Pakistan-Turkey 4 Milgem Ada Class Corvettes Contract - Construction started

[Tank131]

Pakistan always use mix of eastern and western systems, so its possible if Turkish boats have western radar then western weapons are deployed with them too.



Nope, Pakistan have combo of west+east systems on many platforms already.

That is not entirely accurate/true. You may be referring to F-7s which operate sidewinders. While the platform is indeed Chinese/Russian in origin, the fire control radar is Italian and as such integration of sidewinders is a given. The reverse is true for the Amazons which operates the LY-60 SAM. They are British in origin and while the LY-60 is actually an Aspide (Italian) which itself is based on Aim-7 Sparrow. Beyond that, these all were already obsolete at the time of induction. Think about the fact that F-7PG was inducted in 2001!!! No one gave a shit if it operates sidewinder or not. But when you talk about HQ-16A operating from SMART-S mk2, thats a different ballgame. The PLA, PLAAF, PLAN all actively operate this weapon. The Chinese dont want its source codes in western hands. Same is true for SD-10.That is the reason why PAF JF-17 will operate Chinese AESA AND WEAPONS. Otherwise the JF-17 Would be armed with AMRAAM. The reverse is also true. Italians dont want Chinese knowing their radar codes (to integrate sd-10 or pl-15 onto Vixen 1000E). Hence PAF wont operate it. BUT it would be am option married to Meteor and ASRAAM for a foreign buyer.

 

[Basel]

That is not entirely accurate/true. You may be referring to F-7s which operate sidewinders. While the platform is indeed Chinese/Russian in origin, the fire control radar is Italian and as such integration of sidewinders is a given. The reverse is true for the Amazons which operates the LY-60 SAM. They are British in origin and while the LY-60 is actually an Aspide (Italian) which itself is based on Aim-7 Sparrow. Beyond that, these all were already obsolete at the time of induction. Think about the fact that F-7PG was inducted in 2001!!! No one gave a shit if it operates sidewinder or not. But when you talk about HQ-16A operating from SMART-S mk2, thats a different ballgame. The PLA, PLAAF, PLAN all actively operate this weapon. The Chinese dont want its source codes in western hands. Same is true for SD-10.That is the reason why PAF JF-17 will operate Chinese AESA AND WEAPONS. Otherwise the JF-17 Would be armed with AMRAAM. The reverse is also true. Italians dont want Chinese knowing their radar codes (to integrate sd-10 or pl-15 onto Vixen 1000E). Hence PAF wont operate it. BUT it would be am option married to Meteor and ASRAAM for a foreign buyer.

Nope, many systems from east have western subsystems including F-22P & AK tank.

 

[Tank131]

Nope, many systems from east have western subsystems including F-22P & AK tank.

Subsystems maybe, but these are more plug and play and often serve a particular function. They are not integrating weapons systems from one are with radars and firing controls of another. Btw i am unaware of ANY western system on F-22P. Can you shed more light on this?

 

[HRK]

Subsystems maybe, but these are more plug and play and often serve a particular function. They are not integrating weapons systems from one are with radars and firing controls of another. Btw i am unaware of ANY western system on F-22P. Can you shed more light on this?

Sonar Suit, Engine .... are two publicly known western system installed on F-22P

 

[Tank131]

Sonar Suit, Engine .... are two publicly known western system installed on F-22P

Thanks. But again my point regarding weapons systems integration stands. You can add to the above list honeywell engine in K-8 and Martin bakee ejection seats but those again dont require sharing sensitive information

 

[HRK]

Thanks. But again my point regarding weapons systems integration stands. You can add to the above list honeywell engine in K-8 and Martin bakee ejection seats but those again dont require sharing sensitive information

Actually I was not following your discussion with Basel about weapon integration .... I just read that post of your saw the query about western subsystem on F-22P so replied .....

But one thing we can say about the upgrades of F-22P is that PN is looking other than OEM sources as well .... so what could be the upgrade package is premature to comment at this stage ....

 

[Basel]

Subsystems maybe, but these are more plug and play and often serve a particular function. They are not integrating weapons systems from one are with radars and firing controls of another. Btw i am unaware of ANY western system on F-22P. Can you shed more light on this?

You are unaware of many things, kindly get awareness then talk on subject please.

 

[Tank131]

You are unaware of many things, kindly get awareness then talk on subject please.

Tell you what, l get awareness when you stop being a rude jackass. I asked you ernestly to expand on your comments on F-22P. HRK kindly did so. But my point remained that nothing to do with the integration of weapons systems and sensors has crossed East/West in Pakistans modern military. IE radars from china married to missiles from the west or vice versa. It is this way obviously due to political issues but is it true. It could be made untrue if china or a western oem budges, but that doesnt seem likely. Now unless you can enlighten us as to the exceptions i suggest you stop puffing out your chest like some beauty pagent reject.

 

[Basel]

Tell you what, l get awareness when you stop being a rude jackass. I asked you ernestly to expand on your comments on F-22P. HRK kindly did so. But my point remained that nothing to do with the integration of weapons systems and sensors has crossed East/West in Pakistans modern military. IE radars from china married to missiles from the west or vice versa. It is this way obviously due to political issues but is it true. It could be made untrue if china or a western oem budges, but that doesnt seem likely. Now unless you can enlighten us as to the exceptions i suggest you stop puffing out your chest like some beauty pagent reject.

First learn ethics then talk to other, people like you are burden on Pakistan.

Post reported.

 

[ARMalik]

The Turks utilise Naval equivalent MIL-STD 1553, MIL-STD 1760 (and so on) or Equivalent NATO standards. This applies to Milgem ships as well. Hence PN can literally plug and play anything, East or West, as long as the provider is also producing products as per these standards. So technically, there is nothing stopping PN from using variety of radars, weapons and so on, unless there is political decision not to do so. But I would find it highly unlikely that PN or Pakistan Military would put some sort of restrictions on the weapons originating from East or West because it defeats the whole purpose of Pakistan Military's diversification plans.

 

[Tank131]

First learn ethics then talk to other, people like you are burden on Pakistan.

Post reported.

Good to know since i am not technically pakistani but of Pakistani origin. As far as ethics you hypocrite, you are the one who took a legitimate question where i was seeking your input and made a deragatory comment. People like you who think they are entitled to abuse others on this forum because they are hidden behind their keyboards are not only a burden on Pakistan but on healthy discussions here. Fix your arrogant attitude before you ever talk to anyone here again. Look on this forum and you will never find me having talked to anyone in the manner you have, but im not gonna sit back and listen to abuse from dillweeds like yourself. Needless to say you have not been able to answer my question because you are too wrapper into a rage bender so i will be ignoring you for now.

You are also reported.

 

[araz]

You are unaware of many things, kindly get awareness then talk on subject please.

Iam sorry to say but your remark came as a disappointment to me. You havealways been a keen and level headed poster but this one is very unlike you. As a senior poster you have certin responsibilities and a level of professionalism you need to maintain. If you dont agree with another poster but cannot disclose information please agree to disagree and move on.
I hope you will take this post in the light in which it is written.
Regards
A

Thanks. But again my point regarding weapons systems integration stands. You can add to the above list honeywell engine in K-8 and Martin bakee ejection seats but those again dont require sharing sensitive information

PN has had issues in the past integrating Eastern and Western systems. They tried to integrate systems on the F21s and did not succeed. However things have moved on from there. As the aviation industry has moved people are gaining more and more confidence and trying to integrate armaments from multiple providers. However, from the recent contracts on the 90Bs it seems we still have some way to go. The real test may well come with the refitting of the 22s.
To a rank outsider like me it seems PN and indeed multiple branches of Pak forces appear not to be collaborating with each other to utilize each other's skill sets. Lets see how this pans out.
A

 

[araz]

Pakistan owns most of the JF-17 project, so any constraint there is largely removable if you put money into it. That's why PAC/AvRID is working on sourcing an original AESA radar internally.

I wonder if someone could shed some light on the issue of collaboration between the various branches of the Pak forces.
The point I am trying to make is that whereas AWC is working on an indegenous AESA could this effort on success be translated into AESA radars for the PA and PN. I fail to understand why we cannot translate one aspect of success into another.
A2A missiles are another sphere of interoperability. Can it be translated into SAMs as the tech for the rocket should be the same. Possibly the constraints of miniaturization might not be required for a SAM as it would for an AAM. Once in case of success with MRAAM can we translate it into Medium to long range SAMS and so on.
If someone can highlight what the tech difficulties are I would be obliged. To me commonality of armaments will lead to economy of scale as well as enough orders for the country to be able to manufacture the systems.
A

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I wonder if someone could shed some light on the issue of collaboration between the various branches of the Pak forces.
The point I am trying to make is that whereas AWC is working on an indegenous AESA could this effort on success be translated into AESA radars for the PA and PN. I fail to understand why we cannot translate one aspect of success into another.
A2A missiles are another sphere of interoperability. Can it be translated into SAMs as the tech for the rocket should be the same. Possibly the constraints of miniaturization might not be required for a SAM as it would for an AAM. Once in case of success with MRAAM can we translate it into Medium to long range SAMS and so on.
If someone can highlight what the tech difficulties are I would be obliged. To me commonality of armaments will lead to economy of scale as well as enough orders for the country to be able to manufacture the systems.
A

It's probably still siloed.

There's some cooperation, e.g. PAC was rewiring the PAA's AH-1s, and if PAA and PN select AW139, PAC can support them.

Otherwise, it seems AvRID and AWC are primarily doing PAF work.

We don't yet have an overarching electronics bureau to streamline interservices radar work, though NRTC could be a starting point.

Sadly, silos and limited vision prevail.

 

[MastanKhan]

You are unaware of many things, kindly get awareness then talk on subject please.

Hi,

Oh wow---.

Seems like you got a promotion at work or got the ear of your boss.

This kind of attitude with one of the most literate person on naval weapons systems on the forum is strange to say the least---.