Pakistan National Anthem (Quami Tarana) Persian Myth

[lastofthepatriots]

99.99% of National Anthem is Persian by Vocabulary and by grammar, Why we always have to twist facts?



Persian was replaced by Urdu by 1947 and Urdu became language of Muslims of Central and Western part of Indian Subcontinent because of politics , So it was logical and good choice for National language. It will replace local languages as first language of people in next few decades for good.

kaam kar avda. People speak Punjabi in villages.

 

[TMA]

dude get real, its persian, Urdu is a mix of many language
pickup any Persian paper and you will make sense of 50% of its contents, that is if you know Urdu

I get the vocabulary is the same in a lot of cases. I do not dispute this. Like English and French.

But go and speak Urdu (Hindi) in Isfahan and see if they understand you.
Get an Isfahani and ask him to speak Persian in Rawalpindi and see if the Pakistanis understand him.

99.99% of National Anthem is Persian by Vocabulary and by grammar, Why we always have to twist facts?



Persian was replaced by Urdu by 1947 and Urdu became language of Muslims of Central and Western part of Indian Subcontinent because of politics , So it was logical and good choice for National language. It will replace local languages as first language of people in next few decades for good.

I hope it does not replace but becomes another language.
Persian was replaced way before 1947. It was done by the British.


Also Pakistan has not really imposed Urdu on herself, only on paper not in practice.
This is partly because Urdu (original Hindi) is very similar to the re sanskritised Hindi in its spoken form and due to the soft power of Bollywood, Pakistanis understand Bollywood films better than Iqbal's poetry. What a shame!!!!

Perhaps if the Founding Fathers had this clairvoyance they would have chosen another language.
Perhaps they could have chosen to revive the language by which the religion of Abraham (PBUH) came to us in the Subcontinent of India? Perhaps they could have chosen to reconnect us to the Muslim past of India?

But what is done is done. Pakistan MUST enforce Urdu. In courts. In business. In schools. In all state institutions.
On state buildings. And not this inferiority complex infested Urdu.....personally I do not think the powers that be actual want Urdu to have such a role...they are happy with the status quo...

http://www.nlpd.gov.pk/index.php

 

[Sugarcane]

Also Pakistan has not really imposed Urdu on herself, only on paper not in practice.

Only good thing which we have done in last 7 decades is not shoving Urdu in throats of people instead letting people willing adopt that, Otherwise Sindh, KPK & Baluchistan would have gone Bangladesh way. Keep in mind even British had to separate Sindh from Bombay presidency root cause was imposition of Hindi. Even in Punjab British faced resistance on imposition of Urdu (although not at scale of Sindh) but they somewhat succeeded at official level but education system collapsed.

This is partly because Urdu (original Hindi) is very similar to the re sanskritised Hindi in its spoken form and due to the soft power of Bollywood, Pakistanis understand Bollywood films better than Iqbal's poetry. What a shame!!!!

What's shame in it, It's natural that for Pakistanis Bollywood films are more understandable because of common vocabulary as well as grammar. Plus most of the script writer has been Urdu speaking hence less Sanskrit words, it's only recent that they have started using more Sanskrit vocabulary but still Pakistani can't understand or pronounce these words but can figure out meaning because of context and rest of sentence. To Understand Iqbal's poetry properly, you should have knowledge of Persian lacking it creates problem with understanding.

Perhaps if the Founding Fathers had this clairvoyance they would have chosen another language.
Perhaps they could have chosen to revive the language by which the religion of Abraham (PBUH) came to us in the Subcontinent of India? Perhaps they could have chosen to reconnect us to the Muslim past of India?

Arabic wasn't possible in any way, Urdu had become synonyms to Muslims because of politics and had already replaced Persian. So, it was logical choice any other regional language would have created more troubles.

But what is done is done. Pakistan MUST enforce Urdu. In courts. In business. In schools. In all state institutions.
On state buildings. And not this inferiority complex infested Urdu.....personally I do not think the powers that be actual want Urdu to have such a role...they are happy with the status quo...

As stated above, you can't enforce something. Urdu isn't fit for education this was stated over hundred years ago and is even more true in 21st century, we should stop wasting more time with this experiment and make Education in English. it's also not fit for Business in current era of globalization and technology. In short, we must stop the idiotic idea of Purification & Imposing Urdu, and let the language develop by natural course and people willing adopting it as primary language instead of current second and third language position. Urdu media is doing that work.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I have no idea why people insist on claiming that our national anthem is written in Persian...every single word in the verses are used in Urdu, and can be found in any Urdu dictionary.

Urdu heavily borrowed from Persian when Khariboli and Persian came in contact with one another during the Mughul Empire in the 14th century AD, which led to the formation of Urdu. But at least half were in turn adopted into Persian from Arabic, so why not claim that the anthem is in Arabic too? Urdu and Persian have common words, that doesn't turn Urdu into Persian either.

English borrows heavily from Latin and French, doesn't mean it is "Latinized English" or "French English"? Urdu borrows from Persian, Middle Indo-Aryan Languages (Khariboli) and Arabic but it's a separate language nevertheless. All the words in the National Anthem are Urdu. Just because they have commonality with Persian doesn't mean the lyrics are in Persian. Persian itself borrows heavily from Arabic. Does that make it Arabicized Persian? Finally, the author of the national anthem, Hafeez Jullundhri, was an Urdu language poet and did not write Persian poetry. So this means that he wrote the national anthem in Urdu. The fact that it has commonality with Persian is irrelevant and does not make it any less Urdu. Also, it doesn't make sense that if Urdu was declared the National Language of Pakistan, the National Anthem would be commissioned to be written in any language other than Urdu.

And what exactly is 'Persianized Urdu' anyway? Classical Urdu was always spoken and written like this. Urdu poetry is always written in this manner too and is never called Persianized Urdu. No one calls the poetry of Mir Taqi Mir, Iqbal, or Faiz Persianized Urdu. Equally ridiculous is the caption under the Urdu text of the anthem that says the anthem in Persianized Urdu... What does that mean? All Urdu is written in Nastaliq.

An anthem will always be written in classical vernacular and not street slang, so why repeatedly use an invented term (Persianized Urdu)?

And to see some stupid Pakistanis repeat this myth is just mind numbing. This is how URDU was traditionally spoken...just because you lot are illiterate in Urdu and weren't taught it properly, doesn't mean the Quami Tarana is in Persian...it just means you're a moron.

beta G its written in Farsi......since u foreign based Pakistanis arnt taught in the history of our country and region its not surprising that u people dont know about it. Farsi was the official language of Muslim Empire of Hindustan, it was the language of Darbars and courts etc.....Abt a century ago when quomi tarana was written in 1931 farsi was still big thing so much so that it was considered as the language of the educated! just like English is today considered the language of educated today.

When British captured Dehli in 1857 it was they who brought english in this region, and replaced farsi with it as official language.

Our Quomi Tarana is written in Farsi to keep up and in respect of our past and in respect of our Actual official language Farsi......To this day almost all of our South Asian Muslim literature is still written in Farsi including abt 82% of entire philosophy and work of our national poet Allama Iqbal!!!!!!

 

[xyxmt]

I get the vocabulary is the same in a lot of cases. I do not dispute this. Like English and French.

But go and speak Urdu (Hindi) in Isfahan and see if they understand you.
Get an Isfahani and ask him to speak Persian in Rawalpindi and see if the Pakistanis understand him.

http://www.nlpd.gov.pk/index.php

if you know Italian or Portagues you can read spanish and make some sense of it...i say read, not speak...All languages are spoken differently but common words are written almost same..This is the reason I said make an Iranian read (not read to him) and see if he understands.

 

[Sugarcane]

if you know Italian or Portagues you can read spanish and make some sense of it...i say read, not speak...All languages are spoken differently but common words are written almost same..This is the reason I said make an Iranian read (not read to him) and see if he understands.

You don't need to explain an Iranian the meanings of Anthem, but you have to do so to Pakistanis. That's simplest way to find out in which language it is.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

What Dr Israr Ahmed spoke in his lectures and what the FM spoke at the UNGA was Urdu. And not sophisticated Urdu, just Urdu as by definition Urdu is sophisticated.

This should be our model. We need to return prestige and honor back into Urdu. Let’s stop idolizing the West and trying to force English.

For the sole reason of Allama Iqbal and other scholars who wrote in Farsi, we should make exposure/education of Farsi more prevalent in our society.

 

[xyxmt]

You don't need to explain an Iranian the meanings of Anthem, but you have to do so to Pakistanis. That's simplest way to find out in which language it is.

that was what I said in my first reply

 

[TMA]

Only good thing which we have done in last 7 decades is not shoving Urdu in throats of people instead letting people willing adopt that, Otherwise Sindh, KPK & Baluchistan would have gone Bangladesh way. Keep in mind even British had to separate Sindh from Bombay presidency root cause was imposition of Hindi. Even in Punjab British faced resistance on imposition of Urdu (although not at scale of Sindh) but they somewhat succeeded at official level but education system collapsed.



What's shame in it, It's natural that for Pakistanis Bollywood films are more understandable because of common vocabulary as well as grammar. Plus most of the script writer has been Urdu speaking hence less Sanskrit words, it's only recent that they have started using more Sanskrit vocabulary but still Pakistani can't understand or pronounce these words but can figure out meaning because of context and rest of sentence. To Understand Iqbal's poetry properly, you should have knowledge of Persian lacking it creates problem with understanding.



Arabic wasn't possible in any way, Urdu had become synonyms to Muslims because of politics and had already replaced Persian. So, it was logical choice any other regional language would have created more troubles.



As stated above, you can't enforce something. Urdu isn't fit for education this was stated over hundred years ago and is even more true in 21st century, we should stop wasting more time with this experiment and make Education in English. it's also not fit for Business in current era of globalization and technology. In short, we must stop the idiotic idea of Purification & Imposing Urdu, and let the language develop by natural course and people willing adopting it as primary language instead of current second and third language position. Urdu media is doing that work.

Perhaps impose is not the correct word. Rather enforce.
The Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, 1973
National Language
Article 251:
(1) The National language of Pakistan is Urdu, and arrangements shall be made for its being used for official and other purposes within fifteen years from the commencing day.
(2) Subject to clause (1), the English language may be used for official purposes until arrangements are made for its replacement by Urdu.
(3) Without prejudice to the status of the National language, a Provincial Assembly may by law prescribe measures for the teaching, promotion and use of a provincial language in addition to the national language.

دستور پاکستان کے آرٹیکل ۲۵۱ کے مطابق:
۔ پاکستان کی قومی زبان اردو ہے اور یوم آغاز سے پندرہ برس کے اندر اندر اس کو سرکاری و دیگر اغراض کے لیے استعمال کرنے کے انتظامات کیے جائیں گے۔
۔ شق ۔ ۱ کےتابع، انگریزی زبان اس وقت تک سرکاری اغراض کے لیے استعمال کی جاسکے گی، جب تک کہ اس کے اردو سے تبدیل کرنے کے انتظامات نہ ہوجائیں۔
۔ قومی زبان کی حیثیت کو متاثر کیے بغیر، کوئی صوبائی اسمبلی قانون کے ذریعہ قومی زبان کے علاوہ کسی صوبائی زبان کی تعلیم، ترقی اور اس کے استعمال کے لیے اقدامات تجویز کرسکے گی۔​

http://www.nlpd.gov.pk/en/index.php

Urdu can be made fit. It just requires a WILL. That is all.
A nation can teach more than one language to their children. It just needs a proper education system.
The problem is not the Language of Urdu but the people....