Pakistanis are obsessed with Islam, Kashmir & Hindus -- Sheikh Mujib's speech

[lastofthepatriots]

I'd have to say the bengalis living in Karachi would disagree.

 

[padamchen]

I'd have to say the bengalis living in Karachi would disagree.

I think everyone seems to be living in Karachi.

The United States of Pakistan.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Bengal71]

You're just repeating the same points without actually proving them, in spite of the evidence I have given which contradicts them.



We have the largest population of Afghans in the entire world (the word Afghan has historically been an ethnonym for Pashtuns), we've got Hazaras who are Turco-Mongols and other people (e.g Mughals) who have Turco-Mongol ancestry, and we have Syeds, Qureshis, Ansaris, Awans, etc who all have Arab ancestry. In fact, you should check this out:

https://www.harappadna.org/2012/05/harappaworld-admixture/

This is the Harappa admixture sheet. You will find that Muslims from Pakistan and north-west India have higher amounts of SW Asian (i.e Arab) ancestry than their non-Muslim counterparts from the same ethnic group. The only exceptions are a few of the Sikh populations, which would be expected since many Muslims did convert to Sikhism (since Islam was already pretty firmly established in the Punjab at that time).

I'll give you some examples:

Kashmiri Paharis (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
Kashmiri Pandits (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture

Punjabi Arains (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
Punjabi Muslim Jatts: 2% SW Asian admixture
Punjabi Brahmins: 0% SW Asian admixture

Gujarati Muslims: 4% SW Asian admixture
Gujarati Patels (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture

Our country has been the target of many conquests and migrations, so all of this isn't surprising. What is surprising is how you feel confident enough to make such incorrect statements.



Perhaps, but I'm sceptical.

I am repeating the truth again and again. You have some of those population with Afghan and other backgrounds, but none of those empires and those Islamic heroes belonged to you.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

From my perspective: millions of Muslims fought and died for control of Delhi and North India over centuries, so why the hell would we tuck our tail and do the opposite.

We didn't tuck our tail, we've permanently carved out a massive chunk of land that could of been theirs post-British colonialism if it weren't for us. We went down with the last laugh.

(1.) There is no logical way that the entire population can leave their home and cross the border trekking such a long distance, especially when there exist plenty of people who were never targeted in ethnoreligious violence.

Muslims that far away should have fought for their independence if they couldn't make it. We can't carry everyone on our back.

The religious scholarly centers of Sunni Islam, i.e., Deoband and Bareili were located in North India, so that is like cutting the head from the body.

We still got some of the prominent clerics on board.

But not surprising when you realize that the Pak movement was heavily led by Shia and secularists so from their perspective this was never a concern.

Not true, they were less religious, but not secularists and AFAIK most of them were Sunni (Jinnah himself converted to Sunni Islam and had a Sunni funeral).

(3.) East Pak and West Pak are not even connected, and Muslims are effectively divided along three separate polities. United we are strong, divided we are weak and that's what happened. Muslims would have been a third of the population today in a united subcontinent, and that's all you need for 'critical mass'.

Not enough Muslims were devoted to being united. Too many of us were content with being the property of Indians, and others were too fixated on their ethnic identity.

 

[TMA]

I am repeating the truth again and again. You have some of those population with Afghan and other backgrounds, but none of those empires and those Islamic heroes belonged to you.

By what definition? Are you saying that only post 1947 can belong to Pakistan?
Oh by the way, two thirds of Afghans (Pukhtoons) are Pakistani. It is not some but the majority.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

You have some of those population with Afghan and other backgrounds, but none of those empires and those Islamic heroes belonged to you.

It's actually bewildering how you can say that without realising how stupid you sound.

 

[zain41]

It's actually bewildering how you can say that without realising how stupid you sound.

There is no point arguing with this tool..you’ll only kill your brain cells

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

I think everyone seems to be living in Karachi.

The United States of Pakistan.

Cheers, Doc

There are even Indians in Karachi, I kid you not. And I'm not talking about people from the partition.

 

[padamchen]

There are even Indians in Karachi, I kid you not. And I'm not talking about people from the partition.

Karachi surely seems to have a flavour and character all its own.

Probably only two Pakistani cities qualify as world cities.

Karachi and Peshawar.

Cheers, Doc

 

[lastofthepatriots]

I think everyone seems to be living in Karachi.

The United States of Pakistan.

Cheers, Doc

I find your theories on race interesting. Imagine thinking Iran, Pakistan, or India are homogeneous states. Laughable I know. Bangladesh is surprisingly homogeneous racially.

I challenge you to take a DNA/ancestry test and show the results here.

If you think Pakistanis are hybrids, then you are in for a rude awakening for your parsis and bhartis.

 

[PakSarzameen5823]

Karachi surely seems to have a flavour and character all its own.

Probably only two Pakistani cities qualify as world cities.

Karachi and Peshawar.

Cheers, Doc

Why Peshawar lol?

I find your theories on race interesting. Imagine thinking Iran, Pakistan, or India are homogeneous states. Laughable I know. Bangladesh is surprisingly homogeneous racially.

I challenge you to take a DNA/ancestry test and show the results here.

If you think Pakistanis are hybrids, then you are in for a rude awakening for your parsis and bhartis.

You can check the Harappa sheet I posted earlier and find the Parsis in it.

 

[Fortress]

The days of Muslim rule were smashed by the British. Quaid e Azaam was initially for unity but he spent time in Congress and realised that Muslims will be marginalised and also he was heavily influenced by Allama Iqbal.
Also Bangladesh was never meant to be part of Pakistan. Quaid E Azaam reluctantly agreed due to the heavy involvement of Bengali Muslims despite knowing the vast differences. Allama Iqbal never mentioned Bengal in his talks about a separate Muslim homeland.
Chandry Rehmat Ali also had Pakistan as West Pakistan only. The name P A K (I) S TAN. There is no Bangla in it.

I disagree 33 % would not be enough for critical mass.
Plus the Subcontinent of India has been separate states for most of History. Unity is actual the exception to the rule...even if Islam had not come, the Indus region is different to the Gangetic region. It is unfortunate that Pakistan could not get the whole of what the Pakistan movement wanted....

By critical mass I mean that once you have a third of the population, no one can oppress you and you have political leverage. Muslims aren't the type that they can just be pushed around when they have numbers. Also since it's a federal system, Muslims could have made their own rules and norms in their own states (i.e., in Bengal and West Pakistan). Not to mention the internal migration would have increased Muslim populations in central India as well and Islam itself would have spread faster in central India than it is doing now. Because right now Islam is considered a negative, whereas then it would have been encouraged by a third of the population who are Muslims. Punjab and Bengal would have been under Muslim rule as a whole because of sheer demographics.

We didn't tuck our tail, we've permanently carved out a massive chunk of land that could of been theirs post-British colonialism if it weren't for us. We went down with the last laugh.


Muslims that far away should have fought for their independence if they couldn't make it. We can't carry everyone on our back.

We still got some of the prominent clerics on board.


Not true, they were less religious, but not secularists and AFAIK most of them were Sunni (Jinnah himself converted to Sunni Islam and had a Sunni funeral).


Not enough Muslims were devoted to being united. Too many of us were content with being the property of Indians, and others were too fixated on their ethnic identity.

Jinnah's religion during his death is under dispute. Some who knew him say he converted to Sunni and pushed to have his funeral that way, whereas his own family said he was Twelver Shia and tried to do it their own way. Nonetheless, what was his religion during the partition?

Some scholars did indeed support it, which is why it happened. But fact is the centers remained in North India, and till this day Deobandis and Barelwis continue to be the dominant schools of the subcontinent. So there is a literal disconnect of the head from the body.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

Why Peshawar lol?



You can check the Harappa sheet I posted earlier and find the Parsis in it.

I'm not going to check because I have better things to waste my time on, but I bet there are elements of Dravidian/Elamites in them as well.

The only pure country in this world is Pakistan.

 

[padamchen]

Why Peshawar lol?

It's an ancient confluence city of two civilizations.

And a mega city. Hugely in the news (oftentimes for the wrong reasons).

Antique. Historical. Exotic. Violent. In the eye of global politics.

Lahore if you want to push it. Though for me Lahore is just a bigger Pakistani Muslim Amritsar.

Cheers, Doc

 

[zain41]

I'm not going to check because I have better things to waste my time on, but I bet there are elements of Dravidian/Elamites in them as well.

The only pure country in the his world is Pakistan.

What about the conspiracy theory Pakhtuns are descendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel hmm