Pakistan's long-term national security: insurgencies and national identity.

[ThunderCat]

Nope I disagree with this, I don't think political stability is connected to population size.

I don't entirely disagree. The main summary of my argument is that the smaller the population, the easier to control.

Of course it's not always the case. But definately don't expect stability to get better with population increase.

 

[TheSolution]

I don't entirely disagree. The main summary of my argument is that the smaller the population, the easier to control.

Of course it's not always the case. But definately don't expect stability to get better with population increase.

Only if you seek to control that population by force against their wishes.

No matter how large the population, if you're doing your job properly - this means providing effective and competent governance, building a strong national identity, a strong public narrative and controlling anti-state elements - it will all be entirely managable with not much difference.

Pakistani extreme leftist liberals/LGBTs and marxists pose a bigger risk than people realise, they are sympathisers of terrorist groups and empower them on a national institutional level especially ethnic ones, and weaponise Islamic ones for their own political interests. Their inferiority complex towards western culture/lifestyle poses a destabilisation threat.

Pakistan must strongly crackdown on these elements covertly if it wants to keep society in order while tackling insurgencies and anti-state elements.

China does all of the above perfectly and that's why it can handle an over 1 billion population - their Internet firewall helps a lot against foreign propaganda trying to rile up populations. And they provide tangible progression to their people.

I can't hate on the army entirely it does what it does thinking it's doing an extremely good job in their mind - but there is room for much better but their ego restricts them growing. Westerners are the complete opposite, a man can be incredibly experienced and educated but he will hear out others' opinions and consider their viability.

And they need to empower civilian populations that will co-operate with them. They have done some good which a lot of people overlook in all their negative press.

 

[manpk77]

Shalwar bina miya dekha hai kabhi? That is the current identity of Pakistan. World calls us Beggars and Bankrupts, even our Pm told that.

Instead focusing on identity of Indians it will be fruitful to focus on our own situation I believe.

 

[TNT]

Only if you seek to control that population by force against their wishes.

No matter how large the population, if you're doing your job properly - this means providing effective and competent governance, building a strong national identity, a strong public narrative and controlling anti-state elements - it will all be entirely managable with not much difference.

Pakistani extreme leftist liberals/LGBTs and marxists pose a bigger risk than people realise, they are sympathisers of terrorist groups and empower them on a national institutional level especially ethnic ones, and weaponise Islamic ones for their own political interests. Their inferiority complex towards western culture/lifestyle poses a destabilisation threat.

Pakistan must strongly crackdown on these elements covertly if it wants to keep society in order while tackling insurgencies and anti-state elements.

China does all of the above perfectly and that's why it can handle an over 1 billion population - their Internet firewall helps a lot against foreign propaganda trying to rile up populations. And they provide tangible progression to their people.

I can't hate on the army entirely it does what it does thinking it's doing an extremely good job in their mind - but there is room for much better but their ego restricts them growing. Westerners are the complete opposite, a man can be incredibly experienced and educated but he will hear out others' opinions and consider their viability.

And they need to empower civilian populations that will co-operate with them. They have done some good which a lot of people overlook in all their negative press.

U made an excellent point. Just add that the liberals n westernized elite is actually the top army leadership. I am a tribal but been blessed and have remained close to these elites, have socialized in their clubs n gatherings and if uve been close to them ull know they r the epitome of the cancer u defined. These generals will drink whisky n have dance parties at night and then give sermon on jihad to proxies in the morning. Ofcourse when i mention army, i mean the top leadership and not the soldiers n lower officers, who are actually one of the bravest lot.

 

[ThunderCat]

Shalwar bina miya dekha hai kabhi? That is the current identity of Pakistan. World calls us Beggars and Bankrupts, even our Pm told that.

Instead focusing on identity of Indians it will be fruitful to focus on our own situation I believe.

I addressed a completely different argument. Ask an interprator to compare the posts if you have difficulty comprehending. If you want to discuss the country's situation, then I will respond accordingly.

But since you brought up beggers, India already has nearly half a billion of them.

You worry about what the world calls us, i'll worry about the betterment of my country. Good evening.

 

[manpk77]

I addressed a completely different argument. If you want to discuss countries situation, then I will respond accordingly.

You worry about what the world calls us, i'll worry about the betterment of my country. Good evening.

Keep living like an ostrich

 

[TheSolution]

U made an excellent point. Just add that the liberals n westernized elite is actually the top army leadership. I am a tribal but been blessed and have remained close to these elites, have socialized in their clubs n gatherings and if uve been close to them ull know they r the epitome of the cancer u defined. These generals will drink whisky n have dance parties at night and then give sermon on jihad to proxies in the morning. Ofcourse when i mention army, i mean the top leadership and not the soldiers n lower officers, who are actually one of the bravest lot.

I agree with you strongly here and I've also heard many rumours about them and their children. In the past it wasn't like this, our leaders were strong in their values and this was recognised by everyone. But the recent crop are beghairats, almost have inferiority complexes with their identity and want to become cheap copies of the white man from lifestyle to clothing, etc.

They need to understand that Pakistan's society/identity by it's foundation is very different to this, we never strived to create a liberal secular Pakistan to begin with and nor do majority of people support it. This means their actions are cause of destabilisation at the very base.

 

[ThunderCat]

Keep living like an ostrich

I don't need to. You've done it for me.

 

[manpk77]

I don't need to. You've done it for me.

Read the topic. It says national security, so financial situation is not national security for you or what? People are in stress and you are talking about some false supremacy. Are you nuts or what?

 

[ThunderCat]

Read the topic. It says national security, so financial situation is not national security for you or what? People are in stress and you are talking about some false supremacy. Are you nuts or what?

No just responding to your nonsenical posts, only to be responded to someone who seems paranoid and mentally ill in combination to his identity crisis. Now bugger off please.

 

[313ghazi]

I would posit that the most urgent core issue is arithmetic. I am a believer in A rising tide lifts all boats. Unfortunately, the situation now is Falling tide is grounding all boats. Additionally, it is also exposing all those not wearing shorts.

100% agree with this. Fix the economy, if everyone has a job, has access to a future and aspirations - watch sect, ethnicity etc become something for paperwork only.

 

[Menace2Society]

I want a well developed, clean and secular Pakistan with no strange looking people on the streets, no one starting people out, no loitering. No blasphemy laws and no judgement.

I want developed city centres that look aesthetic and has more to offer than just food. I want the environment safe enough for kids to be able to get the bus and go to an arcade or eat some food without their parents worrying.

A based but secular Pakistan. Like Turkey. I am not talking crude vulgar India so get that image out of your head. I think Pakistanis think this is what the other side looks like because your point of reference is India over there.

Pakistan will be its best version if its secular because the religious folk are very aggressive by nature and allowing them state level influence is just self sabotage. They are like the class bully. Its like they never grew up, obsessive and immature. They are one track minded and are not adaptable and flexible to change and the country always needs to be agile. These are not good qualities to have at a government level. Change is part of life, you must embrace it or get left behind. They can still do their thing but in their own homes. It will be for the best.

And the fear mongerers who think Pakistan won't survive this shift, total BS. Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be like the UK but he didn't want to alienate the mob and the illiterate underclasses so used religion as a motivator. A form of casus belli so to speak. Oldest trick in the book. He saw it as more of a civilizational and ideological divide.

Pakistan is meant to be a safe haven for the minorities of the sub continent, Muslims are the minority too in this region. A Pakistan like this will give everyone the space to breathe because right now we are in a chokehold of the religious right. The burning of a man in daylight in Sialkot should be the watershed moment. Time to change.

 

[epebble]

I want a well developed, clean and secular Pakistan with no strange looking people on the streets, no one starting people out, no loitering. No blasphemy laws and no judgement.

I want developed city centres that look aesthetic and has more to offer than just food. I want the environment safe enough for kids to be able to get the bus and go to an arcade or eat some food without their parents worrying.

A based but secular Pakistan. Like Turkey. I am not talking crude vulgar India so get that image out of your head. I think Pakistanis think this is what the other side looks like because your point of reference is India over there.

Pakistan will be its best version if its secular because the religious folk are very aggressive by nature and allowing them state level influence is just self sabotage. They are like the class bully. Its like they never grew up, obsessive and immature. They are one track minded and are not adaptable and flexible to change and the country always needs to be agile. These are not good qualities to have at a government level. Change is part of life, you must embrace it or get left behind. They can still do their thing but in their own homes. It will be for the best.

And the fear mongerers who think Pakistan won't survive this shift, total BS. Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be like the UK but he didn't want to alienate the mob and the illiterate underclasses so used religion as a motivator. A form of casus belli so to speak. Oldest trick in the book. He saw it as more of a civilizational and ideological divide.

Pakistan is meant to be a safe haven for the minorities of the sub continent, Muslims are the minority too in this region. A Pakistan like this will give everyone the space to breathe because right now we are in a chokehold of the religious right. The burning of a man in daylight in Sialkot should be the watershed moment. Time to change.

I don't think many people in Pakistan want it to be secular. You have been in the West and think it is like U.K. changing Prime Ministers. Turkey went through secularization mainly because it is culturally European. Besides European nations, there is no Muslim majority secular state. That is not an accident.

 

[Sayfullah]

Pakistan’s identity and existence is based on Islamic unity between the nations building it up and the hope of it being an Islamic country or at least trying.
The day Pakistan turns away from Islam, the nations building up Pakistan will turn away from Pakistan.

 

[TheSolution]

I want a well developed, clean and secular Pakistan with no strange looking people on the streets, no one starting people out, no loitering. No blasphemy laws and no judgement.

I want developed city centres that look aesthetic and has more to offer than just food. I want the environment safe enough for kids to be able to get the bus and go to an arcade or eat some food without their parents worrying.

A based but secular Pakistan. Like Turkey. I am not talking crude vulgar India so get that image out of your head. I think Pakistanis think this is what the other side looks like because your point of reference is India over there.

Pakistan will be its best version if its secular because the religious folk are very aggressive by nature and allowing them state level influence is just self sabotage. They are like the class bully. Its like they never grew up, obsessive and immature. They are one track minded and are not adaptable and flexible to change and the country always needs to be agile. These are not good qualities to have at a government level. Change is part of life, you must embrace it or get left behind. They can still do their thing but in their own homes. It will be for the best.

And the fear mongerers who think Pakistan won't survive this shift, total BS. Jinnah wanted Pakistan to be like the UK but he didn't want to alienate the mob and the illiterate underclasses so used religion as a motivator. A form of casus belli so to speak. Oldest trick in the book. He saw it as more of a civilizational and ideological divide.

Pakistan is meant to be a safe haven for the minorities of the sub continent, Muslims are the minority too in this region. A Pakistan like this will give everyone the space to breathe because right now we are in a chokehold of the religious right. The burning of a man in daylight in Sialkot should be the watershed moment. Time to change.

Jinnah's version of Pakistan was a less-extremist version what it is today. (Obviously not the corruption or failing economy, but from a societal aspect)

Essentially a semi-secular Muslim state - where you can tell you are clearly in an Islamic country with Muslims but there are no extremists forcing you to do certain things, lynching others, or hindering aspects of development.

Pakistan right now is a semi-secular Muslim state, it doesn't have Sharia law or an extremist rule like next door, all it needs to do is regulate the religious madrassas with higher quality educated tutors who don't preach the extremism, intolerance and barbarism you see today. A moderate Islamic society.

The fringe extreme elements need to be tamed which today they are not, they run rampantly wild and breed their ideology without any opposition from the state at the grass roots. You can't expect any change if there are hundreds/thousands of madrassas filled with young kids being brainwashed by extremists, replace those extremist with educated folk. Or centralise the teaching of Islam in your own manner at schools, so others can't weaponise it.

Ideally it would be best not to have to do this - but since Islam is weaponised it's better the state has the monopoly on the interpretation of what is being preached than individuals that could be extremists.