pakistan's and their reluctance to evolve with western culture.

[Musafir117]

I AM SHIVERING AT YOUR THREAT.
PAKISTAN HAS NO CULTURE WHICH IS GOOD IT IS A MIX OF ISLAM WITH SECULARISM WHICH WHY IT WAS A LEADING NATION N 1960'S NOW IT IS CONFUSED WHAT IT REAL IDENTITY IS. JINNAH IS LONG FORGOTTEN EXCEPT FOR CEREMONIAL REASONS. A COUNTRY WITH SAUDI AND US GUIDED POLICY MAKERS IS BOUND
TO BE CONFUSED.

Try to be mature as you already failed to be neutral

 

[Zarvan]

this thread is made for continuation of discussion from Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad?
my last post in that thread was
believe me i would be more then happy to see my people to become more like them in every field and behavior.but let me remind you those thing which were taboos few years ago are norms of today like voting rights of women racial discrimination and slavery. islam allow you to own slave but then why every Islamic country has abolished it.we were allowed to own slave with few condition met then why we abandon that practice let me tell you why because it was out dated practice with no place in today's society.same things happen with racial laws and women rights.world is changing and we need to change with it.i am not saying that we should blindly follow western or any other culture.but we should give them a chance to merge with ours to make a more tolerating and flexible Pakistan because if we don't world will move forward an we will be left behind and alone.look at turkey uae Malaysia they didn't lost their culture but simply merged it with international one and they are far more accepted then we are.

Source: Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad? | Page 6
@Ammara Chaudhry

Which fool tells you that Islam allows to own slave ? Mr slavery was prevelant at that time and people didn't considered slave equals so what Islam first did was tell people to treat slaves on equal bases by giving them food which they eat themselves by giving slaves clothes which they themselves wear. So people started considering slaves as equal persons. As for next step ALLAH ordered Muslims to get their sins removed and forgiven ALLAH encouraged Muslims to free slaves and every Muslim than started buying slaves and used to set them free and after some time ALLAH prohibited to take prisoners in war which ended process of making new slaves and when 2nd Caliph of Islam came into power he banned slavery completely and set free all remaining slaves. As for western culture those things not going against Quran and Sunnah will be accepted and others will be rejected

 

[Paksanity]

Mexico is next door and Afghans suffer the burden of your good and bad Taliban but why are u so keen to come to Europe? Ever seen the line of people in front of the UK and US Embassy in Pakistan?

Been there. Never seen long lines. Been to West. Never felt the urge to leave my country.

What does "Mexico is next door" even suppose to mean? Afghans are illegal migrants decades before Taliban. Indians however gladly surrender their nationality to US. I don't know which world you live in?

 

[Always Neutral]

The real world and Pakistanis love Europe and the US and they will come legally and illegally. You can be an ostrich and bury your head in the sand.

 

[Musafir117]

HAPPY FOR THE 1960'S. Pakistan produced world class doctors, educationist and were a tolerant lot and rarely did you hear them debate if Ahemediyas were Muslims are not. They just seemed to want to excel in what they did. Now u read about how the Arabs can land and hunt in Pakistan yet treat Pakistanis as second class citizens in the Gulf. says it all. How every time there is a political crisis the Saudi King summons your ruling class and mediates.


When I talk with a kid like u how can I be mature. Time to go home and ask your mummy for a milk bottle.

Oh you fixed your CAPS problem but get other problem " Personal Attacks " showing who is on childish behavior

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Good practices from every culture should be appreciated and adopted but we should not blindly follow everything western does at the cost of our own social religious values..what is so special about valentine? Try to adopt good thing in western society i.e their honesty, dedication with work, emphasis on education/learning, tolerance of different views etc rather than valentine day,halloween and all others such non sense

 

[untitled]

western civilization and liberal idea has their roots in late renaissance era when they start rejecting popes they separated the religion from their politics this was first step.

Separation of Church/Mosque and state was the very idea MA Jinnah had for Pakistan despite what many people say. Despite the rebellion against the Catholic church many in Europe did pride themselves as believing Christians.

then came the era of king and tyrants with expansionist which remains until 1945 in this era they were cruel and racist so at the end of this era it gave birth to human rights.

What triggered the European expansionism? The two threats the Europeans faced were of Ottoman Turkey and Muslim Iberia. With the weakening of the Ottomans and expelling of Moors of the Europeans got the breathing space they needed to colonise the world.

they come to know the value of peace after 1945 and united to further develop human rights and work as one unit for betterment of their society and now look at them.

What peace? If you mean amongst the Europeans /Westerners then yes. Have you lost count of the wars that have taken place since 1945 till present day?

 

[Always Neutral]

Good practices from every culture should be appreciated and adopted but we should not blindly follow everything western does at the cost of our own social religious values..what is so special about valentine? Try to adopt good thing in western society i.e their honesty, dedication with work, emphasis on education/learning, tolerance of different views etc rather than valentine day,halloween and all others such non sense

I agree as an atheist I cannot believe in Santa Claus but I would hate it to be banned by the state as it makes people happy. So should be valentine's day. Hey you don't like western rules? Your Navy Act is verbatim till date of the Royal Navy Act of 1942. Just the cover is different.

 

[Hell hound]

there is no need to celebrate it but then again there is no need to ban it.let the people do what ever they want to do let them decide what they want after it is free country we live who give the right of moral policing to these mullahs.the sexual frustration that you talk about mate it is there whole year and people vent it on daily base the problem mullah hazrat has with this day is that it shows them the true face of Pakistani youth to them for only one day.so they feel like they are losing control on public and try to ban it. it gives them sense of satisfaction and control over Pakistani people and our government let them keep that control.my friend it is because of these mullahs Pakistan is facing downfall not because of western culture.these are the guys who control our mosques and in their friday khutba they declare shia as kafirs dubandi this and wahabi that.these are the guys who put bounties on the head of people like salman taseer and then defend their culprits not us. what pains me is why these jahil mullahs has so much power in our society and culture. these are guys who are blocking the change process and i want to change it. thats what i am trying to do.
mate i will love to say may Pakistani fellows with western attributes like honesty, hard work and professionalism
@airmarshal

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I agree as an atheist I cannot believe in Santa Claus but I would hate it to be banned by the state as it makes people happy. So should be valentine's day. Hey you don't like western rules? Your Navy Act is verbatim till date of the Royal Navy Act of 1942. Just the cover is different.

I was in Pakistan last feb and did not witnessed any ban on valentine day but certain acts people do in the name of valentine celebration i.e teasing of girls in park or on roads , loud music and others such silly thing should be banned. Everyone should celebrate it without disturbing the lives of others..

 

[Zarvan]

this thread is made for continuation of discussion from Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad?
my last post in that thread was
believe me i would be more then happy to see my people to become more like them in every field and behavior.but let me remind you those thing which were taboos few years ago are norms of today like voting rights of women racial discrimination and slavery. islam allow you to own slave but then why every Islamic country has abolished it.we were allowed to own slave with few condition met then why we abandon that practice let me tell you why because it was out dated practice with no place in today's society.same things happen with racial laws and women rights.world is changing and we need to change with it.i am not saying that we should blindly follow western or any other culture.but we should give them a chance to merge with ours to make a more tolerating and flexible Pakistan because if we don't world will move forward an we will be left behind and alone.look at turkey uae Malaysia they didn't lost their culture but simply merged it with international one and they are far more accepted then we are.

Source: Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad? | Page 6
@Ammara Chaudhry

Turkey has one of highest rate of honor killing and Malaysia does full crackdown on Muslim couples celebrating Valentine. UAE has also some laws

there is no need to celebrate it but then again there is no need to ban it.let the people do what ever they want to do let them decide what they want after it is free country we live who give the right of moral policing to these mullahs.the sexual frustration that you talk about mate it is there whole year and people vent it on daily base the problem mullah hazrat has with this day is that it shows them the true face of Pakistani youth to them for only one day.so they feel like they are losing control on public and try to ban it. it gives them sense of satisfaction and control over Pakistani people and our government let them keep that control.my friend it is because of these mullahs Pakistan is facing downfall not because of western culture.these are the guys who control our mosques and in their friday khutba they declare shia as kafirs dubandi this and wahabi that.these are the guys who put bounties on the head of people like salman taseer and then defend their culprits not us. what pains me is why these jahil mullahs has so much power in our society and culture. these are guys who are blocking the change process and i want to change it. thats what i am trying to do.
mate i will love to say may Pakistani fellows with western attributes like honesty, hard work and professionalism
@airmarshal

Sorry we are Muslims and things not allowed in Islam would be banned and people will be stopped from doing Haram stuff. Attributed you mentioned are hardcore Islamic attributes stop following west blindly

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

“I’m surprised why electronic media are airing such baseless news,” Islamabad Deputy Commissioner Captain (retd) Muhstaq Ahmed said.

Regarding reports that Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar was chairing a meeting to consider banning Valentine’s Day celebrations, the official said, “The minister called a meeting to review the law and order situation of the capital, and it was attended by officials of the administration and police.”

“The minister did not pass any directions particularly to ban the Valentine’s Day celebrations,” he added.

Further an interior ministry spokesperson, Muhammad Sarfraz, confirmed that they did not pass any direction in this regard. “The meeting was supposed to review the performance of police and Federal Investigation Agency,” he said.

Valentine's Day celebrations banned in Islamabad? - The Express Tribune

 

[Moonlight]

this thread is made for continuation of discussion from Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad?
my last post in that thread was
believe me i would be more then happy to see my people to become more like them in every field and behavior.but let me remind you those thing which were taboos few years ago are norms of today like voting rights of women racial discrimination and slavery. islam allow you to own slave but then why every Islamic country has abolished it.we were allowed to own slave with few condition met then why we abandon that practice let me tell you why because it was out dated practice with no place in today's society.same things happen with racial laws and women rights.world is changing and we need to change with it.i am not saying that we should blindly follow western or any other culture.but we should give them a chance to merge with ours to make a more tolerating and flexible Pakistan because if we don't world will move forward an we will be left behind and alone.look at turkey uae Malaysia they didn't lost their culture but simply merged it with international one and they are far more accepted then we are.

Source: Pakistan bans Valentine's Day celebrations in Islamabad? | Page 6
@Ammara Chaudhry

I am sorry for the late reply.
Ok so firstly I would like to clear one thing. I am not giving any fatwa wether it is haram or not. Not my department.

No No No totally not a great idea to behave like westerns in every field. We can't afford it, sir. Two entirely different cultures, mindsets, faiths, and everything else is different altogether. It's like making the earth meets the sky. Is it possible? Hell no. If you want to give an easy death to a society, it doesn't require much effort, just take away their cultural and moral values. Further, why did then millions of our Muslim brothers, sisters, mothers, and kids sacrificed to get a new nation with its own values. akistan: Our sisters and mothers even sacrificed their dignities. If it was totally fine to live under British rule and/or under Indian government. Then what was the point to get ourselves freed? Alma Iqbal and Qaid e Azam did not dream of this Pakistan, sir. They dreamt of Pakistan with its own ID. So they can carry their religious and culture values with them, regardless the time period they're living in. Next, racial segregation, women rights to vote, and slavery, Islam is the first official religion to grants women with rights. (Within a day I will post an article on status of women in Islam, do check it). As per slavery you have to understand it deeply. There are many WH questions to this. This will turn into a slavery essay so let me briefly tell you with one verse from Quran that Islam even grants slaves with rights and treat them with kindness. “And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allaah which He has bestowed upon you” [al-Noor 24:33]. Now about racial discrimination, Islam even openly talks about this. Remember the last sermon of Rasool Allah (saw) and thar very famous Hadith, "O people! Your God is one and your forefather (Adam) is one. An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red (i.e. white tinged with red) person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person, except in piety."
Today we love giving credits to democracy for this all. Interestingly, democracy adopted all the ideas from Islam.
Sir, there is nothing wrong to adopt new ideas. Even after the death of Rasool Allah (saw) few laws were slightly changed, but it did not lose the whole purpose of it and the values of Islam were still there. Sir, let's walk with west in medical fields, compete them in field of arts, contribute into science.
Celebrating Valentine's Day, Halloween Day, Black Friday, etc. does not help west and nor it helps us. Actually, this is hurting us on very high level. We are losing this Umah, we are losing people of thinking, we are nowhere and hanging between west and east. West don't accept us and we are also losing east from our hands. So why not proudly own our values and have no complexes. If it is totally fine to out-and-out intermingling with another culture, why don't west merge with east and adopt its values? Well they find it insulting to leave their values (honestly not even rich in culture and values). And here we are copying them in everything and no matter if it even suits or not. Becoming alien!
Additionally, we have no respect to understand it, but follows it fully. Yes in west Valentine's day is not just limited to unofficial couples and in other words to very stupid culture of Gf or Bf. But Pakistanis have limited it to just this relationship and admit it or not, it is a reason of fitna in society. This plays a major part in our youth to stop thinking about the big picture, about the future, and about the betterment of the Umah and the country. We have no goals in lives for the most part. Muslims was the guy coming up with algebra. Because he did not pay attention to western culture or anything and was a person of thinking. Now we are just people of copying, but not thinking. We have limited our thoughts just to look cool with doing what west is doing. Pity!
No sir when we will give this world something even with sticking to our values, trust me, we will NOT be left behind. This is very limited mindset that we can only compete with following west.

@Zarvan @Jungibaaz @DesertFox97 @Khafee @Shamain @Neutron @The Eagle

 

[The Sandman]

I am sorry for the late reply.
Ok so firstly I would like to clear one thing. I am not giving any fatwa wether it is haram or not. Not my department.

No No No totally not a great idea to behave like westerns in every field. We can't afford it, sir. Two entirely different cultures, mindsets, faiths, and everything else is different altogether. It's like making the earth meets the sky. Is it possible? Hell no. If you want to give an easy death to a society, it doesn't require much effort, just take away their cultural and moral values. Further, why did then millions of our Muslim brothers, sisters, mothers, and kids sacrificed to get a new nation with its own values. akistan: Our sisters and mothers even sacrificed their dignities. If it was totally fine to live under British rule and/or under Indian government. Then what was the point to get ourselves freed? Alma Iqbal and Qaid e Azam did not dream of this Pakistan, sir. They dreamt of Pakistan with its own ID. So they can carry their religious and culture values with them, regardless the time period they're living in. Next, racial segregation, women rights to vote, and slavery, Islam is the first official religion to grants women with rights. (Within a day I will post an article on status of women in Islam, do check it). As per slavery you have to understand it deeply. There are many WH questions to this. This will turn into a slavery essay so let me briefly tell you with one verse from Quran that Islam even grants slaves with rights and treat them with kindness. “And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allaah which He has bestowed upon you” [al-Noor 24:33]. Now about racial discrimination, Islam even openly talks about this. Remember the last sermon of Rasool Allah (saw) and thar very famous Hadith, "O people! Your God is one and your forefather (Adam) is one. An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red (i.e. white tinged with red) person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person, except in piety."
Today we love giving credits to democracy for this all. Interestingly, democracy adopted all the ideas from Islam.
Sir, there is nothing wrong to adopt new ideas. Even after the death of Rasool Allah (saw) few laws were slightly changed, but it did not lose the whole purpose of it and the values of Islam were still there. Sir, let's walk with west in medical fields, compete them in field of arts, contribute into science.
Celebrating Valentine's Day, Halloween Day, Black Friday, etc. does not help west and nor it helps us. Actually, this is hurting us on very high level. We are losing this Umah, we are losing people of thinking, we are nowhere and hanging between west and east. West don't accept us and we are also losing east from our hands. So why not proudly own our values and have no complexes. If it is totally fine to out-and-out intermingling with another culture, why don't west merge with east and adopt its values? Well they find it insulting to leave their values (honestly not even rich in culture and values). And here we are copying them in everything and no matter if it even suits or not. Becoming alien!
Additionally, we have no respect to understand it, but follows it fully. Yes in west Valentine's day is not just limited to unofficial couples and in other words to very stupid culture of Gf or Bf. But Pakistanis have limited it to just this relationship and admit it or not, it is a reason of fitna in society. This plays a major part in our youth to stop thinking about the big picture, about the future, and about the betterment of the Umah and the country. We have no goals in lives for the most part. Muslims was the guy coming up with algebra. Because he did not pay attention to western culture or anything and was a person of thinking. Now we are just people of copying, but not thinking. We have limited our thoughts just to look cool with doing what west is doing. Pity!
No sir when we will give this world something even with sticking to our values, trust me, we will NOT be left behind. This is very limited mindset that we can only compete with following west.

@Zarvan @Jungibaaz @DesertFox97 @Khafee @Shamain.

Damn are you trying to become a TTA?

 

[Moonlight]

What's the big deal .. Seriously.. ? Is celebrating anything just for fun or sake of it a sin? Is it sin or again Islam or our culture to celebrate with ones spouse aswell?

You live in USA and "survived".. you are still a teenager I believe... But let's suppose if you were married or engaged .. Would it be "HARAAAAAAAM" if you exchanged gifts with your partner? would that be against your "culture"?

I don't understand the pointless arguement here. -Desert Fighter

And you sir @DESERT FIGHTER.

I am not saying wether it's a sin or not. Oh so you need one particular day to express your love to your spouse? Duh'.
Sir no one is talking about its being haram or halal. That is not my department. Exchanging gifts is Sunnah, but. not with your gf/bf. Gf/Bf is not part of our culture and its becoming the reason of fitna in our society Which doesn't even exist in both our cultural and religious values.
We are dealing with enough of fitna already. Why don't you guys understand it's our collectively responsibility to protect this generation in order to protect next generation of Umah and next generation of Pakistan. What will we leave behind for them? Ha' western holidays? Seriously?
Seemingly you guys are making it haram to exchange gifts with your spouse in rest of the 364 days and go nuts on Valentine's Day.