Panama Case - Post Verdict Discussion and Updates

[Verve]

If only looking at past, then yes you have the right to be sceptical.

Some people can't accept any change and resort to conspiracy theories based on what happened in past.

Whatever you say to him, his response will always be the same. He will always show Pakistan in the bad light, no matter what.

 

[Shane]

Laws of nature apply in the jungle Sir. Civilized nations go by rule of law, which most definitely is not the case with the Army currently.

On the contrary, You are blaming the Army when it is just calling a spade, a spade.

Why does it hurt you so much when army is content with not medling in politics.

I admit that despite my own initial desire that it should meddle just to kill its own created monster and level the playing field instead of waiting for the slow process of law, but army is contend in the law taking its course.

Why does it suits you just to blame army?

Name one nation where establishment or deep state does not have a strong role to play.

Idealism had an accident involving realism in your case a long long time ago. Dont you see that your rhetoric is heading towards a head on collision with your own imaginary myth of idialism that does not even exist in USA leave alone your mother of democracy India.

Civilized nations!

Law of nature applies everywhere or do you think that civilization is supra natural or artificial that survival of the fittest does not apply to it?

 

[VCheng]

On the contrary, You are blaming the Army when it is just calling a spade, a spade.

Why does it hurt you so much when army is content with not medling in politics.

I admit that despite my own initial desire that it should meddle just to kill its own created monster and level the playing field instead of waiting for the slow process of law, but army is contend in the law taking its course.

Why does it suits you just to blame army?

Name one nation where establishment or deep state does not have a strong role to play.

Idealism had an accident involving realism in your case a long long time ago. Dont you see that your rhetoric is heading towards a head on collision with your own imaginary myth of idialism that does not even exist in USA leave alone your mother of democracy India.

Civilized nations!

Law of nature applies everywhere or do you think that civilization is supra natural or artificial that survival of the fittest does not apply to it?

Ignoring your pathetic ad hominem attacks, there is not much substance in your argument. Why would it hurt me either way if the Army does or does not meddle in politics? After all, you destroy your own argument by saying that the Army does not meddle, but it does so in every other country, so it must be okay even if it did.

You should be able to see that what the Army does in Pakistan is patently illegal and a direct violation of their oath, but you choose not to do so. I can accept your choice to remain blind, but it does not make what the Army does neither right nor legal. The present drama with the legal facade has been tried out many times before too, only to fall part later to the detriment of the country. The same recipe is being played out even now. Those who do not learn from history are indeed condemned to repeat it.

My only concern comes from the consequences of such lawlessness: the people of Pakistan continue to suffer and fall behind the rest of the world in social development. There is no denying that either. Of course, it does not affect me directly anymore, but at least I owe it to myself to speak up for the truth, despite being viciously attacked for it by those who benefit from the present system.

 

[Shane]

As I said before, I regard the coming elections, if and when they are held, to be crucial for the country. They need to be held fairly. Already, steps are afoot to not take into account the results of the census to degrade their results, if not downright delegitimize them.

Conspiricy theories are easy to cook up. Census were undertaken by institutons under the control of PMLN LOYAL STOOGES. Who took the steps to degrade the census held under their own nose? Who asked the army to help?

Why fair elections now? So that the corrupt with looted money to win seats can have another field day IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE AND DEMOCRACY?

The elections must be held with a view to make sure that PMLN and PPP get less than 100 seats combined and then we can start across the board accountability and may even start with our bureaucracy for once.

 

[VCheng]

The elections must be held with a view to make sure that PMLN and PPP get less than 100 seats combined and then we can start across the board accountability and may even start with our bureaucracy for once.

Who is this "we" that have the right to to do what you suggest, and by what law and due process?

 

[Shane]

Ignoring your pathetic ad hominem attacks, there is not much substance in your argument. Why would it hurt me either way if the Army does or does not meddle in politics? After all, you destroy your own argument by saying that the Army does not meddle, but it does so in every other country, so it must be okay even if it did.

Your pathetic argument aside, Army has restrained itself and is just contend in staying neutral. Why do you have a problem accepting that?

You should be able to see that what the Army does in Pakistan is patently illegal and a direct violation of their oath, but you choose not to do so. I can accept your choice to remain blind, but it does not make what the Army does neither right nor legal. The present drama with the legal facade has been tried out many times before too, only to fall part later to the detriment of the country. The same recipe is being played out even now. Those who do not learn from history are indeed condemned to repeat it

You quoted the example of rule of law in civilized world, so i showed you a mirror by pointing out the obvious that you selectively choose to keep yourself blind of the fact that establishment has a role to play in government behind the scenes in western nations too and your beloved example of democracy as in India. Why get hyper?

There is no denying that either. Of course, it does not affect me directly anymore, but at least I owe it to myself to speak up for the truth

Selective Half truth and imaginary conspiracy theories with negative assimptions to boot, you really do have the interest of the nation at heart.

 

[VCheng]

Army has restrained itself and is just contend in staying neutral. Why do you have a problem accepting that?

A best, that is an unproven claim at present. I can leave it at that for the time being.

You quoted the example of rule of law in civilized world, so i showed you a mirror by pointing out the obvious that you selectively choose to keep yourself blind of the fact that establishment has a role to play in government behind the scenes in western nations too and your beloved example of democracy as in India. Why get hyper?

When has Martial Law ever been declared in India? Or any "Western" nation?

Selective Half truth and imaginary conspiracy theories with negative assimptions to boot, you really do have the interest of the nation at heart.

My posts remain factual and fair. That is all. The nation can determine its interests for itself. I will just describe things the way they actually are.

 

[Shane]

Who is this "we" that have the right to to do what you suggest, and by what law and due process?

Nawaz, Altaf, Zardari, Fazlurrehman, Asfandyar wali, Imran Khan and Sirajul Haq etc etc lovers and the likes of you and mr combined make up the we

 

[VCheng]

Nawaz, Altaf, Zardari, Fazlurrehman, Asfandyar wali, Imran Khan and Sirajul Haq etc etc lovers and the likes of you and mr combined make up the we

Or may be we can let fair elections take hold without illegal meddling?

 

[Shane]

Or may be we can let fair elections take hold without illegal meddling?

Definately, Fair elections with a leash around the rabid as in pmln ppp.
Who in the world lets the rabid roam around freely

My posts remain factual and fair. That is all. The nation can determine its interests for itself. I will just describe things the way they actually are.

Let me rephrase your hearts desire:

Let the corrupt use ill gotten wealth to steal another election in the name of fair and free. Lol.

When has Martial Law ever been declared in India? Or any "Western" nation?

Finally! You speak the very words i keep repeating dear.

Army as a policy now, is not interested in martial law. Just like western nations and India...

Why does it hurt you soooooo much darling? You have proved my point yourself

 

[VCheng]

Definately, Fair elections with a leash around the rabid as in pmln ppp.
Who in the world lets the rabid roam around freely



Let me rephrase your hearts desire:

Let the corrupt use ill gotten wealth to steal another election in the name of fair and free. Lol.


Finally! You speak the very words i keep repeating dear.

Army as a policy now, is not interested in martial law. Just like western nations and India...

Why does it hurt you soooooo much darling? You have proved my point yourself

Twisting my words around will not change anything. Let us see what the next few months bring for Pakistan. I am in no rush.

If and when and how the next elections are held, we can judge the consequences of this present case upon Pakistan's future better, for good and bad. All will become evident.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Ah yes, I get it now. If Pakistan is similar to NK and Egypt, I have no right to object. Point made. I shall accept Pakistan to be in that category as you have proven it to be the case. Let the fittest survive in Pakistan. No problem for me.

First I have not proven anything about Pak same as NK; I was providing an example how head of states are held accoutable in US and you tried to counter it by putting Pakistan in the same category as NK. You are the one who stated that NK and Egypt are more relevant examples for Pakistan and any examples from civilised countries like US should not be used - atleast on the part where head of states are held accountable?

Your recent posts still show you are carrying out your crusade for rule of law, curtailing army infleunce, and now free and fair elections, after you finally settled on Pakistan being a country like NK and Egypt where none of these matter? You are not willing to accept the examples of Nixon and Trumps accountability by degrading the accountability reference for Pakistan to the likes of Egypt and NK; just so that NS own misuse of power and corruption can be considered acceptable. You cannot ask for rule law under which army s interference is illegal and prevented, and at the same time justify and tolerate NS and co’s corruption and subversion of constitution by categorizing Pakistan with NK and Egypt. These two stances are contradictory.

And for the record Pakistan right now is 100x better than NK and Egypt in terms of freedom, tolerance, democracy and accountability. If we are to see Pakistan progressing as a democratic country, then better examples need to be used as a reference point. And really just stop with the “two wrongs make a right” approach in our arguments.

 

[Realistic Change]

I think the most plausible answer option (re the money trail of few known to the world and several more offshore companies out soon) left for $har camp is to on the lines of ......”Our money trail is invisible due to smog in Lahore”.... this type might work - otherwise all Qatari, Saudi, aur Bartanwi tou khud pakrey gaye hain ....

@Arsalan @PakSword @Imad.Khan @El_Swordsmen @Islam is hope @The Accountant

 

[The Accountant]

Ok then why restriction on Altaf Hussain he has very right to lead MQM and do whatever he want afterall he has won elections in Urban Sindh ...

NS won the last election. The proper way to remove him is by the next elections, not by a manufactured judicial soft coup.

 

[Shane]

Twisting my words around will not change anything.

Don't blame me for your own mental somersault.

When and where did I twist your words? You simply reached the point I predicted in an earlier post: a head on collision with your own rhetoric against Pakistan Army.

@Syed.Ali.Haider :
When has Martial Law ever been declared in India? Or any "Western" nation?

@Shane :
Finally! You speak the very words i keep repeating dear.

Army as a policy now, is not interested in martial law. Just like western nations and India...
XxxxEnd quotexxxX

Why are you so intent on blaming the most disciplined institution that at least has a proper chain of command and a system of checks and balances in place within their own institution instead of the whim of a Monarch or a corrupt Kingpin who steal elections on the basis of their ill gotten wealth.

I loathe and despise the dictators but who were their inciters and collaborators in breaking the constitution?

Why do you have a fashionably selective POV against Pakistan Army alone?

Going by your sporadically and conveniently altering POV post after post and contradictory rhetoric, IK, Zardari, MNS etc etc politicians are all stooges planted or working for the Army. That leaves who to rule by what fair and free and due process?

Simply saying I want everything by the law and constitution and then putting the blame Army, when they are clearly against Martial Law and standing in support of on going efforts to start accountability a cross the board just doesn't cut it.

If FIA or SECP or FBR are not taking action under Ishaq Dar and PMLN stooges against other Panama perpetrators then where does it leave your whole facade of selective accountability and soft coup?

Instead of the likes of you calling it a soft judicial coup, If you are sincere for the rule of law then you should shout your heart out for across the board accountability and not hide behind "why target Nawaz" "why selective accountability" "why not judges and generals held accountable". It sounds lame and a lot like Maryam's media cell and exposes the sympathizers of such.

Let's rally up support for across the board accountability for everyone, be it Musharraf or Nawaz or Zardari or anyone from PTI. Let's support any and every effort to take em down one by one.