Pakistan may not buy the Chinese VT-4, but the cheaper Ukraine's T-84M or the Russian T-90S tank

[BHarwana]

Pakistan is not buying Ukrainian tanks I know this for sure they did not passed the test. Results on VT-4 are not know so cannot.comment on it.
Russians have not been tested till now.

 

[maximuswarrior]

VT-4 broke down during tests, Oplot also broke down during tests.

Pakistan may not buy a new Tank if the potential options can't negotiate the rugged terrain in Punjab and the deserts in Sindh.

We may choose to upgrade Al-Khalid to VT-4 or Oplot standard with a new turret, optics, powerpack etc.

I think the latter is the best. We already have the expertise to buy off the shelf and integrate. China can help in this regard if need be. Upgrading Al-Khalid is the way forward. It has so many benefits. We can design the specs according to our needs, but also keeping the cost in mind. We can test the concept until we are satisfied. Our engineers will be involved and every nut and bolt will go through our inspection. Maintenance familiarity and logistics another advantage.

 

[Cybernetics]

Pakistan is not short of cash, they have just bought 30 helicopters with much higher unit price

The estimated price of the deal was $1.5 billion for 30 helicopters from Turkey, so $50 million each. That could buy about 260 VT-4 tanks, possibility more due to scale of purchase. Relatively speaking, Pakistan has a decently funded military. Price shouldn't be an issue.

Norinco just needs constant improvement from Pakistan's feedback.

 

[ARMalik]

Adam,


Is China acting a strategic partner or a mere business man. You decide.

If your answer is business then we can re-visit our mountain high claims and ocean deep claims. We will be neighbours and cooperating business partners but let's stop fooling each other at-least.

Don't worry mate, in time these Chinese will line up as well like the rest. Pakistan would be able to close of CPEC trade route whenever it would want, and the Chinese wouldn't be able do a shi.t about it.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Aid and doing business are two different things. China can give Pakistan free things, but the cost of VT-4 tanks is very high. How to reduce prices?
You go to buy a Huawei mobile phone. The price of Huawei mobile phone is 500 US dollars. If you spend 300 US dollars, will Huawei sell it to you?
Don't forget, the United States is stationed in Japan, and Japan has to pay billions of dollars a year to the United States!
The United States is stationed in South Korea, and South Korea has to pay hundreds of millions of dollars a year to the United States!

Pakistan definitely wants nuclear submarines. Can China also give Pakistani nuclear submarines free of charge? ?
Have you seen the United States free and unconditional delivery of things to other countries?

In the second Indian-Pakistan war, Chinese Premier Zhou Enlai sent the PLA in service tanks directly from PLA to Pakistan Army. Why don't you mention it?

No money, how to conduct research and development(RD) and how to master the most advanced technology?


So Pakistan wants the best tanks and do not want to pay too much?！
Is this your logic!?

The seller of the VT4 tank is China North Industries Corporation, not the Chinese government, please keep this in mind.

I agree here. We should not simplify things. I am quite certain that at the end of the day Chinese government might even negotiate with the Chinese company for a soft agreement, but that is not the point here.

Pakistan also needs to fulfil it's own requirements. It needs to be satisfied with the end product.

If Pakistan feels the Chinese tank ticks all boxes it will certainly negotiate. If not other options are always on the table. That is how the real world works.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Don't worry mate, in time these Chinese will line up as well like the rest. Pakistan would be able to close of CPEC trade route whenever it would want, and the Chinese wouldn't be able do a shi.t about it.

Pakistan will never close of CPEC trade route. To the disappointment of western aspirations and wishes.

 

[Cybernetics]

Don't worry mate, in time these Chinese will line up as well like the rest. Pakistan would be able to close of CPEC trade route whenever it would want, and the Chinese wouldn't be able do a shi.t about it.

Though a more friendly tone would be more pleasing to the ears, I appreciate the opportunity to go deeper into geopolitics, if you are interested. Though I never hope that in reality relations would get to such a point.

That is why there is a route from China through Myanmar in the making, also directly accessing the Indian Ocean. Western China may suffer a bit through that time period (higher costs) but trade can be diverted towards Kazakhstan-Russia-EU corridor, other portions of trade can travel a bit further to coastal China or Myanmar. Ukraine is proposing a new route from the Black Sea to Caspian to Central Asia to China. This is not China's doing, it's because Ukraine wants to bypass Russia, countries want to access China's market out of their own will. One route closes, another one sees greater attention.

Maybe, China would be compelled to use Chabahar through the Central Asian route in that situation. It will enable the similar access as CPEC. Once Pakistan antagonizes China, India would find a good opportunity to take advantage, China doesn't have to do much in that case.

If Pakistan severs CPEC, many projects would go unprofitable due to lack of trade and investment from China and associated effects. Iran would take advantage of this situation to promote Chabahar route along with Indian backing to eventually break free from sanctions. Gulf States' investment would follow into the route instead of to Pakistan. Due to being cut off from CPEC, China would be compelled to move the off-shored industry and investment somewhere else but preferably nearby, thus Chabahar. This fully opens up Afghanistan and the rest of Central Asia for Indian movement. China seeing the threat turns this into an opportunity through a deepening relationship with India to avoid US forces and proxies encircling China. Afghanistan seeing the opportunity fully antagonizes Pakistan to seek benefits from India. Afghanistan used to be a well off placed when it traded on the silk road, they will want their past glory again (MAGA). Now the landscape is that Pakistan is surrounded by more powerful enemies and countries that don't want to engage with it, investment will not follow all self induced. Though in this situation, the US might have an easier time deepening relations with Pakistan to further Eurasian geopolitical games but under new terms. Destroying/cutting CPEC in my opinion is destroying a major life line for Pakistan and what all its enemies want to see happen because it furthers so many other moves. It would be especially a god send for the enemies of Pakistan if it was self induced.

 

[the_messenger]

Russia has a lot of experiences in Syria for their tank, and they're in need of money , right now.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

That is why there is a route from China through Myanmar, also directly accessing the Indian Ocean. Western China may suffer a bit through that time period (higher costs) but trade can be diverted towards Kazakhstan-Russia-EU corridor, other portions of trade can travel a bit further to coastal China or Myanmar.

Maybe, China would be compelled to use Chabahar through the Central Asian route in that situation. It will enable the similar access as CPEC.

he gave you the bait and you took it.

 

[Cybernetics]

he gave you the bait and you took it.

I know, and don't really care about that, I often willingly take baits. I am interested in analysis, especially of the geopolitical sort. He presented me with an opportunity to present an analysis thus I did. Sorry if my actions are offensive but I hope there are some that enjoy a mental exercise.

It isn't every day that you are presented with such a daring hypothetical.

 

[graphican]

Don't worry mate, in time these Chinese will line up as well like the rest. Pakistan would be able to close of CPEC trade route whenever it would want, and the Chinese wouldn't be able do a shi.t about it.

I disagree. China is a friend and Pakistan would and should never go against its interest. Perhaps you have missed my point. We expect China to be as much of an ally as we think we are to them - and in this thinking money is not a factor. CPEC helps China - and Pakistan alike.

 

[ARMalik]

I disagree. China is a friend and Pakistan would and should never go against its interest. Perhaps you have missed my point. We expect China to be as much of an ally as we think we are to them - and in this thinking money is not a factor. CPEC helps China - and Pakistan alike.

Well US was a very strong ally once but things change. So will China in a few decades. You just cannot guarantee or say that China will remain friends for forever.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Yea sure, learn a few basic things about tanks before start calling them "advance". Stop talking nonsense please. Even a poor country like Ukraine has better tank technology than China.

Thailand abandon Ukrain tanks and choose China VT-4 tell story itself.
you keep live in your 3 G and 4G world,we China will keep forward to 5G along with Huawei!

 

[graphican]

Well US was a very strong ally once but things change. So will China in a few decades. You just cannot guarantee or say that China will remain friends for forever.

You got to differentiate dynamics of relationship between 12000 KM apart allies and allies that share border, benefits, potentials, possibilities and opportunities. USA could never be as helpful as a bordering country like China can be.

 

[LKJ86]

You got to differentiate dynamics of relationship between 12000 KM apart allies and allies that share border, benefits, potentials, possibilities and opportunities. USA could never be as helpful as a bordering country like China can be.

Agree.