Pakistan F-16 Discussions 2

[Areesh]

Going through this thread i am just wondering why is pakistan buying F-16 block 52 coz (until they r upgraded to block 60) they cant handle Su-30 MKI their most likely adversary.And by the time they will be upgraded to block 60 india will have PAK FGFA which is a generation ahead.
So my question is why not save the hard earned money and buy something technically advanced from China, in future(J XX)?

You aren't getting PAK FA at least in the next decade. May be after 2020.

 

[owcc]

that may be true but yur definitely not going to be offered f22 in the decade either.

 

[Areesh]

that may be true but yur definitely not going to be offered f22 in the decade either.

We don't need one either.

 

[Dr sim]

Correct me if i m mistaken but from what I know Su-30 MKI is considered in the same league as rafale, typhoon etc and also it outdid F-15 of USA which is far more advanced than any F-16 out there right now. Just one of the many facts, I would like to mention here is the BVR capability of Su-30MKI which is better than F-16.

 

[Mani2020]

Correct me if i m mistaken but from what I know Su-30 MKI is considered in the same league as rafale, typhoon etc and also it outdid F-15 of USA which is far more advanced than any F-16 out there right now. Just one of the many facts, I would like to mention here is the BVR capability of Su-30MKI which is better than F-16.

f-15 is basically for strike missions , And in A2A role its less capable than the f-16 block 50/52 as previously explained by blain2.You should go through his posts on previous page.It would be a nice read


Su-30Mki has a powerful radar which give it a bit of edge but it should be compensated by the AWACS , and our F-16 c/d will carry Aim-120C5 missile which is itself a very good missile with a range of 120km

And above all f-16 is a tested and tried platform

 

[Dr sim]

hi there. I find it a bit naive when you say that Rafale/Typhoon do not have a bright future. First of all , only two countries are currently capable enuf to develop a true 5 th generation fighter jet i.e the USA and Russia. So I dont agree with you when u say that the market will be flooded with 5th generation fighter jets. Also F-35 comes at a hefty price as compared to Rafale/typhoon. I cannot think of many developing countries which can afford it.ToT is another issue. they wont do ToT to even Britain. In 1990 when India was going through an economic crises we could not buy Sukhois or anything evn though they were available
So the point I m trying to make is that idealistically you are right in saying that Rafale etc should have arrived a decade earlier but reality is far different. There are lot of constraints involved so you cannot just compare aircrafts on basis of their capabilities without reflecting on other issues simultaneously. Thanks

 

[Manticore]

The Rafale and Typhoon offer already the same things and even more in their planned basic configurations and they have a lot of growth potential.
Sensor fusion is a technology already realized for Rafale and Typhoon and it will be further enhanced in the future. I wouldn't bet on the F-35 being much superior in that direction. The primary advantage of the F-35 will be its stealth capabilities. But the aircraft will also offer a level of technology in its basic configuration which will be only matched in the evolved versions of Rafale or Typhoon.

detection
F-16C (RCS = 1.2 m2): 260 ~ 310 km
JAS39 (RCS = 0.5 m2): 210 ~ 250 km
Rafale (RCS = 0.1~0.2 m2): 140 ~ 200 km
EF2K (RCS = 0.05~0.1 m2): 120 ~ 170 km

[taken from another international forum]

 

[sancho]

I was being generous when I said that they have equal BVR capabilities. The fact is as above. The latest that Typhoons have is AIM-120B integration. The F-16s are already flying with AIM-120C5s which provide greater range and better terminal guidance.

Currently at least, the Typhoon does not even use the same BVR AAMs as those available to blks 50/60 F-16s. Secondly, APG-68 has a pretty decent range that is overlooked by folks. The range of the radars in both cases exceeds the theoretical range of the BVR AAMs in question. So this is a moot point.

Yes but these Italian aircraft were older blk-15s with less powerful engines and no JHMCS and HOBS AAMs like the AIM-9x. Lack of energy and less TWR is helped by being able to take a shot against an adversary with higher thrust and maneuverability from various angles. The Italians did not have that, however JHMCS would afford this capability.

Yes you are too generous towards the F16 and its capabilies!

The F16 is not and never was meant to be an air superiority fighter, similar to F15, EF, or Flankers and that's why it lacks in many fields compared to them in this role. That's why even the air forces of America, Israel, S.Korea, or Singapore, that has latest versions of the F 16, operates more capable F15s in the air superiority role, or why PLAAF operates numbers of J11 and Su 30s, above the J10s.

The F16s is a good fighter in the medium class, but should not be overestimated. Yes in WVR, with its smaller size and manouverability it will have some chances (like you said possibly in lower altitudes), but that doesn't makes it equal in A2A, because the these air superiority fighters still have more advantages like radar range, t/w ratios, speed, more capable EWS, more weapons, or in case of EF also lower RCSs and manouverability. That's the same reason why the US still developed a bigger F22 twin engine air superiority fighter and a F16 successor (F35) only in addition to it.


Now to your points, AIM 120 C5 is available for the EF since the trance 2 block 5 upgrade and the Royal Air Force is using these missiles for their EFs and Tornados:

Eurofighter Typhoon to be Showcased at Aero India 2007

Dated 26/1/2007

According to Eurofighter GmbH CEO, Aloysius Rauen...

...“We have achieved certification for unlimited air-to-air carefree handling with the available air-to-air missiles AMRAAM including the latest C5 version in service with the Royal Air Force, ASRAAM, IRIS-T, and the proven AIM-9L plus external fuel tanks. We continue by delivering the air-to surface capability demanded by the customer.

Eurofighter Typhoon to be Showcased at Aero India 2007 | India Defence

The only reason why the other customers keeps older versions of AIM120 is, because they wait for the Meteor missile!


Next point is the radar range, what is a decent range for APG 68 in your opinion?
Is it comparable to the estimated 160 - 185 Km range for targets of a RCS between 3 and 5m2, of EFs actual Captor M radar? Detection of bigger aircrafts are expected at ranges up to 370Km, it tracks 20 targets at a time and engages 6 of them, which brings it even close to Bars ranges and capabilities!

And as umair86 mentioned, the F16 Block 15 are generally counted to the most manouverable F16 versions. The later has more thrust, but also clearly more weight, which makes it very unlikely to compete against latest delta cancard designs, which was reported in the past too. In the fighter competition in Singapore for example EF was fielded against F16 B52s and according to some sources won 3:0. In an exercise before Red Flag, the Rafale F2 was fielded (in WVR combats) against US F16s (also older versions) and the Rafale won 3:1. So just because of some thrust impovements, the newer F16s won't have a chance against the EF, which puts all the hope at JHMCS + AIM 9X. But as I said before, these air superiority fighters are also geared with latest avionics and EW Systems, which means even that combo won't give the F16 a clear advantage.


Once again in A2A compared to latest F16 blocks, the EF offers:

- high t/w ratio
- more manouverable design
- lower RCS
- better radar
- latest EWS and avionics
- same missiles

So I don't see where the latest F16 (especially without AESA), will be comparable to it in A2A.

 

[Chogy]

Radar detection range is definitely overrated, IMO. Far more important than range is the ability to sort, to break out and target individual entities within a gaggle, and that relies more on beamwidth (usually, but not always, a function of antenna diameter), than it does on raw emitted power.

It has always been the great challenge of a modern flight of fighter aircraft to target separate bandits, and not simply have everyone glom on to the most obvious target, which absorbs 8 AIM-120's while the remainder are unscathed. I believe the modern F-16 will do this with efficiency.

Combined with the AIM-120 and the AIM-9M, it is a package that can do it all, for many years to come. The missile is fully as important as the platform, and both of these are killers, with the AIM-9 series being absolutely lethal with a very high Pk.

 

[Chogy]

I meant to add, modern datalinking technology makes the sort easier, but I do not know if the PAF birds have any variety of this capability. Maybe someone knows.

Regardless, the best datalinking methodology in the world is only as good as the individual radars' ability to break out formations.

 

[M8R]

Chogy, Pakistan Air Force operates Erieye which supports Datalinking based on Link-16 Platform.Pakistan new F-16's are equipped with Link-16 while older F-16's will be equipped with them as they're going through MLU now.

 

[fatman17]

AMERICAS, THE
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2010


Jane's Defence Weekly


Pakistan receives its first F-16C/D Block 52 fighters

Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent - Jacobabad, southern Pakistan

US and Pakistani officials commemorated the delivery of the first three of a batch of 18 F-16C/D Block 52 fighter aircraft to Pakistan at a remote Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base on 27 June.

During the induction ceremony at Shehbaz Air Base near Jacobabad, US Air Force (USAF) Chief of Staff General Norton Schwartz announced the "US intent to stand by Pakistan over the long term as an important ally and friend".

In a deal worth USD1.4 billion, the latest batch of F-16s are the first new fighters to be sold to Pakistan since a batch of 40 new F-16A/B models were sold to the country in the early 1980s.

The delivery comes against the backdrop of Pakistan's emergence as the main US ally against the occupation of Afghanistan by the former Soviet Union.

From 1990 the sale of hardware to Pakistan was suspended as part of US sanctions against the country because of its effort to build a nuclear bomb, which culminated with the country's first nuclear tests in 1998. The relationship resumed after the 2001 terrorist attacks on New York prompted Pakistan to join the US-led alliance against terror.

The US has since given older F-16A/B to Pakistan declared as Excess Defence Articles by the USAF. According to Pakistani officials, the PAF currently flies at least 45 of the older platforms and is presently lobbying the US to deliver between 14 to 18 more of the same variant, which along with the existing F-16A/Bs will undergo midlife upgrades.

At the 27 June ceremony Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, Pakistan's Air Force Chief of Staff, said: "This technology will not only eliminate our existing limitations [during] night operations, but [will] also enable the PAF to meet its mission more effectively. The mission of the PAF is to maintain peace with honour in the region." He added: "Should this primary task fail we will use all assets and all resources at our disposal, including these aircraft, to defend our country against any internal or external threat."

Western defence analysts speaking to Jane's in Islamabad said that while the new F-16s will help overcome unease among Pakistan's senior generals over ties to the US, the relationship still suffers from a lack of trust, which has forced Pakistan since the 1990 US sanctions to draw closer to China.

"Pakistan's foremost fighter development with China to co-produce the JF-17 and a deal in the pipeline to buy two squadrons of Chinese J-10 [FC-20] fighter aircraft all point towards the trust gap with the US and increasing reliance on China," one Western defence analyst told Jane's .

 

[fatman17]

AMERICAS, THE
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2010


Jane's Defence Weekly


Pakistan receives its first F-16C/D Block 52 fighters

Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent - Jacobabad, southern Pakistan

US and Pakistani officials commemorated the delivery of the first three of a batch of 18 F-16C/D Block 52 fighter aircraft to Pakistan at a remote Pakistan Air Force (PAF) base on 27 June.

During the induction ceremony at Shehbaz Air Base near Jacobabad, US Air Force (USAF) Chief of Staff General Norton Schwartz announced the "US intent to stand by Pakistan over the long term as an important ally and friend".

In a deal worth USD1.4 billion, the latest batch of F-16s are the first new fighters to be sold to Pakistan since a batch of 40 new F-16A/B models were sold to the country in the early 1980s.

The delivery comes against the backdrop of Pakistan's emergence as the main US ally against the occupation of Afghanistan by the former Soviet Union.

From 1990 the sale of hardware to Pakistan was suspended as part of US sanctions against the country because of its effort to build a nuclear bomb, which culminated with the country's first nuclear tests in 1998. The relationship resumed after the 2001 terrorist attacks on New York prompted Pakistan to join the US-led alliance against terror.

The US has since given older F-16A/B to Pakistan declared as Excess Defence Articles by the USAF. According to Pakistani officials, the PAF currently flies at least 45 of the older platforms and is presently lobbying the US to deliver between 14 to 18 more of the same variant, which along with the existing F-16A/Bs will undergo midlife upgrades.

At the 27 June ceremony Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, Pakistan's Air Force Chief of Staff, said: "This technology will not only eliminate our existing limitations [during] night operations, but [will] also enable the PAF to meet its mission more effectively. The mission of the PAF is to maintain peace with honour in the region." He added: "Should this primary task fail we will use all assets and all resources at our disposal, including these aircraft, to defend our country against any internal or external threat."

Western defence analysts speaking to Jane's in Islamabad said that while the new F-16s will help overcome unease among Pakistan's senior generals over ties to the US, the relationship still suffers from a lack of trust, which has forced Pakistan since the 1990 US sanctions to draw closer to China.

"Pakistan's foremost fighter development with China to co-produce the JF-17 and a deal in the pipeline to buy two squadrons of Chinese J-10 [FC-20] fighter aircraft all point towards the trust gap with the US and increasing reliance on China," one Western defence analyst told Jane's .

 

[fatman17]

ASIA PACIFIC
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2010


Jane's Defence Weekly


Pakistan calls on US to speed up UAV, F-16 provision

Jon Grevatt Jane's Asia-Pacific Industry Reporter

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari has urged the United States to accelerate the proposed provision to Islamabad of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and mid-life upgrade (MLU) kits for its F-16 fighter aircraft.

A statement issued by the Pakistani government said Zardari told US Air Force Chief of Staff General Norton A Schwartz during a meeting on 28 June that the equipment was necessary for Pakistan to become more independent in efforts against insurgents.

Gen Schwartz was in Pakistan to hand over the first three F-16C/D Block 52 fighters: more capable versions of the Fighting Falcon that can execute night-time and precision-strike missions. A total of 18 aircraft are on order.

The government statement said: "President [Zardari] thanked the US government for the timely delivery of F-16 aircraft. ... The president [also] urged for mid-life upgrading of our F-16s and said that defence collaboration between the two countries must remain strong.

"The president urged the US administration for early transfer of drone technology to Pakistan for its effective use by our own security forces to curb militancy and for its wider public acceptability."

Jane's reported in March 2010 that the US Department of Defense (DoD) is exploring options for supplying Pakistan with 12 RQ-7 Shadow UAVs so that the Pakistani military can have its own intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance assets. It is expected that the UAVs will arrive in Pakistan during the next year.

The MLU kits for the Pakistan Air Force's (PAF's) F-16s are anticipated to be delivered sooner. In May the US Air Force awarded a USD325 million contract to Lockheed Martin to provide 55 kits for PAF F-16 fighter aircraft: 45 MLU kits will be for the PAF's F-16A/B Block 15 aircraft with the remainder for its F-16C/D Block 52 aircraft.

The F-16 MLU deal is financed through the US Foreign Military Sales programme, under which Pakistan receives around USD300 million per year.

The UAV procurement, which is estimated to cost around USD150 million, will be funded through the Pakistan Counterinsurgency Capability Fund: an aid package established in 2009 to provide USD2.8 billion to Pakistan over five years in an effort to build a counter-insurgency capability.

 

[MenOfHonor]

Congress technically has 30 days to veto the $5.1bn arms deal with Islamabad but it has never exercised that power on a major arms sale yet.

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of:

Item 1: 36 New F-16 Block 50/52s - $3 billion

The package for Pakistan's new F-16s also includes:

* 36 F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft with either the F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPEs) and APG-68(V)9 radars;
* 7 spare F100-PW-229 IPE or F110-GE-129 IPE engines;
* 7 spare APG-68(V)9 radar sets;
* 36 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS);
* 36 AN/ARC-238 SINCGARS radios with HAVE QUICK I/II;
* 36 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs) that fit along the aircraft's sides to give them extra range;
* 36 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals; DID has covered the tactical uses of MIDS-LVT Link 16 systems;
* 36 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/Inertial Navigation Systems;
* 36 APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems;
* 36 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites without Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or AN/ALQ-184 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-131 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-187 Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suites without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-178 Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suites without DRFM;
* 1 Unit Level Trainer;


Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability.

The principal contractors will be:

* Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, Fort Worth, TX;
* Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control, Dallas, TX;
* BAE Advanced Systems Greenlawn, NY;
* Boeing Corporation Seattle, WA;
* Boeing Integrated Defense Systems: St Louis, MO; Long Beach, CA; San Diego, CA;
* Raytheon Company: Lexington, MA; Goleta, CA;
* Raytheon Missile Systems in Tucson, AZ;
* Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX;
* Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD;
* United Technology Company subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT; or
* General Electric Aircraft Engines in Cincinnati, OH. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support and program management of the aircraft.


Item 2: Weapons for F-16C/D Block 50/52 Aircraft - $650 Million

# The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of:500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);
# 12 AMRAAM training missiles
# these have seeker warheads, but lack engines;
# 200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder Short-Range Air-Air Missiles; they are the version before the fifth-generation AIM-9X;
# 240 LAU-129/A Launchers
# these support AMRAAM or Sidewinder missiles;
# 500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits;
# 1600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs;
# 800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs;
# 700 BLU-109 2000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse; and,
# Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares, and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications, and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability will also be provided.

The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $650 million.

The principal contractors will be:

* BAE Advanced Systems in Greenlawn, NY;
* Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX;
* Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX;
* Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX; and,
* Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD. There are no known offset agreements in connection with this proposed sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will require multiple trips to Pakistan involving U.S. Government and contractor representatives for technical review/support, program management, and modification of the aircraft.


Item 3: F-16A/B Mid-Life Update Modification Kits - $1.3 billion

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 60 F-16A/B Mid-Life Update (MLU) modification and Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits consisting of:

* APG-68(V)9 with Synthetic Aperture Radar or the APG-66(V)2 radar;
* Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS);
* AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems;
* AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems;
* Have Quick I/II Radios;
* Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT);
* SNIPER (formerly known as AN/AAQ-33 PANTERA) targeting pod capability;
* Reconnaissance pod capability;
* Advanced Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Units (for training);


MDE included in the MLU modification and structural upgrade kits;

* 21 ALQ-131 Block II Electronic Countermeasures Pods without the Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or ALQ-184 Electronic Countermeasures Pods without DRFM;
* 60 ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management Systems;
* 1 Unit Level Trainer;
* 10 APG-68(V)9 spare radar sets.


Also included are radars, modems, receivers, installation, avionics, spare and repair parts, support equipment, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, technical assistance, publications and technical documentation, system drawings, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, and other related logistics elements necessary for full program support.

The estimated cost is $1.3 billion.

According to the DSCA, Pakistan intends to purchase the MLU Program equipment "to enhance survivability, communications connectivity, and extend the useful life of its F-16A/B fighter aircraft. The modifications and upgrades in this proposed sale will permit Pakistan's F-16A/B squadron to operate safely and enhance Pakistan's conventional deterrent capability. Pakistan's air fleet can readily use these updates to enhance and extend the life of its aircraft."

The principal contractors will be:

* BAE Advanced Systems in Greenlawn, NY;
* Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX;
* Lockheed Martin Missile and Fire Control in Dallas, TX;
* Northrop-Grumman Electro-Optical Systems in Garland, TX; and,
* Northrop-Grumman Electronic Systems in Baltimore, MD.



Item 4: F-16A/B Engine Modifications & UP/STAR - $151 Million

The third contract involves Engine Modifications and Falcon UP/STAR Structural Upgrades as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $151 million.

More specifically, the Government of Pakistan has requested engine improvements and structural modifications to its F-16 fleet, which includes a possible sale of:

* 14 F100-PW-220E engines;
* 14 Falcon UP/STAR F-16 structural upgrade kits;
* De-modification and preparation of 26 aircraft;
* Support equipment;
* Software development/integration;
* Modification kits;
* Spares, and repair parts;
* Flight test instrumentation;
* Publications and technical documentation;
* Personnel training and training equipment;
* U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to support the program.


The principal contractors will be:

* Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company in Fort Worth, TX; and,
* United Technology Company subsidiary Pratt & Whitney in East Hartford, CT.



Potential Controversies

The DSCA has said that "Release of this system would not significantly reduce India's quantitative or qualitative military advantage". India disagrees and military experts in Delhi will likely note that the same equipment (GPS, targeting pods, bunker-busters) that could potentially find uses against al-Qaeda terrorists in Pakistan's "lawless frontier" could also be used in precision strikes on India's military facilities in the event of war.

The DSCA counters that release of the F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft to Pakistan "will neither affect the regional balance of power nor introduce a new technology as this level of capability or higher already exists in other countries in the region". India does operate more advanced SU-30MKI aircraft with R-77 "AMRAAMski" missiles, advanced avionics, et. al.; these are superior in range, armament, and maneuverability to Pakistan's F-16s and will remain so. Meanwhile, India's $7-10 billion MRCA competition is certain to introduce 125-200 aircraft that are certain to be more advanced than the F-16 Block 50/52.

The U.S. DSCA adds in its submission to Congress that "The modification of the engines and Falcon UP/STAR structural updates will provide capable F-16s that can be used for close air support in ongoing operations contributing to the GWOT." The DSCA also cites the June 2004 designation of Pakistan as a Major Non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization Ally in its submission. The British commander of NATO's ISAF force in Southern Afghanistan sees Pakistan's role in a rather different light, however; he recently noted that al-Qaeda in Afghanistan is still run out of Pakistan (specifically Quetta), with Pakistani knowledge and even support from Islamist elements in its security apparatus. Ah, the dynamics of counter-insurgency in tribal societies. Pakistan angrily denies this, of course.

India's objections to this sale have been muted thus far, and phrased carefully to emphasize their effect on India-Pakistan ties rather than India-U.S. ties. Meanwhile, President Bush's personal diplomacy approach has fostered a strong relationship with Gen. Musharraf that is inclined to view such requests favourably as part of the U.S.A.'s 3-corner balancing act in the region. Barring unusual circumstances, therefore, it's reasonable to expect this sale to go through with little more than a concerned speech or two in Congress.

Courtesy of Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA)

if they are spending more then 6 billion on f16 they are stupid they could have bought large quantity of saab gripian for that price with tot