Pakistan takes deliveries of 3 SAAB-2000 Aircraft

[Pakistani Fighter]

It would be interesting if the PAF makes a move for Erieye ERs, especially through a new platform (e.g., Bombardier Global 6000, DHC Q400, etc). If they put aside off-the-shelf fighters, then adding more AEW&C (as well as EW/ECM and other ISR assets) is a lot more doable, maybe even advisable.

Why not upgrade existing ones to ER version. Fighter jets have their own use. Fighters are necassary especially 4.5 gen ones

 

[Haris Ali2140]

What is difference between Erieye, Erieye-ER and Global Eye??

GlobaEye is a platform which uses EriEye ER radar. EriEye is the radar we use on our SAAB 2000 planes. EriEye ER is advanced version of EriEye AESA radar.

Why not upgrade existing ones to ER version. Fighter jets have their own use. Fighters are necassary especially 4.5 gen ones

Cant upgrade them. Both are very different.

 

[Basel]

GlobaEye is a platform which uses EriEye ER radar. EriEye is the radar we use on our SAAB 2000 planes. EriEye ER is advanced version of EriEye AESA radar.


Cant upgrade them. Both are very different.

That is why I asked about difference in capability of these systems.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think you're referring to the GlobalEye, the very one that is only operated by the UAEAF.

Yeah, there is no chance in hell will we ever be able to afford those on our tight budget.

There is the poor-man's GlobalEye - the Embraer R-99 which cost around USD $80 Million. But..., I believe India is operating a variant of it as well.

Embraer R-99

Each GlobalEye (Erieye ER + Global 6000) costs around $280 m. It's very expensive (more so for the radar -- a 70%+ range improvement over the Erieye than the plane), but doable for the PAF. Just put things into context: a squadron of new Western fighters would run you $4-6 billion, but you only have 1/4 the fiscal means for it.

Thus, the PAF can those funds towards 2-3 GlobalEye AEW&C and new GaN-equipped EW/ECM/EA aircraft. But what's the benefit? Well, now your 75-odd F-16s and 120+ JF-17s (growing to 200+) will get a layered airborne radar coverage: nearly 700 km via the GlobalEye and 400 km via the Erieye. So why all that range though? Well, you can now look deep into India's borders without being near their long-range SAMs.

It's definitely a trade-off between off-the-shelf fighters and newer support assets. But since we do have an in-house fighter, I'd rather we acquire assets that make it better, than to get an imported fighter. The money we could spend on an import, it ought to go into developing our own BVRAAM and WVRAAM, getting more support assets, etc.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

They scan the seas

Sir but we have ATR 72s equipped with Sea Spray 7300E which can scan the seas too maybe 300+km.

A new squadron is to be raised at Bholari AFB with SAAB 2000's. Keeping Indians on their feet on Rajasthan borders too.

The squadron will also lend support to squadrons based in Jaccoabad.

I have heard new fighters squadron will also be raised at Bholari

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

That is why I asked about difference in capability of these systems.

Erieye ER is a new GaN-based AESA radar. Offers 70%+ more range than the Erieye (among other benefits, e.g., much more target tracking, better over-the-horizon performance, etc).

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Each GlobalEye (Erieye ER + Global 6000) costs around $280 m. It's very expensive (more so for the radar -- a 70%+ range improvement over the Erieye than the plane), but doable for the PAF. Just put things into context: a squadron of new Western fighters would run you $4-6 billion, but you only have 1/4 the fiscal means for it.

Thus, the PAF can those funds towards 2-3 GlobalEye AEW&C and new GaN-equipped EW/ECM/EA aircraft. But what's the benefit? Well, now your 75-odd F-16s and 120+ JF-17s (growing to 200+) will get a layered airborne radar coverage: nearly 700 km via the GlobalEye and 400 km via the Erieye. So why all that range though? Well, you can now look deep into India's borders without being near their long-range SAMs.

It's definitely a trade-off between off-the-shelf fighters and newer support assets. But since we do have an in-house fighter, I'd rather we acquire assets that make it better, than to get an imported fighter. The money we could spend on an import, it ought to go into developing our own BVRAAM and WVRAAM, getting more support assets, etc.

I think we have passed this point now. The optimal time to made such a decision would have been before the purchave of additional EriEyes.

 

[Basel]

Sir but we have ATR 72s equipped with Sea Spray 7300E which can scan the seas too maybe 300+km.


I have heard new fighters squadron will also be raised at Bholari

It allows flexibility in operations, and also allow PAF to vector its attack on enemy sea vessels.

Erieye ER is a new GaN-based AESA radar. Offers 70%+ more range than the Erieye (among other benefits, e.g., much more target tracking, better over-the-horizon performance, etc).

The current AESA of our Erieye not GaN based?

https://saab.com/air/airborne-solutions/airborne-surveillance/globaleye/

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think we have passed this point now. The optimal time to made such a decision would have been before the purchave of additional EriEyes.

Not necessarily. The PAF had always wanted 6 Erieye AEW&C, it just cut the order to 4 due to the earthquake. But it already built the infrastructure to support the Erieye, so each additional system was $90-100 m, a decent price for a very good system. However, you can take it to a whole new level with the Erieye-ER, even if it's only 2 units -- you'll need to prepare for the day the Indians get S-400s.

It allows flexibility in operations, and also allow PAF to vector its attack on enemy sea vessels.



The current AESA of our Erieye not GaN based?

https://saab.com/air/airborne-solutions/airborne-surveillance/globaleye/

No. GaA.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Pakistan takes deliveries of 3 SAAB-2000 Aircraft

According to publicly available import and export (EXIM) registries, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) received three Saab 2000 aircraft on 06 April 2019. These Saab 2000s appear to be from an order of three aircraft made by Pakistan’s Directorate General of Defence Purchases (DGDP) in February 2018.

Skyworld Aviation, an aircraft sales and leasing broker, delivered the aircraft – i.e., J-038, J-024, and J-062 – to the DGDP in November 2018. The PAF had originally ordered five Saab 2000s, i.e., four to house the Erieye airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) system and one for VIP flights and training.

In 2012, one of the four Erieye AEW&C was written-off, while two were seriously damaged. However, the two damaged aircraft were repaired at Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and, in turn, resulted in PAC building depot-level maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) capabilities.

In 2017, the PAF reportedly ordered three additional Erieye AEW&C aircraft (Air Forces Monthly), of which the first was slated for delivery in December 2017 and the remaining two in 2018. If completed, this would raise the PAF fleet to six, which it trimmed to four following the 2005 earthquake in Kashmir.

Quwa’s examination of EXIM logs show that Saab made major radar equipment deliveries to Pakistan in 2017 and 2018. In March 2019, Sweden’s Inspectorate of Strategic Products confirmed that Saab sold an Erieye AEW&C system to Pakistan in 2018. However, the Inspectorate had reportedly added that this Erieye order was in relation to the PAF’s original order (i.e., to replace the written-off unit), and that “no new export transactions have been approved to Pakistan since 2007.”

I often wonder about those terrorists, who targeted our those assets, which had nothing to do with our operations in waziristan, and pure maritime capability, a capability, whose only target was India, and no one else.
My question is, when will we tell the puppeteer of those terrorists that: you have to pay with the new aircrafts for old aircrafts.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

Not necessarily. The PAF had always wanted 6 Erieye AEW&C, it just cut the order to 4 due to the earthquake. But it already built the infrastructure to support the Erieye, so each additional system was $90-100 m, a decent price for a very good system. However, you can take it to a whole new level with the Erieye-ER, even if it's only 2 units -- you'll need to prepare for the day the Indians get S-400s.


No. GaA.

Do you know if PAF has specified how many AWACS they need???

 

[TheTallGuy]

Do you know if PAF has specified how many AWACS they need???

1 in air(FMC), 1 on tarmac(FMC), 1 in routine maintenance(PMC) per sector North/Center/South East/Maritime probabaly 12 to 14 (including attrition)

 

[Trailer23]

Do you know if PAF has specified how many AWACS they need???

The suppose the more interesting question is, which AWACS are they looking to acquire?

@TheTallGuy

 

[Haris Ali2140]

The suppose the more interesting question is, which AWACS are they looking to acquire?

@TheTallGuy

If their requirement is of 10 AWACS then no use in hypothetical scenarios. That's why I asked it.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

1 in air(FMC), 1 on tarmac(FMC), 1 in routine maintenance(PMC) per sector North/Center/South East/Maritime probabaly 12 to 14 (including attrition)

Yep. Plus, not all regional needs are identical. So, SAC will have more AEW&C at hand (KE + Erieye) than Northern and Central. However, Northern is a hot-spot for air skirmishes, while India will also concentrate more assets there, such as S-400 or Patriot (whichever comes). The flexibility the Erieye AEW&C may enjoy today may not exist later on, the PAF might need to push its AEW&C back deeper into Pakistan. Cue the need for Erieye-ER, or trying some other paradigm entirely, like HALE UAVs with AESA radars.