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Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

Can any one reply this question:
As we know that JF-17 has a KLJ7 or 10 RADAR with a range of +105Km, is it possible that a SAAB Erieye 2000 with 350Km range RADAR, tracks a SU-30MKI and pass the data, e.g. direction, distance etc. to JF-17 to engage it?
Is it possible?

Yes, including the stains on the MKI pilots tidy whities :lol:
Just kidding, about the tidy whities part the rest is true and is what the Erieye was designed to do.

One caveat, the Erieye will fail to detect the MKI if the MKI is radio silent (not transmitting) and flying in front or behind the Erieye.
 
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Looks like I was right after all 360 deg coverage is a concern for PAF :azn:, according to the Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman PAF will get 4 KJ-2000 (IL-76) from China :china: in 2011. :D

Early warning aircraft inducted into PAF By Iftikhar A. Khan & Yaqoob Malik
Friday, 01 Jan, 2010

DBC,

How did you deduce that because PAF is acquiring the Chinese platforms, it is because of the 360 degree issue?

There are very many other reasons for Pakistan to go for these systems. Some strategic from a defence production standpoint and some geo-political.
 
Yes, including the stains on the MKI pilots tidy whities :lol:
Just kidding, about the tidy whities part the rest is true and is what the Erieye was designed to do.

One caveat, the Erieye will fail to detect the MKI if the MKI is radio silent (not transmitting) and flying in front or behind the Erieye.
Well...If the MKI is in front of the Erieye, then he can transmit all he want since his radar is directional -- front only. But if the MKI is behind the AWACS and he is not transmitting, then he is blind and must rely on less capable sensor, if any is available. People are making way too much noise over this front-rear coverage gap.
 
According to DBC Assumptions the Escorts will be sleeping and the ground radar wont work.
 
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Can any one reply this question:
As we know that JF-17 has a KLJ7 or 10 RADAR with a range of +105Km, is it possible that a SAAB Erieye 2000 with 350Km range RADAR, tracks a SU-30MKI and pass the data, e.g. direction, distance etc. to JF-17 to engage it?
Is it possible?
SAAB-2000 erieye has about 400-450km instrumental range with capability to detect and tract 4.5 generation semi stealth aircraft at 380km range.
One caveat, the Erieye will fail to detect the MKI if the MKI is radio silent (not transmitting) and flying in front or behind the Erieye.
ammmm.. right lady.. a question..
1. how will mki get behind or front of erieye when it will be flying longitudinally?
and you do know that that Erieye has some ability to detect aircraft in the 30° sectors fore and aft??
 
Sapper, your preeminent english language newspaper claims the Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman made the above statement during a press conference, I don't see how you can call that speculation?

Dear, don't trust anything reported in our newspapers, half of the time they don't even know themselves what they are talking about, especially when it comes to defense news.

I have watched the all the interviews of my ACM very carefully, and no information about any of that was revealed, also no other newspaper reported it as well. What was said by ACM was that we are working on 4 Chinese AEW&C as well, and thanks to our journalistic ethics, the news was extrapolated to say that we are getting 4 KLJ2000 with IL76 airframe.

Once again, No confirmed reports on anything except ZDK-03.

Regards,
Sapper
 
ammmm.. right lady.. a question..
1. how will mki get behind or front of erieye when it will be flying longitudinally?
and you do know that that Erieye has some ability to detect aircraft in the 30° sectors fore and aft??


According to DBC Assumptions the Escorts will be sleeping and the ground radar wont work.

Well...If the MKI is in front of the Erieye, then he can transmit all he want since his radar is directional -- front only. But if the MKI is behind the AWACS and he is not transmitting, then he is blind and must rely on less capable sensor, if any is available. People are making way too much noise over this front-rear coverage gap.

Everyone wants a piece of chocolate, I get that a lot :lol:

“People are making way too much noise over this front-rear coverage gap” - I bet you don’t apply the same logic to insurance, medical or otherwise – most prefer full. How about 3G coverage? Or, any sort of coverage for that matter more is better - why should surveillance be any different?

Here is where I want an honest answer from you, imagine you are a fleet commander and presented with a choice between an E-2D and Erieye which one would you pick to watch over your naval assets? The E-2D of course, a no brainer really since the fleet is at sea and threats can approach from multiple axes concurrently, full 360 degree coverage is essential.

I suppose we can both agree that 360° coverage is essential for concurrent threats from multiple axes and begin to address the real question at hand: the Erieye’s lack of 360° coverage and how it impacts Pakistan’s defense. I will admit that it is not a big deal provided status quo prevails, Pakistan's territorial integrity is preserved, bases, assets and every conceivable protection is fully functional and ready for action. Now here’s the kicker, against a large and increasingly sophisticated adversary all bets are off.

Bases may have been captured assets destroyed and before you know it you are faced with concurrent threats from multiple axes. If news of KJ-2000 acquisition is true then I’m glad, for it will serve Pakistan a little bit better than the Erieye and at times of war a little can go a long way.
 
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Sapper, your preeminent english language newspaper claims the Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman made the above statement during a press conference, I don't see how you can call that speculation?
I think these are refuelers rather than AWACS

Pakistan to induct 4 Chinese Airborne Refullers - PAF Chief
August 10, 2009 | H S Rao

LONDON: Pakistan Air Force plans to induct four Chinese airborne refullers next year, in a move to counter the Indian Air Forces' enhanced capabilities after New Delhi acquired six similar aircraft, the PAF chief has said.

Air Chief Marshal Qamar Suleman underlined that the airborne refullers were necessary to match the IAF, six years after India acquired six similar aircraft.

"This is an absolutely new capability we are getting, which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the Pakistan Air force," Suleman told the Jane's Defence Weekly.

He said to match the Indian Air Force's acquisition of the first of three Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), his force would receive four Chinese systems between 2011 and 2012.

He also termed as "alarming" the IAF's intention of purchasing 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft, saying Pakistan needed "to have something matching.

further news
PAF to complete induction of four Ilyushin Il-78 aircraft by 2010
August 10, 2009 | Daily Pk

ISLAMABAD: Chief of the Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman has said that the Pakistan Air Force plans to complete the induction of up to four Ilyushin Il-78 aircraft fitted with a mid-air refueling capability, extending the capacity of its fighter aircraft to patrol areas over the border region by 2010.

In an exclusive interview with Jane’s Defense Weekly, Rao Qamar said, the refueling capability is an "extremely significant" development. "This is an absolutely new capability we are getting, which we are inducting. We never had this capability in the Pakistan Air Force," he said.

Answering to a question, he said, US-supplied F-16 multirole fighter aircraft can stay for up to four, five, six hours in Pakistan’s northern areas, ranging from the northern Swat valley and its surrounding region.

"During this time, if there is any militant attack anywhere in the FATA [Federally Administered Tribal Areas], these aircraft can go there immediately, within minutes, and they can bomb the militants. It will create the right kind of deterrence against the militants", he said.

He said the PAF’s operations in the north have brought significant pressure to bear on Taliban militants, who were on the advance until the recent military campaign in Swat began reversing the tide.

"They [Taliban militants] never see us on the ground. The only time they find out that an aircraft has struck is when the bomb explodes on them. It creates a great psychological impact", he said.

Replying to a question, Rao Qamar went on to say, the PAF was focused on enemy air forces. We remained focused on enemy land forces and enemy air forces and, therefore, we were preparing ourselves to fight against organized modern air forces and against modern armies.

"We never thought we would be required to fight against militants or be involved in counter-insurgency operations. When we started this [counter-insurgency], we had to learn while on the job. We had to re-orient our thinking, we had to refine our ... existing SOPs [standard operating procedures] and we had to develop new SOPs for this kind of warfare. However, we did that very quickly", he said.

The recent operation has led the PAF to identify new areas for development, such as acquiring more precision-guided bombs, enhanced night precision attack capabilities and the capability to monitor communications and track the movement of militants, he said.

The PAF’s other, already established, requirements include the development of the JF-17 Thunder fighter aircraft, co-produced with China, he said.

The PAF plans to eventually induct up to 250 JF-17 fighters, making the aircraft the backbone of its inventory, he said, adding that, the first ’fully made in Pakistan’ JF-17 is expected to be produced by the end of this year at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra, north of Islamabad. However, there is still a requirement for a more advanced fighter aircraft, as the PAF prepares to counter the future edge that may be acquired by the IAF once it completes the planned purchase of 126 multirole combat aircraft (MRCAs), he said.

"We knew about this requirement of the Indian Air Force for 126 latest-generation fighter aircraft. Yes, it is an alarming development because when they get 126 such capable aircraft, then we also need to have something matching to counter that threat," ACM Qamar said.

Replying to a question, he said, the PAF has finalized the technical proposal for the FC-20 and informed the Chinese of its requirements.

"[The technical proposal] is more or less finalized now. There are some changes that are required, which [the Chinese] are making," he said.

The next stage of the contract will involve financial negotiations between China and Pakistan, he said. Air Chief Marshall Qamar believes that, following the signing of a contract, it will take two to two-and-a-half years before the first FC-20 aircraft is received.

Rao Qamar Suleman answering to a question said the PAF has also signed a contract for the purchase of four Chinese airborne early warning and control aircraft. The first of these is due to arrive in 2011 and the remaining three will be delivered in 2012.
 
IL 78 is a tanker version of IL76 and PAF may be planning to induct more tankers but not KJ2000 because the number of KJ2000 the chinese are having is four
 
IL 78 is a tanker version of IL76 and PAF may be planning to induct more tankers but not KJ2000 because the number of KJ2000 the chinese are having is four

PAF is having the multi role platform, tanker/transporter version.

And if we are gonna get KJ-2000, that would not be from the Chinese fleet, rather we will order a brand new one for ourselves.

And the reason China has 4 and we can't get KJ-2000 is neither the Chinese have more platforms to make KJ-2000s as their last deal for IL-76s/78s fell apart, nor we can as we don't have sources to buy the IL-76/78 platforms.
 
PAF is having the multi role platform, tanker/transporter version.

And if we are gonna get KJ-2000, that would not be from the Chinese fleet, rather we will order a brand new one for ourselves.

And the reason China has 4 and we can't get KJ-2000 is neither the Chinese have more platforms to make KJ-2000s as their last deal for IL-76s/78s fell apart, nor we can as we don't have sources to buy the IL-76/78 platforms.

i too said the same because some were saying that IL78 of PAf can be converted KJ2000
Pakistan cant buy a new one's because if they can they would have bought by now and Russia may not be willing to sell to you
 
i too said the same because some were saying that IL78 of PAf can be converted KJ2000
Pakistan cant buy a new one's because if they can they would have bought by now and Russia may not be willing to sell to you

Well, don't mind but you did not said so, you said something else.

And problem is not about buying, issue is that does PAF needs a KJ-2000 type platform or not, based on the threat perception it has identified. If they had wanted it badly, they would have converted 2-4 platform out of the IL-78s we got.

PAF has not much of a large airspace to defend looking at its width.

What if PAF thinks Erieye and the Chinese ZDK-03 would be enough for our requirements and can fulfill the role identified and assigned, so if that is the case, why would be a heavier, much more expensive, operationally expensive platform be inducted, when lesser expensive platforms can do the job.
 
the airspace may not be long but KJ2000 has a greater range and capabilities i.e you can detect a plane more early when compared to Erieye and the Chinese ZDK-03
converting 2-4 platform of IL-78s when needed will be difficult because it will take 2-3 years for completion and you may not reach on time
 
Everyone wants a piece of chocolate, I get that a lot :lol:
I dont like dark coffee chocolates.:sick:
“People are making way too much noise over this front-rear coverage gap” - I bet you don’t apply the same logic to insurance, medical or otherwise – most prefer full. How about 3G coverage? Or, any sort of coverage for that matter more is better - why should surveillance be any different?
please spend a little bit more time on google searching ERIEYE system capabilities.. :)
Here is where I want an honest answer from you, imagine you are a fleet commander and presented with a choice between an E-2D and Erieye which one would you pick to watch over your naval assets? The E-2D of course, a no brainer really since the fleet is at sea and threats can approach from multiple axes concurrently, full 360 degree coverage is essential.
PN has already chosen P-3AEW for naval purpose, E-2D is primarily a naval asset while Erieye is perfectly suited for PAF requirement. the only advantage E-2D has over land is the ability to rotate its dome with 2 side lobes to which ever direction it wants.
2 Erieyes operating 3-400 KM apart can provide more and better coverage then 1 phalcon at almost same price.
I suppose we can both agree that 360° coverage is essential for concurrent threats from multiple axes and begin to address the real question at hand: the Erieye’s lack of 360° coverage and how it impacts Pakistan’s defense.
I thought we already went through this. why are you going back and repeating the same rubbish? Erieye has 360degree coverage and the capability to detect anything on its fore and aft and simply position itself to bring that target within its side lobe for better handling. then again.... their is no chance of any IAF fighers sneaking aft or fore of ERIEYE due to PAK-indo latitude border. why cant you comprehend this fact?
Bases may have been captured assets destroyed and before you know it you are faced with concurrent threats from multiple axes. If news of KJ-2000 acquisition is true then I’m glad, for it will serve Pakistan a little bit better than the Erieye and at times of war a little can go a long way.
:sick:
 

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