Pakistan Inadvertantly Admits That Its First Strike Capability Is Neutered:--

[knight11]

in short Mastan saheb is advocating pakistan to send at least 50-100K spoldiers of PA to fight for saudi arbia and get the war booty of 15-25 Billion dollars , free oil for decades to come 6-8 squadrans of latest Mirage 2000s, F-15 & F-16s

which i dont think is a bad initiative i wonder why is PA so reluctant on that ?

Exactly @MastanKhan did raised few valid points, but don't understand why he is been attacked by his follow country men like this. Mastan Khan always came up with different views and I like his idea of thinking from different angle.
As far as Indian ABM is concerned, its not the matter of its percentage of effectiveness or whether it is been deployed or not, but India do have an active ABM program, and lot of stress of Indian GOI in it will force Pakistan to increase its Ballastic missile capabilities like multi target, multi warhead capable ballastic missile, which will force pakistan to invest more on this. This will put more strain on pakistani economy, in short India will use its economy to put pressure on Pakistan to increase its defence budget and increase the cost of its nuclear sabre ratting.

Mastan bhai one question for you on the theory of the Saudi F-15 and Mirrage 2005, how did you know that Pakistani involvement in Yemen crisis with its 50K troups, will make Saudi send its F-15 and Mirrage on Pakistani soil and even if they are been send can they be used against Indians and on what basis does all this theroy is based-- please clearify this.

India 's jugular vein is maharashtra and states below it----. They need just a few strikes by the heavy strike aircraft for the tourist and investment to run out of india---I don't want to declare a full fledged war on south india---just a reasonable amount to get them packing their bags and say bye bye----.

To attack Maharastra, Pakistan needs fighter plane that could drop bombs but before that that which can breech SAM, IAF, and INaF cover. And for that range, the fighter plane with 2 drop tanks, how much load could they carry and high probability of high ettiration loss, the cost of one bomb drop will be so high, which I fear is not feasible for PAF. Surface fleet have to face powerful Indian Navy, which will leave Karachi vulnerable, and with Submarine which looks like most effective and appropriate tool with its cruise missiles, could be easily neutralized with ASR capability, which India is increasing. Could you please explain how you are planning to attack such long distance along the sea.

 

[elitepilot09]

Why? Why? WHY is @MastanKhan posting such UTTERLY humiliating (for himself, as well as the seriousness of this board) posts that are literally his wet dreams?

PLEASE. Someone explain.

 

[knight11]

A balloon ? - what if A2A comes for the balloon first ? -

Better word should be Aerostat Survellance AEW system than a ballon. ARDRE is working on such Aerostat, and soon will be deployed all along the border.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Exactly @MastanKhan did raised few valid points, but don't understand why he is been attacked by his follow country men like this. Mastan Khan always came up with different views and I like his idea of thinking from different angle.
As far as Indian ABM is concerned, its not the matter of its percentage of effectiveness or whether it is been deployed or not, but India do have an active ABM program, and lot of stress of Indian GOI in it will force Pakistan to increase its Ballastic missile capabilities like multi target, multi warhead capable ballastic missile, which will force pakistan to invest more on this. This will put more strain on pakistani economy, in short India will use its economy to put pressure on Pakistan to increase its defence budget and increase the cost of its nuclear sabre ratting.

Mastan bhai one question for you on the theory of the Saudi F-15 and Mirrage 2005, how did you know that Pakistani involvement in Yemen crisis with its 50K troups, will make Saudi send its F-15 and Mirrage on Pakistani soil and even if they are been send can they be used against Indians and on what basis does all this theroy is based-- please clearify this.

well he said it itself pakistanies for last so many years are made to beleve that since now they have raad-babur and aetammy kuwwat what ever they do indian yaindoo baniya wont have guts to retaliate now what @MastanKhan is suggesting is i guess that somehow india has found a way around that super duper pakistani aetammy kuwwat & babur-raad threat and since no western nation and america is ready to part its stuff directly or inderctly with pakistan as all are favouring india and indian iterests pakistanies shoul take a daul course to get back the edge

1. make peace with saudi arabia by sending 50-100K soldiers to yemen to fight for saudies and get mucxh required cash and weapons which saudies have amassed over the years

2. try to start thinking like there paleed evil yaindoo baniya enemy to beat him in his own game


i may be wong OP & mods but these are just my observations i hope its not offensive to any one sorry for bad language or spelling mistakes

 

[knight11]

How the U.S. Army’s blimplike surveillance aircraft works - The Washington Post

10.000 Feet how much in KM, I was always attrative toward such aerostats, and Zeplins for on board AEW Radar systems. This will cut the cost per hour aerial survellance. India with such a huge and long border needs it for round the clock survellance.

 

[illusion8]

India 's jugular vein is maharashtra and states below it----. They need just a few strikes by the heavy strike aircraft for the tourist and investment to run out of india---I don't want to declare a full fledged war on south india---just a reasonable amount to get them packing their bags and say bye bye----.

It takes a convoluted mind to think of attacking civilian cities - once any city is attacked causing considerable civilian casualties then it's fully downhill from then on..

The whole world will sympathise with the attacked and nothing (even the whole UN) can stop the hit side from bombing the **** out of its adversary...All options open and all guns blazing. ..nukes be damned.

Fantasising of killing civilians is all great and hunky dory...provided if the consequences of it wouldn't be so bizarre.

I am sure PA generals aren't as stupid.

 

[calmDown@all]

10.000 Feet how much in KM,

its about 3.49 km vertically !!!
New Warfare
Akashdeep Aerostat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
further india has only 2-3 operational aerostats in its arsenal
DRDO working on New ” Nakshatra ” Aerostat | Indian Defence Forum
Advanced indigenous aerial surveillance system to be deployed along Pak border - Times of India

 

[I.R.A]

Why? Why? WHY is @MastanKhan posting such UTTERLY humiliating (for himself, as well as the seriousness of this board) posts that are literally his wet dreams?

PLEASE. Someone explain.

Not my circus but still I wonder why would not you appreciate a "What If" scenario and think over it why not consider all situations and options when you actively state that my neighbor is my one and only enemy? What is the harm in bringing this to attention? At least he is right that boasting about being a nuclear power once is fine, twice okay, but every time when you don't have enough electricity and gas to run your country is plain BS, immature stance and is like making fools of ourselves at international level.

 

[knight11]

its about 3.49 km vertically !!!
New Warfare
Akashdeep Aerostat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
further india has only 2-3 operational aerostats in its arsenal
DRDO working on New ” Nakshatra ” Aerostat | Indian Defence Forum
Advanced indigenous aerial surveillance system to be deployed along Pak border - Times of India

Dude, the test of Aerostat is going on in Agra, ARDE, and I can see them daily.
At first I laughed on ARDE, that they are building a balloon, but later came to know, that it takes years of R&D to build such system, and the Aerostat is so aerodynamically designed, that it apears static, and without any variation of its position facing the winds, and the cable attached to such aerostat are made up of special fibre that takes such stress and load. The ground command station is connected to the aerostat payload through optical fibre, and power cable, and a diesel generator to power up the whole system. The Aerostat have to lower down in 15 days to refill the Helium gas when the pressure of the gas is lower to some point. The complete system could be folded and loaded in trucks and could be deployed quickly in the border areas, in short notice shows its flexibility.

And now the good part is that India has come into the club of only few nation, that has the capability to design and produce such aerostat, and soon we will see them deployed in indo-pak and indo-china border in large number, which will lower down our surveillance cost of the watch tower etc, and increase the surveillance capability manifold.

 

[911]

India 's jugular vein is maharashtra and states below it----. They need just a few strikes by the heavy strike aircraft for the tourist and investment to run out of india---I don't want to declare a full fledged war on south india---just a reasonable amount to get them packing their bags and say bye bye----.

I think you are desprate. You just want change in this region. Something to happen. Isn't it?

 

[knight11]

It takes a convoluted mind to think of attacking civilian cities - once any city is attacked causing considerable civilian casualties then it's fully downhill from then on..

The whole world will sympathise with the attacked and nothing (even the whole UN) can stop the hit side from bombing the **** out of its adversary...All options open and all guns blazing. ..nukes be damned.

Fantasising of killing civilians is all great and hunky dory...provided if the consequences of it wouldn't be so bizarre.

I am sure PA generals aren't as stupid.

Exactly, in the past India during the war, India didn't attack the civilian area, and only concentrated in the military installation and bases, but what mastan khan is thinking to attack the civilian area, to threatenen the industrial and the tourist places, but what he is not thinking is the consequences of what will follow through. Indian airforce with Jaguar, MKI with the cover of MK2 and MIG-29 will not be flying in India airspace doing CAP instead will return the hell lot of amunition with interest with several manifold to pakistani cities.

 

[tested]

Hi,

Pakistan's salvation is in a conventional force---a strike force that can take out the cities around mumbai and beneath----.

Mumbai is the jewle in the crown---a destruction of mumbai would stop india from starting a war---.

That's like saying that Pakistan's salvation lies in destruction of NYC.

You can want anything, but you do not have the resources now - nor will you ever - have the conventional capability to ensure destruction of Mumbai or Bangalore.

Because for every dollar of military investment you make, we make more than $3 of investment. Your countries size(geographically as well as population wise) will always ensure that Pakistan is unable to match India.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well ok ... Mastan has taken a lot of heat ... today so lets cut him some slack

Here are some propositions stated by Mastan

1. Assumption that Pakistan Army , Pakistan Navy and Pakistan Air-force would be out on vacation which is why 3 major cities in Pakistan would be effected

2. Assumption that US ship would be there to support an illegal act against Pakistan when Pakistan is a NATO partner

3. China , would be eating soup while all this is happening


Fact

• A nuclear missile thread cannot be neutralized just delayed
• The blast wave would still knock out infrastructure
  
• The nuclear fall out would lay waste any land and people (land or sea)

This puppy would be fishing for shrimps

Good to have friends near by

• NUCLEAR TIPPED AIRFORCE

I suppose these would be just playing cards and eating penuts

Mobile platforms always have flexibility to fit on any ship / montain / Land / Desert / Underground


Other lovely options, Nuclear /conventional

Or you know what lets just drive few of these around into India

Only thing remaining is a permanent moon base


Due to peaceful negotiations we have

 

[Paksanity]

Hi,

I do not think that any pakistani had noticed that in the recent statements by pakistani officials---the state of pakistan has advertantly admitted that it has lost its first strike capability over indian soil.

The suggestion that we are going to use the nucs on our soil to destroy the incoming enemy force was a tantamount to admission of a failed nuc strike capability across the border.

What that means is that pakistan is now admitting that india has ABM's that will take out its nucs during flight---and the next frightening thing for pakistan is that the long range nuc tipped missiles would be taken out on the pakistani side by indian ABM capabilities.

As the hostilities will grow---the U S navy would also be deploying its Aegis class frigates in the arabian sea closer to the pakistan indian borders----. The sole purpose would be to intercept the pakistani nuc tipped missiles that could fly into india.

They could also intercept any indian nuc tipped missiles flying into pakistan----but due to the geography and geometry----all the pakistan launched missiles could be intercepted---because they would be coming in---but the indian missiles would not be---even though the american missiles try as much---because they would be going away from the launch vehicle---.

View attachment 288123

Just for reference sake---if you look at the map of pakistan and india----an aegis class cruiser off the coast of gujrat can intercept many a missiles coming into india.

The indian ABM's will cover the rest halfway above rajasthan. This is what I have been trying to explain in my last few posts---I did not want to get directly into the tactical issue---but the thing is that the U S is not going to allow pakistan to use its nucs successfully.

The U S is going to be a player in the game---whether pakistan likes it or don't. That is why I have been writing over here---there is no way out for pakistan other than gaining conventional strength.

If the generals are saying that cannot happen---then those generals need to be FIRED and those who can---need to be put incharge.

And again for that reason---I bring back the Yemen issue---. A 15--20 billion dollars cash upfront for the first year would have taken care of most of the strike capabilities of pakistan and 5 billion a year after that would have taken care of the major issues.

It would also had given air force bases to pakistan on the arab land to strike deep into the indian flank---and alongwith another extra 150 k troops to gain strength from at time of crisis---.

And again to thos who have not read my yemen strike force numbers here they are----.

Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.

Pakistan would build a military cantonment at gwadar---a full blooded campaign would be started for new recruits---all newly retd general staff and officers be recalled to active duty.

With the funds----pakistan would purchase at least 100 J10C's or100 SU35's----around a 100 JH7B's or a 100 SU34's----.

For the navy---at least 2 to 4 latest models of 052's and the 054's---between 5000 to 8000 + tonnage range----10 + upgraded F22 frigate

For the army a build up to at least 10 divs of armor and artillery and 5 battalions of LR sams etc----and 5 divs of infantry.

Pakistan's salvation is in a conventional force---a strike force that can take out the cities around mumbai and beneath----.

Mumbai is the jewle in the crown---a destruction of mumbai would stop india from starting a war---.

We already know that karachi and lahore and multan would be destroyed---so we need to destroy what the enemy loves the most---where it would hurt the most.

Basically the time for a nuclear is over for pakistan. Nuclear wars look good to poor nations---nations who are in the recovery mode and see a light at the end of he tunnel---must refrain and find other means to counter---.

Sir, please understand.

1. Pakistan's ability of mass nuclear attack is intact and will remain so even after a mass attack by India.

2. ABM doesn't give an assured defence. It never has to any country, least of it India. Nobody takes chances with an incoming nuke.

3. Tactical nuclear weapons are aimed at adding another layer before going full nuclear. It also blunts the criticism of First User and puts it back on India as being the aggressor.

4. Crying nuclear weapons only happens in fanboy forums like this one. Policy statements from responsible officers rarely mention Pakistan's nuclear weapons. Pakistan maintains a policy of nuclear ambiguity which means it never tells when and under what conditions it will go nuclear. Pakistan's nuclear red lines are unknown except a select few.

5. Contrary to normal perception, conventional strength of Pakistan is enough to hold India at bay for considerable length of time. India will receive a pretty bad bloody nose in conventional war. There is a reason that they took to proxy terrorism. They understand this fact. Another evidence is frantic weapon buying by India. At the moment, they are not good enough to overwhelm Pakistan. They will never be able to match China. Ever.

6. I agree that imbalance exists on conventional front especially on Navy and Air Force sides. We must work to close this gap.

 

[illusion8]

Well ok ... Mastan has taken a lot of heat ... today so lets cut him some slack

Here are some propositions stated by Mastan

1. Assumption that Pakistan Army , Pakistan Navy and Pakistan Air-force would be out on vacation
which is why 3 major cities in Pakistan would be effected

2. Assumption that US ship would be there to support an illegal act against Pakistan when Pakistan is
is a NATO partner

3. China , would be eating soup while all this is happening


Fact

• A nuclear missile thread cannot be neutralized just delayed
• The blast wave would still knock out infrastructure
  
• The nuclear fall out would lay waste any land and people (land or sea)

This puppy would be fishing for shrimps

Good to have friends near by

Why would China fight your battle?..are you fighting theirs?

Since when did Pakistan become a nato member?.

As for the nukes .... pakistanis and their obsession with nukes and nuking everyone is getting hilarious by the day.