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Pakistan may not buy the Chinese VT-4, but the cheaper Ukraine's T-84M or the Russian T-90S tank

ukraine will offer more.TOT to Pakistan if China push hard on VT4.
from the first begining, VT4 plays the rules of assist in this.tank.bidding. and T90 will play thr.same rule as China pull out.
Pakistani is very smart at doing business.

I think Pakistan should get the Ukrainian Oplot and get TOT, if the VT-4 is too expensive.

Then with Oplot TOT technology and with Al Khalid technology, Pakistan should create its own indigenous variant of tanks.
thats exactly what pakistan is doing
 
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Unrelated to Pakistan, but generally speaking its not a good thing, setting too high prices by the chinese defence manufacturers in the american manner

Some distinguished features such as APS may have justified steep price tag, but otherwise 6 millions seems to be too much. Although that figure stands, for the spare parts and training too. Salaries, materials, electricity costs are probably much lower in China comparing to the west. Its not good if the reason behind this is rottenness and greed of the upper menagement
 
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Unfortunately what many of my countrymen fail to understand is that there are no free lunches. Everything comes at a price.

This "higher than mountains, deeper than oceans, sweeter than honey" that many Pakistanis have blindly accepted as some divine phrase that will summon free weapons and economic aid from China is in fact just some sentimental propaganda by the political leadership of both countries, though the Chinese people have not been so gullible.

In reality China is getting ALLOT from Pakistan and in return giving not the equivalent amount, and this doesn't make Chinese evil or bad, it just shows that they are very smart and actually look out for the interests of the Chinese nation. Chinese get to dump their mass produced cheap goods into Pakistani markets and thus destroy Pakistan's native industries, Chinese get access to major Pakistani transportation infrastructure like roads, railroads, ports, etc...

Pakistani leaders on the other hand have done a fine job plundering their own country and then selling it to the highest bidder, whether to America, Saudi or now China.

But there are no free lunches. Chinese offered us a tank at a certain price and we can't afford them, end of story. Maybe we need to start putting people into office who will actually negotiate better deals for Pakistan? And if democracy has failed to give Pakistan competent and patriotic leaders then maybe we need to try a different form of government that is actually based on merit and not on the votes of the easily manipulateable masses?

@Psychic @LeGenD @Taimur Khurram @Metanoia @PakSword


And this is what we did for the Americans and the Saudis, we gave more than they were willing to reciprocate and thus the conclusions we have all seen with regards to those "allies" of ours.

Instead of becoming sentimental we need to start approaching these relations from a realistic and practical standpoint.
We give free stuffs to albania and vietnam,i am telling you huge amount of free stuffs,12 J7 fighers,45 Torpedo boats, Countless Ak-47 and bullets, 15 billion yuan (equivalent to 100 billion yuan today)....
What we get:No large-scale external aids that is the lession what we get after grant aids to more than 110 countries.
 
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India was bled.white by Russians in many military deals, that nenver happen on china-pak relationship.
for.those think Russians are angels, your expectation might fall out. overall, Chinese is not that aggressive and fuss about. we value friendship and mutual respect.
 
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India was bled.white by Russians in many military deals, that nenver happen on china-pak relationship.
for.those think Russians are angels, your expectation might fall out. overall, Chinese is not that aggressive and fuss about. we value friendship and mutual respect.
Same here,we Pakistanis value friendship and mutual respect.
 
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We give free stuffs to albania and vietnam,i am telling you huge amount of free stuffs,12 J7 fighers,45 Torpedo boats, Countless Ak-47 and bullets, 15 billion yuan (equivalent to 100 billion yuan today)....
What we get:No large-scale external aids that is the lession what we get after grant aids to more than 110 countries.
thats.the.price we have to pay for countering soviet bully.
 
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China should learn turkey to how to do bussiness with brotherly country from the military helicopter business

Bussiness is bussiness, Politics is politics

Don’t provide free lunch or purpose low price, they will take it as granted ,never cherish,even defame you
 
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Unrelated to Pakistan, but generally speaking its not a good thing, setting too high prices by the chinese defence manufacturers in the american manner

Some distinguished features such as APS may have justified steep price tag, but otherwise 6 millions seems to be too much. Although that figure stands, for the spare parts and training too. Salaries, materials, electricity costs are probably much lower in China comparing to the west. Its not good if the reason behind this is rottenness and greed of the upper menagement
the human resource cost in China is soaring at the moment.

few reasons why Vt4 loose the bid:
1. Pakistan want TOT for sub parts, and China wanna sell in one
2. the price is out of Pakistan reach.
3. Pakistan want T99A, China cant offer.

and that doesnt influence China Pak relationship at all.

i think Pakistan had already srtriked a.deal with Ukraine. a good choice.
 
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Yes, but still ....

Its still too soon, for China to play that card. Its not right time yet, IMO
VT-4 MBT 5.8 millions each take or leave it .
Thanks for your time.

I think Pakistan should get the Ukrainian Oplot and get TOT, if the VT-4 is too expensive.

Then with Oplot TOT technology and with Al Khalid technology, Pakistan should create its own indigenous variant of tanks.
That is the right way to go,even Pakistan some how get the VT-4 MBT,Pakistan should create its own core techs!!
For a 200 millions population country,Pakistan bro shold have this ambition!!

As brother of Pakistan, China hopes that Pakistan can be stronger in all aspects.
 
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Pakistan is Chinese freind, not puppet. so i respect their decision, because they pony up the bill.by themsleves. no mattet its T90 or Oplot M, as long as it.can strike the enemy, its no wrong.

PA is very actively try to induct new tanks, should give them credit not blame.

relax
 
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There are three options for the manufactures in general :

1) working with some profit rate

2) working in order, to keep the factory busy and cover all the costs and after completing the deal with zero profit

3) Having losses, which is not desirable

Due to the fact, there is portion of fixed costs with possessing and maintaining industrial facilities its sometimes wise to close the deal, just to keep tools busy and workers happy with their salaries. Till new contracts with better parameters are reached

Maybe, NORINCOs capacities are fool with completing domestic orders and they dont care too much for the export
 
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Yes, but still ....

Its still too soon, for China to play that card. Its not right time yet, IMO
China is.helping Thailand building.up a Vt4 maintenance factory, so i think 5.8 milllions per is.not.expensive.

and they pay thr.bill by barter trade with longan, not cash.

i always buy longan from Thailand to support my country.
 
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It is rumored that because of the higher price, Pakistan may not buy the Chinese VT-4, but the cheaper Ukraine's T-84M tank or the Russian T-90S tank.


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VT-4 tank exported to Thailand

As the Chinese-made VT-4 adopts internationally advanced technology and equipment, the price is relatively high. It is believed that Pakistan will not purchase the Chinese VT-4, but choose the cheaper U-T-84M tank and the Russian T-90S tank. Due to the Ukrainian civil war, the delivery capacity of the Ukrainian tank factory is questionable, so Pakistan may eventually choose the cheaper Russian T-90S tank.
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The VT-4 tank hoisted to land after arriving at the port of Thailand

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VT-4 tank road transport

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VT-4 tank arriving at the Thai military destination

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VT-4 tank internal picture


VT-4 tanks and Pakistani Khalid tanks have many shared parts. According to common sense, Pakistan should choose VT-4 tanks. However, considering the current financial situation in Pakistan, it is understandable to choose cheap tanks.

Unfortunately, Pakistan is in deep financial hardships. Every $ counts for the country. China's reserves are about 3 trillion if I'm not wrong, Pakistan's are only 8 billion.
 
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