Pakistan may study other fighter options as US asks Pakistan to make full payment for F-16 purchase

[Mrc]

I personally strongly oppose paying up for the planes.... if they are paid for by support fubd thats fine....

Other wise use the money to equip jf with more descent targettibg pod....instead of buying 8 planes for a billion dolkars

 

[MastanKhan]

So, it means that we have 430 mil left in USA.. is there any other way deal to utilize that money or they can just transfer 430 mil to GOP..

@Quwa @fatman17 @MastanKhan @Windjammer @Horus @Irfan Baloch @volatile @Bilal Khan 777 @ACE OF THE AIR @Bratva @Syed.Ali.Haider

Hi,

It is better to get some more helicopters---.

 

[princefaisal]

if we dont get F-16s, then where the 700 million US $ will go?

 

[FalconsForPeace]

if we dont get F-16s, then where the 700 million US $ will go?

Some other weapons like bullets to kill all enemies of Pakistan.

 

[cloud4000]

if we dont get F-16s, then where the 700 million US $ will go?

You mean $270 million. This is Pakistan's contribution to the deal.

 

[waz]

It seems Pakistan want to use FMS money for F-16s because it is bonus purchase for PAF allowing more money for other projects, but if had to pay full for those jets then PAF may want to go for true 4.5+ gen plane which supersedes F-16s because funds will have to squeezed from other projects so new purchase should compensate those shortcomings too.

Yes that makes sense. I fully agree that if they have to pay the full amount, without access to FMS, then they should go for something else. I say the Typhoon, but it is expensive priced at £87 million each.

 

[Penguin]

Responsibility for Congress agreement rests with Obama admin: Tareq Fatemi
ISLAMABAD (Dunya News) – With Pakistan’s F-16 fighter jets’ sale hanging in the balance, Special Assistant to the Prime Minister (PM) Tariq Fatemi Saturday stated that the responsibility for making the US Congress agree rests with the Obama administration.

Talking with the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), Fatemi stated that a sentiment against the provision of military and financial aid to foreign countries was found within the Congress.

Fatemi further stated that the US administration’s offer of military aid to Pakistan was present.

Answering a question regarding the Congress denial of approving an aid offered by the US government for the purchase of F-16 fighter jets, Fatemi stated that this deal was not over yet.

Anyone that thinks the administration can make Congress do X or Y doesn't understand how the US system of government works.

The United States Congress is the legislative branch of the federal government. The approval of both chambers is required to pass any legislation, which then may only become law by being signed by the President (or, if the President vetoes the bill, both houses of Congress then re-pass the bill, but by a two-thirds majority of each chamber, in which case the bill becomes law without the President's signature).
The executive power in the federal government is vested in the President of the United States. The President may sign legislation passed by Congress into law or may veto it, preventing it from becoming law unless two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to override the veto. The President may unilaterally sign treaties with foreign nations. However, ratification of international treaties requires a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate.
The Judiciary explains and applies the laws. This branch does this by hearing and eventually making decisions on various legal cases.

 

[313baberali]

Anyone that thinks the administration can make Congress do X or Y doesn't understand how the US system of government works.

The United States Congress is the legislative branch of the federal government. The approval of both chambers is required to pass any legislation, which then may only become law by being signed by the President (or, if the President vetoes the bill, both houses of Congress then re-pass the bill, but by a two-thirds majority of each chamber, in which case the bill becomes law without the President's signature).
The executive power in the federal government is vested in the President of the United States. The President may sign legislation passed by Congress into law or may veto it, preventing it from becoming law unless two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to override the veto. The President may unilaterally sign treaties with foreign nations. However, ratification of international treaties requires a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate.
The Judiciary explains and applies the laws. This branch does this by hearing and eventually making decisions on various legal cases.

thats why Fatemi talks about Administration

 

[Basel]

Yes that makes sense. I fully agree that if they have to pay the full amount, without access to FMS, then they should go for something else. I say the Typhoon, but it is expensive priced at £87 million each.

A package deal should be sorted out if Pakistan want to go for EFT or Su-35, buying just jets will be expensive and bit harder to bargain, but if a package (all 3 services equipment) deal is made like jets, ships (used or new) LRSAMS etc. It may be good to have.

 

[Penguin]

thats why Fatemi talks about Administration

That still it the executive branch. They don't make the law.

 

[313baberali]

That still it the executive branch. They don't make the law.

So what you say is now F16 are locked by Law
?
So where are F16 Now
Red Blue Green Black
The United States Congress is the legislative branch of the federal government. The approval of both chambers is required to pass any legislation, which then may only become law by being signed by the President (or, if the President vetoes the bill, both houses of Congress then re-pass the bill, but by a two-thirds majority of each chamber, in which case the bill becomes law without the President's signature).
The executive power in the federal government is vested in the President of the United States. The President may sign legislation passed by Congress into law or may veto it, preventing it from becoming law unless two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to override the veto. The President may unilaterally sign treaties with foreign nations. However, ratification of international treaties requires a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate.
The Judiciary explains and applies the laws. This branch does this by hearing and eventually making decisions on various legal cases

 

[Penguin]

So what you say is now F16 are locked by Law
?
So where are F16 Now
Red Blue Green Black
The United States Congress is the legislative branch of the federal government. The approval of both chambers is required to pass any legislation, which then may only become law by being signed by the President (or, if the President vetoes the bill, both houses of Congress then re-pass the bill, but by a two-thirds majority of each chamber, in which case the bill becomes law without the President's signature).
The executive power in the federal government is vested in the President of the United States. The President may sign legislation passed by Congress into law or may veto it, preventing it from becoming law unless two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to override the veto. The President may unilaterally sign treaties with foreign nations. However, ratification of international treaties requires a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate.
The Judiciary explains and applies the laws. This branch does this by hearing and eventually making decisions on various legal cases

As post 1 article states

United States (US) Congress Committee has interrupted financial aid worth USD 430 million to Pakistan putting sale of eight F-16 fighter jets on the line once again, Dunya News reported Friday.

Department of State stated to a British journal that Obama government is in favour of supplying F-16s to Pakistan but US aid would not be used for the purpose.

the US administration has already supported F-16s sale to Pakistan however purchase of arms and ammunition is a lengthy and time-taking procedure.

The deal between the two sides was kept alive for the past five years however, Obama government announced in February to go through with the sale formally.

See http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/government-pakistan-f-16-block-52-aircraft
The State Department [=adminisration] has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Pakistan for F-16 Block 52 Aircraft, equipment, training, and logistics support. This proposed sale contributes to U.S. foreign policy objectives and national security goals by helping to improve the security of a strategic partner in South Asia.

Who do you think the State department proposes the FMS to?

As I read it CONGRESS is holding the administrations proposal up by not allowing FMS funding.

 

[cloud4000]

So what you say is now F16 are locked by Law
?
So where are F16 Now
Red Blue Green Black
The United States Congress is the legislative branch of the federal government. The approval of both chambers is required to pass any legislation, which then may only become law by being signed by the President (or, if the President vetoes the bill, both houses of Congress then re-pass the bill, but by a two-thirds majority of each chamber, in which case the bill becomes law without the President's signature).
The executive power in the federal government is vested in the President of the United States. The President may sign legislation passed by Congress into law or may veto it, preventing it from becoming law unless two-thirds of both houses of Congress vote to override the veto. The President may unilaterally sign treaties with foreign nations. However, ratification of international treaties requires a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate.
The Judiciary explains and applies the laws. This branch does this by hearing and eventually making decisions on various legal cases

Why is this so difficult? President Obama asks Congress to give Pakistan $430 million towards purchase of F-16s. Congress says no. End of story.

Congress controls the purse strings in US, not the President.

 

[leftfordead]

still time to pull out of this F-16 dilemma .. buy something else like more Attack Helicopters or AAM .. better work on something else like Su35 or EFT ..

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

money that can be used on US hardware only, CSF already transferred.

If Pakistan uses her cards properly and the Government is able to relocate funds from the budget to PAF, Pakistan can get Passenger Aircraft or Trains or Cruise Ships, Cargo Ships or some other civilian technology that is required to build CPEC.

The US would like to pay for the services they are taking. US FMS might be restricted but other non military equipment can still be procured.

Yes that makes sense. I fully agree that if they have to pay the full amount, without access to FMS, then they should go for something else. I say the Typhoon, but it is expensive priced at £87 million each.

1) The price that EFT were offered to PAF was around 4-5 Billion for 70-90 aircraft.
2) There was also a plane to have Turkey build these aircraft and then export them over to Pakistan if PAF increased the order to that similar to Indian MMRCA.
3) EFT might be built in Pakistan in case the GCC countries increase their orders and Germany also increases to the original option.

The cost of Trench 3 is close to 100 million but it can be brought to the levels of 70 million if local assembly is developed. PAF can get 100 -140 aircraft for 7 - 10 billion and that too over a period of 5 years, which Pakistan can easily afford.

A package deal should be sorted out if Pakistan want to go for EFT or Su-35, buying just jets will be expensive and bit harder to bargain, but if a package (all 3 services equipment) deal is made like jets, ships (used or new) LRSAMS etc. It may be good to have.

Yes this would be very practical specially if Pakistan Navy and Army join in with there requirements.

If PN is able to fund 2 Billion for the Italian Ships along with Heli's and Pakistan Army chips in with 1-2 Billion for their requirements of Heli's and Air Defence.

A total of 6 billion in year one and 2-3 billion over the next 4-5 years PAF and PN would have developed their capabilities considerably. Grand to total over the 5 yr period would be around 15 Billion.

Add 3-5 billion for the JF-17 engines and other stuff over the same period it is something that the Europeans would not like to say no.

Even the French might come in and say to the Indians look you said Pakistan is 2 billion market only it turns out to be 20 billion you have only bought the Rafales and that too in very limited numbers.

Though I kind a find it unrealistic that PAF would go for an other platform when the J-31 and TFX are at the corner.

Here is what @Beast quoted
J-31 V2 with WS-13A Chinese domestic engine and full operation mode has just taxi

PAF shall go for this bird quickly to become the first South Asia country to operate 5th gen fighter

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/will-paf-buy-any-new-fighter-plane.428747/page-2#ixzz47LG5rrBT

Photo will arrive soon as security at Shenyang premise is very tight. The plane according to reliable witness is exactly the same as model show in Zhuhai airshow.

No more smoky engine

It will be very close to production or operation model. Customer just need to made the payment and it can be yours, just like the CH-4 or CH-5 UCAV. Ready to buy

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/will-paf-buy-any-new-fighter-plane.428747/page-2#ixzz47LGLpoQ5