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Pakistan Inadvertantly Admits That Its First Strike Capability Is Neutered:--

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Hi,

I do not think that any pakistani had noticed that in the recent statements by pakistani officials---the state of pakistan has advertantly admitted that it has lost its first strike capability over indian soil.

The suggestion that we are going to use the nucs on our soil to destroy the incoming enemy force was a tantamount to admission of a failed nuc strike capability across the border.

What that means is that pakistan is now admitting that india has ABM's that will take out its nucs during flight---and the next frightening thing for pakistan is that the long range nuc tipped missiles would be taken out on the pakistani side by indian ABM capabilities.

As the hostilities will grow---the U S navy would also be deploying its Aegis class frigates in the arabian sea closer to the pakistan indian borders----. The sole purpose would be to intercept the pakistani nuc tipped missiles that could fly into india.

They could also intercept any indian nuc tipped missiles flying into pakistan----but due to the geography and geometry----all the pakistan launched missiles could be intercepted---because they would be coming in---but the indian missiles would not be---even though the american missiles try as much---because they would be going away from the launch vehicle---.

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Just for reference sake---if you look at the map of pakistan and india----an aegis class cruiser off the coast of gujrat can intercept many a missiles coming into india.

The indian ABM's will cover the rest halfway above rajasthan. This is what I have been trying to explain in my last few posts---I did not want to get directly into the tactical issue---but the thing is that the U S is not going to allow pakistan to use its nucs successfully.

The U S is going to be a player in the game---whether pakistan likes it or don't. That is why I have been writing over here---there is no way out for pakistan other than gaining conventional strength.

If the generals are saying that cannot happen---then those generals need to be FIRED and those who can---need to be put incharge.

And again for that reason---I bring back the Yemen issue---. A 15--20 billion dollars cash upfront for the first year would have taken care of most of the strike capabilities of pakistan and 5 billion a year after that would have taken care of the major issues.

It would also had given air force bases to pakistan on the arab land to strike deep into the indian flank---and alongwith another extra 150 k troops to gain strength from at time of crisis---.

And again to thos who have not read my yemen strike force numbers here they are----.

Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.

Pakistan would build a military cantonment at gwadar---a full blooded campaign would be started for new recruits---all newly retd general staff and officers be recalled to active duty.

With the funds----pakistan would purchase at least 100 J10C's or100 SU35's----around a 100 JH7B's or a 100 SU34's----.

For the navy---at least 2 to 4 latest models of 052's and the 054's---between 5000 to 8000 + tonnage range----10 + upgraded F22 frigate

For the army a build up to at least 10 divs of armor and artillery and 5 battalions of LR sams etc----and 5 divs of infantry.

Pakistan's salvation is in a conventional force---a strike force that can take out the cities around mumbai and beneath----.

Mumbai is the jewle in the crown---a destruction of mumbai would stop india from starting a war---.

We already know that karachi and lahore and multan would be destroyed---so we need to destroy what the enemy loves the most---where it would hurt the most.

Basically the time for a nuclear is over for pakistan. Nuclear wars look good to poor nations---nations who are in the recovery mode and see a light at the end of he tunnel---must refrain and find other means to counter---.
what about NASR and RA'AD can they also be intercepted easily ..... and if what you are saying is true then are'nt we already doomed as Pakistan can never match inidan conventional military might as they have both manpower and money beyond us
 
@MastanKhan here goes Again is this your third thread or 4 again
Em just fastinated how every thing ends up being Pakistan buying 100s of twin engine birds
Let me put it simply for you to understand if is say mastan buy a Ferrari , mastan buy a ferrari ( mastan doesn't have the cash ) mastan buy the Ferrari , you cant why because you dont have the funds to do that plain and Simple
As you are making this a too simple computer game that they will deploy one ship or 2 ship and suddenly all the threats will be neutralised thats not the cast in real world
Thats why so many countries are investing in these projects and the success rate is around 10% you are making it a boogyman which its not

As for Yemen and Funds it would have been a blunder Pakistan just cant leave Ksa Neither it can just jump in a religious conflict and would have caused pakistan a enemy right on the border
 
I said special ops team - so the safeguard was assumed -
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Hi,

Since 2001---pak army generals have made very bad decisions---that even a novice general should not make.

You are not getting it---and I understand it very well---. When it is hammered into the pakistanis every other day that our nucs are protecting us---it takes a great amount of courage and will power to listen to some other narrative that goes totally against your belief.

I am not a miracle worker---I cannot get it out your head what has been hammered in for the last 30 years----but for some of you with intellect and integrity and understanding and knowledge about military will know and understand what I am saying.

And others will find it hard to swallow what I am saying---because it is very difficult to admit that the idols that you worshipped are not real gods.

Having multiple warheads is fine---but the problem is with your conventional forces---.

I will guarantee you with my life that when the time comes---pakistan may not push the button to launch---because you guys are making too much money----you people are much richer now than 15 years ago---you have luxuries in life that you never imagined---mad men play nuc games---you are not mad men anymore---.

So---when the war happens---you will be thrashed because you did not get the right weapons in a timely manner---the older guard kept getting rich at your expense and stole the money for the weapons and kept you happy by saying---we will break their jaw---we will break their face----what kind of talk is that from adult nations----.

You people need to do some soul searching and find new strategies----. You kids arguing with me is useless----you are not here to convince me otherwise----you are just trying to convince yourself of your follies.

I have already told you guys what your failures are and what the remedy is---you kids can fight with me as much as you want to---it is not going to change my stand---I have done a lots of research on this issue---from now to a thousand of years back regarding war history.

You kids should know that your conventional strength increase is more worrisome to your enemy than your nucs---and you kids have an example in front of your faces----.

Before 2005---whe you weere ready to get the 72 F16----the enemy was talking to you---almost made peace---it was so far ahead that the paf chief analyzed that there would be no conflict with india and it is a waste of money to buy potent fighter for pakistan---that is what the delay was in placing the order in 2003-04.

And when you lost the money for the 72 fighter aircraft in 2005---the indian tune changed right in front of your faces and you kids are arguing with me.
Sir It is true because you do not know the behave of India with Pakistan.The Indian ministers were treating to Pakistan in their joking with each other.There are lot of difference between those Indian who lived in foreign countries and those who lived in India.Other reason is the result of Qaddafi of Libya.
 
Sir if Indian ABMs capability is so strong then why are they opting for S-400s? Why waste so much money if India already knows Pakistan has lost its first strike capability? If ABM tech is so accurate then why is world still building new ballistic missiles (Even US feels threatened by North Korea's Ballistic Missiles). And as a matter of fact if Pakistan had lost their capability then whats holding India from attacking us? Is it Uncle Sam or what?
 
Sir if Indian ABMs capability is so strong then why are they opting for S-400s? Why waste so much money if India already knows Pakistan has lost its first strike capability? If ABM tech is so accurate then why is world still building new ballistic missiles (Even US feels threatened by North Korea's Ballistic Missiles). And as a matter of fact if Pakistan had lost their capability then whats holding India from attacking us? Is it Uncle Sam or what?


Hi,

You are a very well informed poster---it would do a great good if you focus on the merits of having a stronger weapons systems capability. Thank you.

In a speech there are a lots of things said to get your keen attention---and when your attention is focused---other relative issues are brought up to get you to get at the sequence of things that are happening and the consequences related to those issues---.

As for india's attacks---they have attacked you many a times since 2005---you may not have felt them----but the reverberance has been heard throughout the world.
 
@MastanKhan here goes Again is this your third thread or 4 again
Em just fastinated how every thing ends up being Pakistan buying 100s of twin engine birds
Let me put it simply for you to understand if is say mastan buy a Ferrari , mastan buy a ferrari ( mastan doesn't have the cash ) mastan buy the Ferrari , you cant why because you dont have the funds to do that plain and Simple
As you are making this a too simple computer game that they will deploy one ship or 2 ship and suddenly all the threats will be neutralised thats not the cast in real world
Thats why so many countries are investing in these projects and the success rate is around 10% you are making it a boogyman which its not

As for Yemen and Funds it would have been a blunder Pakistan just cant leave Ksa Neither it can just jump in a religious conflict and would have caused pakistan a enemy right on the border

Hi,

Thank you very much for your indulgence---. You would not know----our threat level was very low till 2005---weapons were coming left and right---ready to buy a 100 aircraft---india was talking the good talk---all reday for peace so much so that the paf delayed to put their order believing that the war with india was not possible.

Then the 2005 earthquake hit---pakistan decided to use the weapons money elsewhere---once the news came out that pakistan has no funds indian attitude changed.

See---you can talk rhetoric---I am giving a living example.

There is only one way to deal with the opponent---and that is conventional strength---we don't need to match them mano a mano---.

At first the nation's military needs to decide the right weapons system---money is going to come from somewhere if the need is felt---didn't we make the nuc weapons by ' eating grass '----smashed the psyche of the western world when those 6 nuclear bombs went off at Chaghi hills----.

Now I want to raise the strength to the next level---like that of Israel's----they are conventinally so strong that they never have to bring out their nucs.

India 's jugular vein is maharashtra and states below it----. They need just a few strikes by the heavy strike aircraft for the tourist and investment to run out of india---I don't want to declare a full fledged war on south india---just a reasonable amount to get them packing their bags and say bye bye----.
 
Oh my God.. What an epic failure of an thread... India's BMD hasnt even deployed yet.. Even with the case no BMD has 100% accuracy. That's y we are going for S400.
in short Mastan saheb is advocating pakistan to send at least 50-100K spoldiers of PA to fight for saudi arbia and get the war booty of 15-25 Billion dollars , free oil for decades to come 6-8 squadrans of latest Mirage 2000s, F-15 & F-16s :)

which i dont think is a bad initiative i wonder why is PA so reluctant on that ?
 
A first strike policy ("proactive", "pre-emptive") is viable only if it can at least eliminate opponent's second strike capability, or assured destruction of all retaliative capabilities.

So before choosing a game plan, ask this question: Can either Pakistan (2.1 megaton) or India (1 megaton) tactically achieve such objective? If yes then there is a possibility for first strike, otherwise NFU seems more appealing.


However one possible form of first strike is when conventional forces are overwhelmed, it's "reactionary" in nature. That could be the rationale behind an ambiguous NFU, or say "conditional" NFU.
 
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I don't know how far nukes can save any country. If india nukes pakistan, how china will get back the returns from their CPEC. If pakistan nukes india how the countries invested in india wil get their returns.

Built your economic muscle, the world will rally behind you to save their investment(ultimately you) from your enemy.
 
Forget interception both Pakistan and India's nukes are mostly for showcase. It takes lot of courage and support to launch nukes. Nukes have threshold before you can even think of it. I do not see how anyone will even come close to threshold.

The only reason I dragged India is to clarify I am thinking India being any different.

Forget launching and interception, only a demented and retarded Gernail would consider using the Nuclear option. Nukes are great show-pieces but of dubious utility. In fact Nukes in this scenario are the best way to commit suicide! And who wants to commit suicide, unless one gets convinced that is the best way to go to heaven.
No wonder it has been said: War is just too serious a business to be left solely to the Generals! :lol:
 
Pakistan would release 50 K troops on the go---and in return it would ask saudi arabia to deploy one sqdrn of F15SA's at jacobabad---it would also ask emirate to deploy a sqdrn of BLK60 a J'abad and 2 sqdrn's of Mirage 2K9's at karachi----these would neuter any indian strike threat.
LOL

how old are you, 12 ?
 
OK, OP and a few Pakistani members on this thread, you destroy say Mumbai and Delhi. But would you live to see (if you are inside Pakistan) what happened to Pakistan?

BTW, why always thinking of destruction? Can't you think anything constructive? Is Complete destruction of Pakistan is worth of Kashmir/annihilating Hindus?
to most of them it is ... i guess :pleasantry:
 
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