not an emotional response but a well considered and well thought out opinion/belief now...

Woh ye ke..national security ke jo so called issues hotay hain..like memo case ya dawn leaks..in par army ki taraf se jo bhtt shor machaya jaata hai,,and they cry wolf..ye actually sirf backdoor deal ya phir army apna koi share lenay ke liye hype create kiaa jata hai.. Army ko background main apnay liye koi favorable deal chahye hoti hai..aur in national security issues ko use kiya jaata hai...apnay liye koi favor lenay ke liye... Army ka kabhi bhi ye maqsad nahi hota ke waqayi in par koi saza ho....bas they use it as a threat to politicians and then get a better bargain deal for themselves...chahy defence budget lena ho ya phir foreign policy main share chahye ho.. But these issues like memo gate and dawn leaks are only used as bargaining chip... Aur public itni bewaqoof hai ke jahan national security issue ko army ki taraf se hype kia jaata hai...hum samajhtay hain ke waqayi ye tu bhtt bari cheez hai..is par culprits ko saza honi chahye..lekin army ke liye woh sirf ek bargaining tool hota hai..

Politicians know this very well...tab hi tu woh army aur aisy national security issues create karnay se nahi dartay.. Politicians ko pata hai ye baat..isi liye...woh bhi army ko unka share de kar ya jo woh maang rahay hon...woh de kar araam se deal kar lete hain aur army ko woh mil jata hai jo woh chahtay hain... Actually sab public ko bewaqoof banaa kar apna apna faida dekhtay hain... Suna hai ke 2014 ke dharna main army ne foreign policy le kar NS se maamlat settle kar liye thay..although dharna was not natl security issue like memo case or dawn leaks..lekin maqsad kehnay ka yeh hai....ke bas...army ne koi na koi apna faida lena hota hai...ya woh kisi bhi situation ko apnay haqq main use kar letay hain...

Main ne dawn leaks, aur memo case par bhtt socha hai....ke in par koi action kiun nahi hua? Iska jawab ye hai ke army never wanted to take any action on these issues.. They used these issues as threat for politicians, for some time.....and then when they get something for themselves too, in this deal.....tu phir woh chapter close hojata hai.... Aur hum jaisi awaam bechari is umeed par hi rehtay hain ke natl security ke culprits ko saza milni chahye....hum nahi jaantay ke jis maqsad ke liye un issues ko hype kiya jaata hai..jab woh maqsad haasil hojata hai..tu un issues ko phir fauran hi dabaa diya jata hai...

Ye mera koi emotional response nahi hai...balke haqeeqat yehi hai... Iss liye main ne tu yehi sabaq seekha hai..ab aayenda kisi so called national security issue ko serious nahi lena.... Ek tarah se ye bhi noora kushti hi hoti hai.. Public ko bataaya jaata hai ke ye bhtt serious matter hai..its threat to country ...aur background main apnay liye share le liye jaata hai...aur maamla khatam kar diya jaata hai... Aur yahan tu public ki bhtt short term memory bhi hai..tu sab ko faida hota hai

@PakSword @The Accountant @Verve

You are right to a certain extent. Actually, most of the points you have raised are accurate. This is what we discussed 6-8 month back that Dawn Leaks par hona kuchh nahi hai, lekin it will be used as a tool.

But one thing I must tell you, jo deals bhi PA karti hai uss ke peechay bhi maqsad Pakistan ki bhalai hi hoti hai..

Yeh jo hum sab har waqt use kartay rehtay hain word "compromise", iss ka matlab hum yeh letay hain ke PA ne situation accept karli hai, without getting something more significant. Yeh soch ghalat hai.. Yahan itnay baray baray masail paray hain, ke PA ko har soorat har taraf dekhna hota hai..

Dhakkan awam jab dhakkan politicians ko le kar aati hai, uss waqt koi nahi sochta ke kia hoga, politicians a failure sara PA pe daal dia jata hai... Yeh koi nahi dekhta ke NS ko crores main vote milay thay, aur iss sab ke baad bhi milaingay, lekin buri sirf Army hai.. Unhon ne hi action lena hai.. Saray idaray tabah hogaey, adlia se le ke NAB, FBR, SECP, AG, etc etc, lekin kuchh masla ho tou qasoorwar PA hi hai.. Vote hamain PMLN aur PPPP ko dena hai, expect PA se karna hai ke woh deliver karay.. iss se bari munafiqat kia hogi?

Yeh jo aap aur main internet pe baith kar Pakistan ka rona rotay rehtay hain, hum jaisay log pooray Pakistan main sirf 10% hi hongay.. although shayad 50% adult internet users hongay.. most of the internet users sirf youtube, facebook, chatting, bollywood movies and news aur adult content ke liey use kartay hain.. Jo baqi ke 50% hain, unhain tou internet, information aur kisi aur achi cheez se koi sarokaar hi nahi hai.. woh mast log hain.. Aaj nawaz shareef qeemay walay naan khilata hai, tou vote usay detey hai, kal koi aur khilaega tou usay de daingay.. Aisi awam ke saath, hum 10% expect sirf PA se kartay hain ke woh action le gi.. Kia yeh munafiqat nahi hai?

Aap ne tou sirf shayad national security issues ka socha, unn main aik akhbari khabar thi, aur doosra koi memo tha.. jin donon cheezon ka asar bhi khatam hochuka to be very honest.. Abhi aap ne asal national security issue tou bilkul nazar andaaz kardia.. woh hai aap ka external debt, jo ke approx. 70% of GDP pohanch chuka hai.. Aaj Maryam ko khabar leak karwanay pe saza dedain, kal uss ka beta ya damaad kaheen ziada maqbooliat ke saath wapis aayega.. aur debt main din doogni raat chogni taraqqi karwaega.. Aap ko andaza hi nahi hai ke economic front pe Pakistan ki haalat kitni kharaab hai.. memogate ya newsgate shayad Pakistan ko undo na karsakain, external debt waqai karsakta hai.. kia yeh national security issue nahi hai? kia PA ko kuchh karna chahiey iss par? sirf aik hi idara reh gaya hai? Kahan hai Accountant General? Kahan hai State Bank of Pakistan? Sirf PA se kyun tawaqquat hain?

90% awam kharab, 99% idaray kharaab, khuwaab main hamain chheechray nazar aatay hain..

Mere paas bolnay ko buhat kucch hai, aaj socha tha ke apnay dil ki bharaas nikalunga.. lekin agar main pages pe pages bhar dun, tab bhi yeh nahi hosakay ga..

Allah muaf karay, Nabi (SAW) ki shaan main gustaakhi karnay walay ko maar dete hain, Namaz parhtay nahi.. sood hum sab letey hain.. lekin Nabi (SAW) se muhabbat ka dawa aisa ke jhooti sachi information pe bhi galay kaat dein.. Nabi ki birthday hazaron pounds wazni cake se kartay hain, usi birthday main bijli chori ki use kartay hain.. wah wah! kia baat hai.. expectation itni high hain ke dunya main hum se achi koi qaum nahi..

@Accountant

 

[Farah Sohail]

But one thing I must tell you, jo deals bhi PA karti hai uss ke peechay bhi maqsad Pakistan ki bhalai hi hoti hai..

To be very honest....i am not sure, i agree with what u said in this line...
Inhein sirf apna share ya faida lena hota hai... Hum bhtt democracy ka rona har waqt rotay rehtay hain....ke army iss liye koi strict action nahi leti...kiun ke woh democracy ko derail nahi karna chahtay.. System chaltay rehna chahtay hain... Agar dawn leaks ya memo case par koi action liya...tu democracy ko khatra hai...right?

Aap mujhe ek baat batayeein.. Agar Musharraf wali situation aaj dobara repeat hojaye.. COAS flight main kahin se wapis aarahay hon..aur PM unka plane land karnay na de...Pakistan main...jaisy Musharraf ke saath hua tha...tu tab army kia karay gi? Kia aaj bhi dobara army wohi nahi karay gi..jo Musharraf ke time main kiya? Ya phir araam se COAS ko marnay dey gi..ke plane crash hojaye..ya kisi doosre mulk main land karaa dein ge..araam se....taakay bas jamhooryat derail na ho? Kia tab democracy ke baary main socha jaaye ga? Ke COAS ka plane ek tarah se hijack hogaya..aur unhein land kRnay nahi de rahay...aisy main kitnay army generals uss waqt jamhooryat bachany ka soch rahay honge..agar aaj bhi dobara wohi situation repeat ho! Sach sach batayein?

Har doosri baat main ye keh diya jaata hai..ke army democracy derail nahi karna chahti..lekin agar COAS ki zindagi khatray main hogi...tu kia uss waqt apnay COAS, unki life aur izzat ko bachayein ge ya democarcy ko? Sach sach btaayein......Agar baqi sab issues ke liye democracy ke bhashan detay hain..tu phir jab apnay idaaray par baat aaye...tab bhi he yaad rakha karein na.... Jahan hazaaron Pakistanion ki life ki qurbani dii jaa chuki hai..wahan phir apnay COAS ki bhi de dein, aur agar unki zindagi khatray main ho..aur tab bhi democracy ko hi yaad kar liya karein......jaisy har doosre issue main kiya jaata hai..

Jaisy main ne kaha..ke army is selfish too.....just like everyone else

Rahi dawn leaks ki sirf akhbari khabar honay ki baat... Baat ye hai ke ussy sirf ek akhbari khabar ki tarah iss liye great nahi kiya jaa sakta ke..dawn leaks ek national security ki meeting horahi thee..us ki fake story plant ki gayi hai..at time of almost war between India /Pak... Ye sirf ek planted khabar nahi thee...balke national security meeting ki details ko fabricate kar ke plant kiya gaya tha... Agar iss par saza nahibhoti...jo ke nahi hogi.....tu kia guarantee hai...ke kal India /Pak ki war horahi ho...aur uss waqt national security meeting ki info ko leak na kar diya jaaye, to the enemy? Main tu heraan hun ke isay sirf ek akhbari khabar kaisy kaha jaa sakta hai..jis main apni taraf se national security meeting ki discussion ko leak.....balke leak nahi...uski ghalat info plant ki gayi ho... Kal ko actual details of natl security meeting bhi leak ki jasakti hain....at time of war... Iss dawn leaks ke issue par compromise kar ke..uske repurcussions ko kiyun nahi dekhaa jaaraha..aur sirf ek akhbari khabar keh kar isay kaisy ignore kiya jaasakta hai? Kargil main uss waqt ki govt ne kia role play kia tha....kia sab bhool gaye hain? Lekin yahan har ek ko sirf apnay liye favors chahyein

 

[Baghial]

army dont give a shit about dawn leaks
and the govt dont give a shit about panama leaks
the least but not least the judicary dont give a shit about public of pakistan

 

[Farah Sohail]

Dhakkan awam jab dhakkan politicians ko le kar aati hai, uss waqt koi nahi sochta ke kia hoga, politicians a failure sara PA pe daal dia jata hai... Yeh koi nahi dekhta ke NS ko crores main vote milay thay, aur iss sab ke baad bhi milaingay, lekin buri sirf Army hai.. Unhon ne hi action lena hai.. Saray idaray tabah hogaey, adlia se le ke NAB, FBR, SECP, AG, etc etc, lekin kuchh masla ho tou qasoorwar PA hi hai.. Vote hamain PMLN aur PPPP ko dena hai, expect PA se karna hai ke woh deliver karay.. iss se bari munafiqat kia hogi?

Yeh jo aap aur main internet pe baith kar Pakistan ka rona rotay rehtay hain, hum jaisay log pooray Pakistan main sirf 10% hi hongay.. although shayad 50% adult internet users hongay.. most of the internet users sirf youtube, facebook, chatting, bollywood movies and news aur adult content ke liey use kartay hain.. Jo baqi ke 50% hain, unhain tou internet, information aur kisi aur achi cheez se koi sarokaar hi nahi hai.. woh mast log hain.. Aaj nawaz shareef qeemay walay naan khilata hai, tou vote usay detey hai, kal koi aur khilaega tou usay de daingay.. Aisi awam ke saath, hum 10% expect sirf PA se kartay hain ke woh action le gi.. Kia yeh munafiqat nahi hai?

Aap ne tou sirf shayad national security issues ka socha, unn main aik akhbari khabar thi, aur doosra koi memo tha.. jin donon cheezon ka asar bhi khatam hochuka to be very honest.. Abhi aap ne asal national security issue tou bilkul nazar andaaz kardia.. woh hai aap ka external debt, jo ke approx. 70% of GDP pohanch chuka hai.. Aaj Maryam ko khabar leak karwanay pe saza dedain, kal uss ka beta ya damaad kaheen ziada maqbooliat ke saath wapis aayega.. aur debt main din doogni raat chogni taraqqi karwaega.. Aap ko andaza hi nahi hai ke economic front pe Pakistan ki haalat kitni kharaab hai.. memogate ya newsgate shayad Pakistan ko undo na karsakain, external debt waqai karsakta hai.. kia yeh national security issue nahi hai? kia PA ko kuchh karna chahiey iss par? sirf aik hi idara reh gaya hai? Kahan hai Accountant General? Kahan hai State Bank of Pakistan? Sirf PA se kyun tawaqquat hain?

90% awam kharab, 99% idaray kharaab, khuwaab main hamain chheechray nazar aatay hain..

Mere paas bolnay ko buhat kucch hai, aaj socha tha ke apnay dil ki bharaas nikalunga.. lekin agar main pages pe pages bhar dun, tab bhi yeh nahi hosakay ga..

Allah muaf karay, Nabi (SAW) ki shaan main gustaakhi karnay walay ko maar dete hain, Namaz parhtay nahi.. sood hum sab letey hain.. lekin Nabi (SAW) se muhabbat ka dawa aisa ke jhooti sachi information pe bhi galay kaat dein.. Nabi ki birthday hazaron pounds wazni cake se kartay hain, usi birthday main bijli chori ki use kartay hain.. wah wah! kia baat hai.. expectation itni high hain ke dunya main hum se achi koi qaum nahi..

@Accountant

Acha ab reh gayi ye baat..ke awaam inn politicians ko vote deti hai.. Pehli baat tu yeh hai ke..main abhi iss behas main nahi parti ke elections ka system kitna fair hai? Woh ek alag behas hai...for some other time..

Aap pehle mujhe ye batayein ke..inn politicians ke saath NRO kon karta hai? Kon apna share aur apni kursi bachanay ke liye,,international powers ki guarantees le kar..inke saath deal karta hai? Har baat main awaam ko qusoorwar sabit karna bhtt asaan hai..ke awaam inhein vote detay hain...hum kuch nahi karsaktay...wow.

Nawaz Sharif aur benazir tu bahar chalay gaye thay na? Unke saath deal kar ke..un par corruption ke cases khatam kar ke kon wapis laaya tha? Awaam wapis laayi thee...unhein politics main....ya phir international powers aur Amy ne deal ki thee? Reh gayi vote ki baat tu us waqt tu ye dono hi parties theen...inhi main se kisi ko vote milna tha... PTI tu front par itni nahi thee...us waqt.. Lekin unhein wapis kon laaya? Kis ne corruption cases khatam kiye? Us waqt ke COAS Musharraf and DG ISI Gen kiyani ne..international powers ke saath deal kar ke...Aur phir saara ilzaam awaam ko de dena ....jis ko humari elite ne kabhi intentionally literate nahi honay diya... Aur election rigging alag.. Awaam ko ilzaam dena kitna asaan hai?

Ye NRO ka hi phall hai, jo uske baad 8 saal se hum aaj tak bhugat rahay hain.. Since army was directly involved in NRO...tu mera khyal hai ke inki moral obligation hai..ke ek dafa koi acha kaam karein aur is NROed system ko yaa tu reform karein ya phir is se jaan churaayein... Aur iska matlab ye hargiz nahi hai ke main Martial law lagany ko keh rahi hun... Uske ilaawa bhi system ko reform karnay ke bhtt tareeqe hain.. Jaisa ke kuch saalon ke liye civilian technocratic setup aasakta hai.....Lekin masla ye hai..ke yahan koi sincere nahi hai... Army ko bhi sirf apna share aur apnay liye is system main reh kar favors lenay ki pari hai.. Har situation ko army apnay liye use kar ke...uss main se apnay liye favors le letay hain...aur buray phir becharay awaam...

 

[Baghial]

good news about load shedding


its load sharing. between k asif and

a .s ali

 

[PakSword]

To be very honest....i am not sure, i agree with what u said in this line...
Inhein sirf apna share ya faida lena hota hai... Hum bhtt democracy ka rona har waqt rotay rehtay hain....ke army iss liye koi strict action nahi leti...kiun ke woh democracy ko derail nahi karna chahtay.. System chaltay rehna chahtay hain... Agar dawn leaks ya memo case par koi action liya...tu democracy ko khatra hai...right?

Fair enough.. My opinion is different.. It is Army after Allah, which saved Pakistan in the past several years.. Not a single institution in Pakistan (including judiciary) has contributed in anyway in this task... There have been several deals in the past that worked better for Pakistan.

Aap mujhe ek baat batayeein.. Agar Musharraf wali situation aaj dobara repeat hojaye.. COAS flight main kahin se wapis aarahay hon..aur PM unka plane land karnay na de...Pakistan main...jaisy Musharraf ke saath hua tha...tu tab army kia karay gi? Kia aaj bhi dobara army wohi nahi karay gi..

Agar Musharraf jaisa officer hoga, aur uss ke CC jaisay CC hongay tou tou aisa hi hoga, warna chief bhi Gen Jahangir Karamat ki tarah pehlay hi isteefa dedega.. Musharaf jaisay commando buhat kam hotay hain.. aur agar hongay bhi tou jitna qarz aap ke upar hai, aaj koi mai ka laal Musharraf wali harkat kar ke consequences bardaasht nahi karsakta.. Pakistan will not be able to survive..

Har doosri baat main ye keh diya jaata hai..ke army democracy derail nahi karna chahti..lekin agar COAS ki zindagi khatray main hogi...tu kia uss waqt apnay COAS, unki life aur izzat ko bachayein ge ya democarcy ko? Sach sach btaayein......Agar baqi sab issues ke liye democracy ke bhashan detay hain..tu phir jab apnay idaaray par baat aaye...

Jaisa main ne pehlay kaha, agar derail karna bhi chahain tou Pakistan survive nahi karsakta.. sorry to tell you.. lehaza abb democracy ko koi khatra nahi hai..

Jahan hazaaron Pakistanion ki life ki qurbani dii jaa chuki hai..wahan phir apnay COAS ki bhi de dein, aur agar unki zindagi khatray main ho..aur tab bhi democracy ko hi yaad kar liya karein......jaisy har doosre issue main kiya jaata hai..

Why you guys don't think PA as an institution just like other institutions in Pakistan?

Rahi dawn leaks ki sirf akhbari khabar honay ki baat... Baat ye hai ke ussy sirf ek akhbari khabar ki tarah iss liye great nahi kiya jaa sakta ke..dawn leaks ek national security ki meeting horahi thee..us ki fake story plant ki gayi hai..at time of almost war between India /Pak...

Hosakta hai khabar sachi ho.. planted na ho.. hosakta hai PM aur unn ke hamnawaon ne kaha ho ke hamain international level pe JuD ki wajah se kafi nuqsaan uthana parr raha hai.. lets scrap this support.. yeh khabar leak hogaee ho.. hosakta hai planted ki story iss liey banai gaee ho ke duniya ko batana ho ke hum involve nahi, non state actors ke saath..



Anyway, PA is an institution like others. Lets start treating it the same way we treat other institutions..

Awam 20 crore hai, ummeedain 1 million se lagai huee hain..

 

[Farah Sohail]

Fair enough.. My opinion is different.. It is Army after Allah, which saved Pakistan in the past several years.. Not a single institution in Pakistan (including judiciary) has contributed in anyway in this task... There have been several deals in the past that worked better for Pakistan.

Examples...of deals which worked better of Pakistan? And then count deals..which had disastrous consequences? Glaring example of which is NRO..jis ke asraat se hum aaj tak nahi nikal sakay

Why you guys don't think PA as an institution just like other institutions in Pakistan?

You are right on this one... We should treat and consider army just like any other insitituition in Pakistan, like police, NAB, FIA, judiciary etc etc... Ye humari hi ghalti thee tht we thought tht they are better...iss liye hum ne inn se kuch umeedein lagaa li theen...

I totally agree with you on this..... The sooner we realise tht army is like any other instituition of Pakistan, the better for every one.. Atleast main individually tu ab is baat par poora amal karun gi

Hosakta hai khabar sachi ho.. planted na ho.. hosakta hai PM aur unn ke hamnawaon ne kaha ho ke hamain international level pe JuD ki wajah se kafi nuqsaan uthana parr raha hai.. lets scrap this support.. yeh khabar leak hogaee ho.. hosakta hai planted ki story iss liey banai gaee ho ke duniya ko batana ho ke hum involve nahi, non state actors ke saath..

Agar khabar sach thee...tab tu aur bhi ziada khatarnaak baat hai ke ek high level secret and confidential national security meeting..which was happening at the time of almost war between India and Pakistan..lus waqt kaisy aur kis ne us meeting ki actual details leak ki? Iss ko ignore karnay ke repurcussions kia hosaktay hain....kisi ne socha hai? Kal ko actual war horahi ho, India /Pak ki..aur aisi hi koi aur national security meeting ho.llaur koi enemy ko discussions leak kar dey phir? Ya National Command authority ki meeting ki discussion leak kar de ..to the enemy ..phir?

Anyway, PA is an institution like others. Lets start treating it the same way we treat other institutions..

Agreed 100% .. Lets treat army the same way, we treat other instituitions of Pakistan...

@PakSword

 

[PakSword]

Acha ab reh gayi ye baat..ke awaam inn politicians ko cote deti hai.. Pehli baat tu yeh hai ke..main abhi iss behas main nahi parti ke elections ka system kitna fair hai? Woh ek alag behas hai...for some other time..

Aapki aur meri supreme court ne kaha hai ke elections theek thay.. thori si irregularities theen.. Main tou SC ki baat manunga..

Chalain thori der ke liey maan letey hain election system was not working up to the standard, kia Jamaat e Islami, ya Imran Khan ne PM banna tha? We must accept that NS was the most popular leader in 2013, and probably still is.. Abb keh dain qasoor Army ka hai iss main..

Aap pehle mujhe ye batayein ke..inn politicians ke saath NRO kon karta hai? Kon apna share aur apni kuris bachanay ke liye,,international powers ki guarantees le kar..inke saath deal karta hai? Har baat main awaam ko qusoorwar sabit karna bhtt asaan hai..ke awaam inhein vote detay hain...hum kuch nahi karsaktay...wow.

NRO uss waqt kia gaya tha jab aap ki awam Musharraf ke khilaaf sarkon pe aagaee thee.. Uska survive karna mushkil hogaya tha.. Despite so many bad qualities, Musharaf was dealing with economic issues quite efectively.. But it was your and my awaam jo sarkon pe aagaee aur theek thaak banday marnay lagay.. NRO tou hona hi tha.. aap ki awam chahti thi ke benazir aur nawaz shareef ko apnay upar sawar karain.. aur aisa hi hua.. abb gham kaisa.. they got what they deserved..

Aap pehle mujhe ye batayein ke..inn politicians ke saath NRO kon karta hai? Kon apna share aur apni kuris bachanay ke liye,,international powers ki guarantees le kar..inke saath deal karta hai? Har baat main awaam ko qusoorwar sabit karna bhtt asaan hai..ke awaam inhein vote detay hain...hum kuch nahi karsaktay...wow.

As I said earlier, NRO nahi hona tha agar awam nahi chahti..

Nawaz Sharif aur benazir tu bahar chalay gaye thay na? Unke saath deal kar ke..un par corruption ke cases khatam kar ke kon wapis laaya tha? Awaam wapis laayi thee...unhein politics main....ya phir international powers aur Amy ne deal ki thee? Reh gayi vote ki baat tu us waqt tu ye dono hi parties theen...inhi main se kisi ko vote milna tha... PTI tu front par itni nahi thee...us waqt.. Lekin unhein wapis kon laaya? Kis ne corruption cases khatam kiye? Us waqt ke COAS Musharraf and DG ISI Gen kiyani ne..international powers ke saath deal kar ke...Aur phir saara ilzaam awaam ko de dena ...

Yes, awaam international players ke haathon kheltay hain. aap ki parties ki funding poori duniya se hoti hai, aur sadly, aapki awaam OLX ki tarah qeemay walay nanon ke liey bikti hai.. aik din kisi hukumraan ke khilaaf ehtijaaj karna ho, uss ki qeemat aik naan..

Duniya main sab se ziada international players ke liey awaam ko control karna jitna Pakistan main easy hai shayad ethopia jaisay mulk main bhi nahi hoga.. Hamaray tou pait bharay log bhi biktay hain..

jis ko humari elite ne kabhi intentionally literate nahi honay diya.

Iss main PA ka qasoor hai? Aap ka education department hai, jaein ehtejaaj karain..

Ye NRO ka hi phall hai, jo uske baad 8 saal se hum aaj tak bhugat rahay hain.. Since army was directly involved in NRO...tu mera khyal hai ke inki moral obligation hai..ke ek dafa koi acha kaam karein aur is NROed system ko yaa tu reform karein ya phir is se jaan churaayein... Aur iska matlab ye hargiz nahi hai ke main Martial law lagany ko keh rahi hun...

Aapke aur mere dimaagh main baat tou yehi hai ke Martial Law lagna chahiey.. main tou iska 100% supporter hun.. kyunke muamlaat isi tarha chaltay rahaingay agar nahi laga tou.. main tou openly yeh baat karta hun ke Pakistan ke masail ka hal Martial law hai.. koi manay ya na manay.. lekin aaj hukumranon ne woh chance bhi nahi rehnay diya.. now the country can't survive with all those embargoes that come with Martial Law..

Uske ilaawa bhi system ko reform karnay ke bhtt tareeqe hain..

Koi tareeqa nahi hai... koi bhi tareeqa nahi hai.. Technocrats ki government kon laega? PA? phir awaam sarkon pe hogi do saal ke baad qeemay walay naan khanay ke baad tou phir koi NRO kar ke barracks main wapis jana parega..

Examples...of deals which worked better of Pakistan? And then count deals..which had disastrous consequences?

Achi deals nazar nahi aateen.. Iss liey count karna itna asaan nahi hota.. Mostly related to foreign affairs and defense budget.. You need money to survive against one of the largest importers of arms... If government says that they will cut the military spending, Army has to come in with something to get something...

Aap ke barabar main Rafael ki deals horahi hain.. aur aap ke wazeer e khazana Asian Dev Bank ke board of directors main se hain.. aap ki spending ka bara zareeya soodi qarzay hain, jinhain aap ke wazeer e khazana bari aasani se kamzr case bana ke reject karwasaktay hain... aap ko continuous funding chahiey.. to fight with insurgents, to keep minimum deterrence etc.

Glaring example of which is NRO..jis ke asraat se hum aaj tak nahi nikal sakay

aap nahi chahti hongi NRO... more than 75% awam tou yehi chahti thee aur unhon ne pichlay 10 saalon main unhi ko muntakhib kia jin ko woh chahtay hain.. sorry but you can't close your eyes and say that awam tou buhat achi hai lekin yeh hukumraan unkay upar kaheen aur se zabardasti musallat kardiey jatay hain.. I don't buy this argument..

Awaam jisay chahti hai, jis se muhabbat karti hai, usi ko lati hai.. 10-20% dhandli se results tabdeel nahi hotay.

 

[IceCold]

Memo gate main tu commission report bhi aagayi thee... SC main case bhi chal raha tha... Tab bhi kia hogaya?

Baji ka naam har haal main dissenting notes main aana zuroori tha..taakay political nuqsan pohanchta ..baji ko.. Lekin ab ye nahi honay jaa raha... Govt pehle hi din se yeh chah rahi thee..jo ab honay jaa raha hai

Hona kuch nahi hai...is case main.. Sirf baji ka naam dissenting notes main aana chahye tha....lekin ab aisa bhi nahi honay jaa raha

Kya commission ka faisla ahh gaya ha dawn leaks per? Phappa kuttni ko clean chit mil gai ha?

 

[PakSword]

اب گناہ و ثواب بکتے ہیں
مان لیجئے جناب بکتے ہیں

پہلے پہل غریب بکتے تھے
اب تو عزت مآب بکتے ہیں

شیخ، واعظ، وزیر اور شاعر
سب یہاں پر جناب بکتے ہیں

دور تھا انقلاب آتے تھے
آج کل انقلاب بکتے ہیں ​

 

[Farah Sohail]

Aapke aur mere dimaagh main baat tou yehi hai ke Martial Law lagna chahiey.. main tou iska 100% supporter hun.. kyunke muamlaat isi tarha chaltay rahaingay agar nahi laga tou.. main tou openly yeh baat karta hun ke Pakistan ke masail ka hal Martial law hai.. koi manay ya na manay.. lekin aaj hukumranon ne woh chance bhi nahi rehnay diya.. now the country can't survive with all those embargoes that come with Martial Law..

Koi tareeqa nahi hai... koi bhi tareeqa nahi hai.. Technocrats ki government kon laega? PA? phir awaam sarkon pe hogi do saal ke baad qeemay walay naan khanay ke baad tou phir koi NRO kar ke barracks main wapis jana parega..

Maimmartial law ki supporter hun...lekin saath hi mera ye bhi maanna hai..ke agar Martial law international scenario ki wajah se nahi lagg sakta tu theek hai...its not the only option... Martial law bhi agar lagay tu saari zindagi ke liye tu nahi lagg sakta na? Us main kiun ke army direct aajati hai...tu kuch arse baad unki badnaami ziada hoti hai, aur phir international powers se backdoor deals karni parti hain..

Aur waisy bhi economic situation ki wajah se martial law lag bhi nahi sakta..tu kia haath par haath dhar ke bethay rehna chahye? Agar kuch saalon ke liye civilian technocratic setup aajaye...jis main ruthless accountabilit ho...atleast instituitions ko reform kar diya jaaye..like NAB, FIA, police..foreign funding ko check kiya jaaye to political parties....uske baad elections karaye jayein..this to me, seems to be the only workable ootion for Pakistan... Warna tu Pakistan kahan jaa raha hai? Ye hum sab jaantay hain....

Jhan tak deals ki baat hai... Tu main us Hadith ka aksar zikr karti hun jis ka mafhoom ye hai ke pichli qoumein is liye hi barbaad huein ke woh kamzoron ko saza deti theen...aur taaqatwaron ko chor deti theen....is hadith ke context main zara NRO ko dekh lein....

Agar humari establishment ko lagta hai ke politicians ke saath ...different issues par backdoor deals kar ke woh Pakistan ki bhalayi karrahay hain...tab tu in par sirf afsos hi kiya jaasakta hai... Ya tu ye log khul kar keh dein ke ye Hadith ko nahi maantay...aurbinko apni aqal par ziada naaz hai..ye khud ko zoada aqalmand samajhtay hain

National security issue..par yaad aaya...40 saal baad Sheikh Hadeena Wajid ne bhi admit kar liya tha ke agartala conpiracy was a fact.and yrue... Lekin uss waqt us conpiracy ke characters ko maaf kar diya gaya tha...us ke baad kiya result nikla ..hum sab jaantay hain na? Us hi tarah Hussain haqqani ne bhi keh diya ke...yes i issued visas on orders of civilian government... Kuch saal baad baji bhi proudly keh dey gi ke haan main dawn leaks main involve thee......main champion of democracy hun

Lekin afsos..hum ne agartala conspiracy aur us ko maaf karnay ke consequences ko dekhnay ke baad bhi maazi se koi sabaq nahi seekha...aur shayad aisy hi kisi aur waqaye ka intezar karrahy hain

 

[IceCold]

Allah muaf karay, Nabi (SAW) ki shaan main gustaakhi karnay walay ko maar dete hain, Namaz parhtay nahi.. sood hum sab letey hain.. lekin Nabi (SAW) se muhabbat ka dawa aisa ke jhooti sachi information pe bhi galay kaat dein.. Nabi ki birthday hazaron pounds wazni cake se kartay hain, usi birthday main bijli chori ki use kartay hain.. wah wah! kia baat hai.. expectation itni high hain ke dunya main hum se achi koi qaum nahi..

Yeh to 16ana baat ki ha app na.

 

[Farah Sohail]

Kya commission ka faisla ahh gaya ha dawn leaks per? Phappa kuttni ko clean chit mil gai ha?

Ch Nisar ne kal press conference main kaha hai ke dawn leaks ki report 1-2 din main aanay wali hai..aur sab members ka ittefaq hogaya hai.. Pehle ch nisar ne hi kaha tha ke split hai committee main.. Ab ch nisar keh rahay hain ke sab members ka consensus hogaya hai..matlab jo dissenting notes thay..ab woh nahi hain...is ka matlab yehi hai ke baji ko clean chit de di gayi hai, aur 1-2 din main report aajayegi

 

[mingle]

Ch Nisar ne kal press conference main kaha hai ke dawn leaks ki report 1-2 din main aanay wali hai..aur sab members ka ittefaq hogaya hai.. Pehle ch nisar ne hi kaha tha ke split hai committee main.. Ab ch nisar keh rahay hain ke sab members ka consensus hogaya hai..matlab jo dissenting notes thay..ab woh nahi hain...is ka matlab yehi hai ke baji ko clean chit de di gayi hai, aur 1-2 din main report aajayegi

Farah when Pajama leaks verdict coming ?

Ch Nisar ne kal press conference main kaha hai ke dawn leaks ki report 1-2 din main aanay wali hai..aur sab members ka ittefaq hogaya hai.. Pehle ch nisar ne hi kaha tha ke split hai committee main.. Ab ch nisar keh rahay hain ke sab members ka consensus hogaya hai..matlab jo dissenting notes thay..ab woh nahi hain...is ka matlab yehi hai ke baji ko clean chit de di gayi hai, aur 1-2 din main report aajayegi

When Mayam safder came back from UK deal was done that time she still runing media cell from PM house .i Will not support Army next time all they do beat drums then make a deal unless army have this kind of attitude more leaks will happen in future .When ppl know they can get away with this then they will do it .