Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Imran Khan]

I know it
but it seems like paf doesnt cares or it will buy alot of spare parts

as i think PAF should move on from this F-16 love now world is moving ahead F-16 is not last fighter jet on earth.

PAF always have low number best tech fighters we are losing it since last 10 years we got only 18 falcons its enough ?.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

as i think PAF should move on from this F-16 love now world is moving ahead F-16 is not last fighter jet on earth.

PAF always have low number best tech fighters we are losing it since last 10 years we got only 18 falcons its enough ?.

U R right
now tell this to PAF

 

[araz]

as i think PAF should move on from this F-16 love now world is moving ahead F-16 is not last fighter jet on earth.

PAF always have low number best tech fighters we are losing it since last 10 years we got only 18 falcons its enough ?.

So what do you recommend and from where are you going to get the bang for the buxk that the US products provide. And by the way where is the money for the infrastructure going to come from. Do you think EUor russian stuff will be cheap and without strings. The chinese ae not giving any handouts. So please tell me your strategic vision Sir Imran.
Araz

 

[Argus Panoptes]

So what do you recommend and from where are you going to get the bang for the buxk that the US products provide. And by the way where is the money for the infrastructure going to come from. Do you think EUor russian stuff will be cheap and without strings. The chinese ae not giving any handouts. So please tell me your strategic vision Sir Imran.
Araz

"Bang for the Buck" means good Value, which is Quality/Cost ratio. US military products do not generally provide good value, since their acquisition and maintenance costs are usually much higher than most other comparable systems on offer. They do provide good performance too, but at a high cost.

F-16 have a big Bang. But the "bang for the buck" value is better for the JF-17 and with similar Chinese products.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

the 2 congressional approvals the ACM is hinting at are;

1. approval by Bush admn to release 28 F-16A/B to PK - 14 delivered, 14 pending.....
2. approval by Bush admn to sell 36 F-16C/D to PK - 18 delivered, option for 18 not utilized at that time. what is the status of this option for 18 additional is open to debate.

finally will the Obama admn honour these committments....

Why have they delivered the other 14 F-16s yet?

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Why have they delivered the other 14 F-16s yet?

paid for them in early 90s then us imposed arm ebergo on us so they gave them to their navy

 

[araz]

"Bang for the Buck" means good Value, which is Quality/Cost ratio. US military products do not generally provide good value, since their acquisition and maintenance costs are usually much higher than most other comparable systems on offer. They do provide good performance too, but at a high cost.

F-16 have a big Bang. But the "bang for the buck" value is better for the JF-17 and with similar Chinese products.

Iwould disagree with you. Lots of PAF People would disagree with you.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Iwould disagree with you. Lots of PAF People would disagree with you.

I would respect the difference of opinion, but Value is higher for JF-17. Performance and Quality is better for F-16. US stuff is great but costly. Chinese stuff is good or okay and much cheaper.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

paid for them in early 90s then us imposed arm ebergo on us so they gave them to their navy

You mean Bush senior, right? Well, I see what you mean, but the US should have delivered those F-16s when Pakistan announced that it will cooperate with the International community on the war on terror. This is a pure use of double standards.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

You mean Bush senior, right? Well, I see what you mean, but the US should have delivered those F-16s when Pakistan announced that it will cooperate with the International community on the war on terror. This is a pure use of double standards.

actually i think the deal was made during reagan tenure but as the soviets left afg. american again went nuts on nuclear issue

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

actually i think the deal was made during reagan tenure but as the soviets left afg. american again went nuts on nuclear issue

Pakistan and KSA trolled the West till we to the bomb, there was nothing much they could have done to stop us

 

[Viper0011.]

Over a dozen. @Najam Khan

Does that mean the program would still end by 2014? If not, how much of a delay are we talking?

 

[araz]

I would respect the difference of opinion, but Value is higher for JF-17. Performance and Quality is better for F-16. US stuff is great but costly. Chinese stuff is good or okay and much cheaper.

When you are looking to develop your force to counteract your adversary, you go through a decision loop based on the width of your pocket or your influence. The key example of the latter is Israel . we may have had some clout in the 80s but not any more. So we are left in the former group. Now what you want to have is a good mix of quality and quantity within yur budget. If you read my original response to imrans post from which we have digressed a long way you will realize that the post opns afew points of discussion. No one deniesthat the JFT is a little gem which has had input from PAF to cater to their needs. Being a small fighter its running costs might be lower but planes are not just about running costs. There is also the cost of setting up infra structure depot level maintenance m anpower training and time evolved in doing that .Then there are costs associated with learning about the strengths and weaknesses of the new machine and devising strategies to fight with it so that you try your best to utilize it in the sphere of its strength. If yoy now look at my post again you will see the logic behind it. You will need a newer platform to replace the 16s and if you add the costs together it will not only cost you more but set you back at least 2-3 yrs from the time you get the plane to the time you can rock n roll in it. Look at the equation again and you will see why the 16s still make sense for the PAF.I would love to mpve on to bigger and better but does your pocket allow you to do so? Therein lies the dilemma which PAF faces. FC20 Ais still not inducted in PLAAF. DO YOU REALLY WANT TO TAKE ON A BABY WITH TEETHING PROBLEMS OR TAKE ON A BIGGER BOY WHO IS ESTBLISHED AND PASSED THE POTTY TRAINING STAGE.
ARAZ

 

[TOPGUN]

I Agree with Araz 100% one must think and live in reality not fantasy simply ... one must balance out goods with what it can handle and get not many options are open and even they become where are the funds? so sticking with additional vipers is the way to go , getting the 14 vipers back which we paid for and then mlu them or get 18 more blk 52's or both options.

 

[ssethii]

Pakistan and KSA trolled the West till we to the bomb, there was nothing much they could have done to stop us

care to explain the bold part?