Pakistan has 2 Choices: Secularism or Death

[Hyperion]

That's a load of crap.
Turkey was suffering from entrenched interests not allowing the government to modernize. This entrenched interests exist in every country and the countries that could break them ended up prospering and the ones who could not ended up getting conquered. Pakistan need to break the entrenched interests on both the religious and secular ends.

WHAT...???? Professor, you know more than me?

 

[Rusty]

This is height of contradiction..you are agreeing that you have a constitution that discriminates against your minorities(it does not allow them to apply for head of the state, simply because they do not belong to the majority religion) and at same time claim, you provide all rights to you minorities. How are the two even possible??

how are the two related?
explain to me how are equal rights and eligibility for a job related?
They are not!
You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
you don't have the right to any job you want. You must meet the criteria for a job.
That is why in the US it is perfectly constitutional that the President be born on American soil.
And why in Pakistan it is also constitutional that the PM be a Muslim.

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

This is height of contradiction..you are agreeing that you have a constitution that discriminates against your minorities(it does not allow them to apply for head of the state, simply because they do not belong to the majority religion) and at same time claim, you provide all rights to you minorities. How are the two even possible??

You are making it look difficult although it isnt..
Yes, the minorities cannot apply for the post of head of state; and this is similar to the fact that you fill a vacancy of an Electrical Engineer with an Electrical Engineer and not an Accountant.
-- So, the head of an Islamic Republic should be a Muslim.

 

[The SC]

None of your choices, they do not fit the bill!

 

[Rusty]

WHAT...???? Professor, you know more than me?

with liner replies, yes I do.

 

[The SC]

This is height of contradiction..you are agreeing that you have a constitution that discriminates against your minorities(it does not allow them to apply for head of the state, simply because they do not belong to the majority religion) and at same time claim, you provide all rights to you minorities. How are the two even possible??

We want Muslim Indians to hold the highest political, military and economical posts in India, also to be the richest families in India first, than we will let Hindus apply for presidency in Muslim countries. fair enough for secularism?

 

[Hyperion]

with liner replies, yes I do.

And I thought you would follow the big parental advisory on top with a note

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Parental advisory: This post may contain spoilers on how to save Pakistan. It WILL also hurt religious zealots.. If such a case please discontinue reading - you may go back to arab-lands. This post is for Pakistanis only.

Guys, read a bit of Turkish history... the unwritten one.... This has already been done before... At the turn of the 20th century, Turkey was shattered between religious groups, the mullahs had literally divided the country and had sold their allegiances to foreign powers.

One man gathered an army..... and eliminated all the religious dogs.

The Ata-Turk way:
1. Killed ALL... I MEAN ALL of the Islamists. The senior mullahs were sent in numerous, huge cruise ships for performing Hajj and bombed in the middle of Mediterranean - Rest were sent to their beloved god in the middle of sleep, and the remainder hung from lamp-posts! Not a joke!
2. Gathered ALL OF their wives and protesting **tches in the middle of Ulus (Ankara) and ordered the army to convert their burqas to mini skirts with swords... NO JOKES HERE
3. Changed the Arab alphabet in as little as THREE NIGHTS to Latin alphabet. < Not kidding!
4. Burned EVERY BOOK in the country that has arab alphabet in it. < Absolutely true!

And voila we have modern-day Turkiye!

Lesson: Turkey wasn't just built upon wishful thinking.. To what extremes are you willing to go to save Pakistan? Our country suffers from the same virus that was introduced in pre-historic Turkey, they fought it and won, what are we going to do about it?

Whatever you do, just don't be indecisive and apathetic. Religions will come and go, Pakistan will never come back. Take a step back, save the country and then our children may come back and reclaim their religion (provided it has been purged of morons in 50 years time)

I never knew that Turkey went to that extent. Although it would be could if you can provide a link to your facts.

 

[ares]

We want Muslim Indians to hold the highest political,military and economical posts in India, also to be the richest families in India first, than we will let Hindus apply for presidency in Muslim countries. fair enough for secularism?

Well good for wanting what you want.

But thing is we don't care about, what do you want, neither do we care about your Hindus, Sikhs or Christians.

You can treat them crap for all we care..but don't come comparing to us or casting doubts on on our committance to secular ideals, for we will continue to provide equal right to our minorities irrespective of how Pakistanis treat their minorities!!


That is why ,when Pakistani chose to become Islamic republic and opted to be a nation for the people of just one religion. We chose to remain a secular republic be nation for people of all religions.

 

[Hyperion]

I never knew that Turkey went to that extent. Although it would be could if you can provide a link to your facts.

Ask the Turks. Do you think such excesses (acts of mercy for the country as a whole) would be penned down? I have spoken to hundreds upon hundreds of Turks in their 70's/80's/90's..

This was something that intrigued me from the very beginning. What is happening in Pakistan today, I could see it coming in the 90's and that's why I left!

And funny enough, I can see what is coming in the next two decades.... It's not pretty

 

[The SC]

Parental advisory: This post may contain spoilers on how to save Pakistan. It WILL also hurt religious zealots.. If such a case please discontinue reading - you may go back to arab-lands. This post is for Pakistanis only.

Guys, read a bit of Turkish history... the unwritten one.... This has already been done before... At the turn of the 20th century, Turkey was shattered between religious groups, the mullahs had literally divided the country and had sold their allegiances to foreign powers.

One man gathered an army..... and eliminated all the religious dogs.

<!-------- THIS IS UNCENSORED HISTORY SO DON'T BITE ME --------->

The Ata-Turk way:
1. Killed ALL... I MEAN ALL of the Islamists. The senior mullahs were sent in numerous, huge cruise ships for performing Hajj and bombed in the middle of Mediterranean - Rest were sent to their beloved god in the middle of sleep, and the remainder hung from lamp-posts! Not a joke!
2. Gathered ALL OF their wives and protesting **tches in the middle of Ulus (Ankara) and ordered the army to convert their burqas to mini skirts with swords... NO JOKES HERE
3. Changed the Arab alphabet in as little as THREE NIGHTS to Latin alphabet. < Not kidding!
4. Burned EVERY BOOK in the country that has arab alphabet in it. < Absolutely true!

And voila we have modern-day Turkiye!

<!-------- THIS IS UNCENSORED HISTORY SO DON'T BITE ME --------->

Lesson: Turkey wasn't just built upon wishful thinking.. To what extremes are you willing to go to save Pakistan? Our country suffers from the same virus that was introduced in pre-historic Turkey, they fought it and won, what are we going to do about it?

Whatever you do, just don't be indecisive and apathetic. Religions will come and go, Pakistan will never come back. Take a step back, save the country and then our children may come back and reclaim their religion (provided it has been purged of morons in 50 years time)

Turkey's problems were with the European allies in WW1 and WW2, since it was part of the "Axe" meaning on Germany's side.
Before that it had a problem with the Orthodox church from Greece and Russia.
These are the facts behind Ataturk post Ottoman reforms, and it had nothing to do with Islam, those reforms were DICTATED by the Allies who won the war in Europe, and last but not the least ,Turkey did good only in the last 15 years or so, after the Islamists who started governing it saw the illusion of the secularists who wanted to join the EU with no avail, even if they turned homosexuals, they were still looked at as Muslims and as such they couldn't be accepted in Christian Europe.

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Well good for wanting what you want.

But thing is we don't care about, what do you want, neither do we care about your Hindus, Sikhs or Christians.

You can treat them crap for all we care..but don't come comparing to us or casting doubts on on our committance to secular ideals, for we will continue to provide equal right to our minorities irrespective of how Pakistanis treat their minorities!!


That is why ,when Pakistani chose to become Islamic republic and opted to be a nation for the people of just one religion. We chose to remain a secular republic be nation for people of all religions.

Well, the Quran says about this:
"O disbelievers
I do not worship that which you worship
Nor will you worship that which I worship
And I will not worship that which you are worshipping
Nor will you worship that which I worship
To you be your religion ; to me MY RELIGION.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

...
Having created this Islamic State, the next question that logically follows is this: What is Islam? Or more to the point: Who is a Muslim? For whom was this state created and for whom does it exist when it officially calls itself an Islamic Republic? After all, it makes no sense to create an "Islamic" State without have a lucid legal definition of the terms "Islam" and "Muslim".

Clearly, we cannot accept that anyone who just says he is a Muslim is a Muslim. Otherwise misguided idol-worshippers with multiple gods could keeping on worshipping rats, monkeys, snakes & cows and still say that they are Muslim----but clearly just saying so would not make that true.

So it becomes a question of setting down a set of rules which define exactly who is a Muslim. Let us say we go for something simple, universal and inclusive: "A Muslim is one who observes the Five Pillars of Islam".
...
So that 5-pillar definition won't work. And our own basic Two-Nation Theory proves that reconciliation or compromise won't work either. So let us say we solve this problem also by amending the constitution again to declare the Shia as non-Muslim. We then strip them of their citizenship and expel all of them from Pakistan as well. All exiled. All gone.
...

You really don't know anything about Islam do you? Pakistan is an Islamic state not because of some 5 or 6 or 7 pillars. Pakistan is an Islamic state, unlike KsA, Syria, Iran and whoever you named in that long post, because it accepts that 'sovereignty belongs top God alone'. That's more revolutionary than it sounds in boring beaureaucratic language. It implies that no president, prime/chief/ whatever-else minister, no tribal chief and nobody else who dispenses command on the people of Pakistan and the land of Pakistan, owns one bit of what they govern. God is King. On paper!


About your 5 pillar thing. 1 - creed not actions make you Muslim, and creed is in 6 things. Look up 3aqeedah. 2 - pillar is not the best translation, maybe 'rope or stick to hold the tent up'.

 

[ares]

how are the two related?
explain to me how are equal rights and eligibility for a job related?
They are not!
You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
you don't have the right to any job you want. You must meet the criteria for a job.
That is why in the US it is perfectly constitutional that the President be born on American soil.
And why in Pakistan it is also constitutional that the PM be a Muslim.

I do not know, how much you know about democracy but isn't it obvious?

When you born in a country, you spend entire life in it, work towards its development..pay your taxes..raise your children there..and you can not apply for certain jobs just because the religion you follow is not a majority religion...it like people of that country do not trust you and people of your religion with certains jobs ..why?..because you have different religion.

To be able apply for being of head of the state is a birth right in a democracy.

 

[Hyperion]

Turkey's problems were with the European allies in WW1 and WW2, since it was part of the "Axe" meaning on Germany's side.
Before that it had a problem with the Orthodox church from Greece and Russia.
These are the facts behind Ataturk post Ottoman reforms, and it had nothing to do with Islam, those reforms were DICTATED by the Allies who won the war in Europe, and last but not the least ,Turkey did good only in the last 15 years or so, after the Islamists who started governing it saw the illusion of the secularists who wanted to join the EU with no avail, even if they turned homosexuals, they were still looked at as Muslims and as such they couldn't be accepted in Christian Europe.

Nops... Turkey was infiltrated and divided on the basis of religion from day one. It wasn't till they promoted nationalism above religion that they could start to reclaim what they had lost.... Don't read Wiki too much..... They were stabbed in the back by none other than god's favorite from the arid lands....