Pakistan Could Have Technical Edge on Indian Air Force Despite Rafale Jet Deployment: IAF Veteran

[The Eagle]

New Delhi (Sputnik): On Friday, Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief RKS Bhadauria said the 36 Rafale jets were not the whole solution to the IAF's needs. India signed a $7.8 billion contract with French Dassault Aviation to buy the aircraft in 2019.

Sitting beside Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, Air Force Chief Rakesh Kumar Bhadauria issued a strong warning to the political leadership of India, claiming that the Rafale fighter jet is insufficient to meet the country's defence needs.

IAF veteran Vijainder K Thakur told Sputnik that Rafale is definitely the best aircraft in the IAF's inventory now. However, a determined adversary like the Pakistan Air Force could turn the tables on the IAF by deploying longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an updated version of the JF-17 jet.

“The technical advantage gained by the IAF through the acquisition of the Rafale would be transient because it would be based largely on the weapon systems and sensors of the Rafale,” Thakur said.
The IAF's excessive focus on platforms rather than sensors and weapon systems was evident during the Kargil conflict with Pakistan two decades ago. “The IAF fulfilled the expectations only after it made emergency purchases of Laser-Guided Bombs and targeting pods,” Thakur said.

Powered Up JF-17
The Pakistan Air Force’s single engine multirole fighter, the JF-17 manufactured by the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, is due for a major upgrade, similar to the advanced technologies seen on the J-20 stealth fighter, the Chinese newspaper Global Times reported earlier this year.

It is confirmed by the Chinese outlet that the upgraded JF-17 fighter jet will have “an infrared search and track system and a radar cross section reducing ‘pseudo-stealthy’ airframe”.

The JF-17 fighter jet has been also equipping with PL-15 Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missile that has posed serious concern among the US Air Force due to the long range of its missiles.

Herbert J. Carlisle, the then head of the US Air Force’s combat command, was quoted by Flight Global as saying that outmatching the Chinese PL-15 air-to-air missile in particular is an “exceedingly high priority”.
“The PL-15 and the range of that missile, we’ve got to be able to out-stick that missile,” US Air Force’s Command chief had said in 2015.

Lessons From Balakot Strike and Options for India
On February 27 2019, a day after the IAF struck an alleged terror training camp at Balakot, the PAF surprised the IAF with its longer range AMRAAM and better supporting sensor capability.

“IAF allowed itself to be outgunned by focusing on platform acquisitions, rather than weapon system and sensor upgrades. With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine,” IAF veteran Thakur asserted.
The Indian Air Force ordered a large batch of Russian air-to-air missiles such as R-27, R-73 very shortly after Balakot strike.

Emphasising the importance of indigenous Astra air-to-air missile, Indian Air Force Chief Bhadauria said at a seminar in New Delhi on Friday that when the missile goes on to the Su-30 and MiG-29, that the power of parity and better performance will spread across the air force.

The Indian Air Force will start taking delivery of the Rafale jets in May 2020.

https://sputniknews.com/analysis/20...ce-despite-rafale-jet-deployment-iaf-veteran/

Interest into such topics, is always appreciated but the source must be credited otherwise, threads had to be taken down. Link to the source updated accordingly.

Regards,

 

[Basel]

Wrong.
It only either matches the AIM-120D or is very slightly better.
Obviously one cannot expect mighty USAF to be happy with a similar capability /performance weapon which is why they are developing AIM-260 which will outrange the PL-15 by a huge factor, just like AIM-120D outranged China's PL-12 by a large margin.

Have you seen a PL-15?? Before trying to be expert here first tell us why US the most powerful country is worried about certain systems from China??

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Before you continue to worship Meteor (after abandoning Su-30s/R77s of shame), allow me to disabuse you of the challenges which are coming with Meteor and they will be felt far and wide.

No doubt, Ramjet missiles are throttleable and cruise with optimal fuel efficiency unlike propellents inside solid rocket motors (like AMRAAM) which increase their range. However, Ramjet missiles such as Meteor are air-breathers. They need a thicker atmosphere to breathe and feed their motor with oxygen. Meteor is also heavier and draggier. This is important because the AMRAAM will be let's say, 200lb lighter after 15 seconds of flight while the Meteor will need several minutes to get rid of that kind of weight. Hence the combat effectiveness of Meteor will be far from the likes of AMRAAM.

Your escape zone values are far from real and they dont matter in real combat.

IAF is bad with containing challenges and utilizing the true potential of the technology they employ.

Dont be mistaken, I'm to educate my fellow Pakistani's. Not you. You're just a troll with ndtv.com knowledge.

Sir which AMRAAM are you referrring? Our AIM 120C5 or AIM 120D cuz ours have signaficantly lesser range

 

[The Eagle]

Fortunately he is wrong as PL-15 is much inferior to Meteor, PL-15 is regarded as comparable to AIM-120D (Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D in every engagement envelope).

I can understand why such highly qualified veteran will be issuing wrong statements as such... I agree. An adversary to him/India will never take those words to the credit and be relaxed... psy ops will continue and so lame explanations as well. A lying Veteran, I agree with you again. By the way don't you think that someone having similar or higher credential, should have given him a wrist slap to tell him that he is not just wrong but demoralizing the IAF or; there is everyone just like him and only us, the arm chair generals do know a lot. I am surprised, to be frankly.

 

[Wood]

PL-15s touted range will be of significance if the radar on board JF-17 can lock Rafaels that carry Meteor. We will have to wait for a real conflict to see if this is possible. Until then, only personal bias can make one weapon system better than the other.

 

[Mighty Lion]

I can understand why such highly qualified veteran will be issuing wrong statements as such... I agree. An adversary to him/India will never take those words to the credit and be relaxed... psy ops will continue and so lame explanations as well. A lying Veteran, I agree with you again. By the way don't you think that someone having similar or higher credential, should have given him a wrist slap to tell him that he is not just wrong but demoralizing the IAF or; there is everyone just like him and only us, the arm chair generals do know a lot. I am surprised, to be frankly.

He is not all qualified in this matter.
He retired nearly 20 yrs back and was a CAS pilot and has very little idea about modern A2A BVR missiles.
Plus he is infamous Russian lobbyist

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Not until i have had 3 plates in dinner, that does fine...

Whats ur BMI?

 

[Windjammer]

Sir which AMRAAM are you referrring? Our AIM 120C5 or AIM 120D cuz ours have signaficantly lesser range

Significantly lesser range than what. ??

 

[The Eagle]

Fortunately he is wrong as PL-15 is much inferior to Meteor, PL-15 is regarded as comparable to AIM-120D (Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D in every engagement envelope).

More importantly PL-15 is fitted with dual pulse motor which is a much older tech compared to Meteor's Ramjet engine, which is why Meteor's No escape zone is a whopping 60-70 km & that of AIM-120C is only 25 km & for AIM-120D 35 km (same as PL-15).
Thanks to ramjet, Meteor is the only operational air to air missile in the entire known universe that is capable of terminal stage manuevers.


https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm


He never said that.
What he said that is we need more than 36 Rafale or equivalent jets and the long range engagement capabilty of Rafale must also be possesed by other jets, which is why IAF has begun induction of Astras for Su-30, MiG-29 and Tejas.

Fortunately he is wrong as PL-15 is much inferior to Meteor, PL-15 is regarded as comparable to AIM-120D (Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D in every engagement envelope).

More importantly PL-15 is fitted with dual pulse motor which is a much older tech compared to Meteor's Ramjet engine, which is why Meteor's No escape zone is a whopping 60-70 km & that of AIM-120C is only 25 km & for AIM-120D 35 km (same as PL-15).
Thanks to ramjet, Meteor is the only operational air to air missile in the entire known universe that is capable of terminal stage manuevers.


https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm

Sir, whether you have been attending the Quad Exercises Briefing or not; but you have truly copy pasting a lot onto different threads. I can however only advise you, please pardon me for challenging your authority that, it is not necessary to prove everyone else wrong and make everyone to either agree with you or just runaway because of repetitive posting. Just have your say and leave it and the readers will take any or everything out of it. Apologies again.

Regards,

 

[Basel]

I have attended classified briefings on Chinese weapons incl. Pl-15 during quad exercises.
So I know very well PL-15 & it's reality

You Indians can not even come close to PL-15 and you think you know everything about it, its currently primary BVR of PLAAF and only Pakistan will be other operator of it, it will also do job of what R-37 of Russia can do, with advance AESA seeker and very potent NCW capabilities it is big threat to even USAF, and here Indian in delusion think they have everything out of this world.

China already have operational HEL system this how capable they are and just wait when they will display PL-2X/21D also called Sino Meteor.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Significantly lesser range than what. ??

C5 is 100km. C7 is 120km. D is about 160km. Meteor is about 150km. PL 15 is about 200km.
Our C5 according to net has lesser range than Meteor

 

[Windjammer]

He is not all qualified in this matter.
He retired nearly 20 yrs back and was a CAS pilot and has very little idea about modern A2A BVR missiles.
Plus he is infamous Russian lobbyist

And you a habitual troll consider yourself more qualified than an IAF veteran.
Wonder why the IAF invited someone like Christian Fair for professional inputs, let's face it, she probably never sat in a cockpit in all here life....

C5 is 100km. C7 in 120km. D is about 160km. Meteor is about 150km. PL 15 is about 200km.
Our C5 according to net has lesser range than Meteor

We will talk and compare with the likes of Meteor as and when they become operational with the IAF.

 

[The Eagle]

He is not all qualified in this matter.
He retired nearly 20 yrs back and was a CAS pilot and has very little idea about modern A2A BVR missiles.
Plus he is infamous Russian lobbyist

In one of the threads, an Indian Professional (not openly but been saying similar things like attending meetings etc) also claimed that Indian Strategic Planners do read & adopt battle tactics even from 1800 century and here, you Sir, merely downplaying a veteran of your own because of I don't know but that's unfair. Can you believe a veteran with such vast experience wasn't sitting there to lie & speak gibberish & then quoted by more than 3 media services. Furthermore, the same lying veteran has some credentials to him to speak as such and has more reach to the information as compare to arm chair generals. However, even if he is your countryman; it just seems like a bit disrespecting for a veteran who speaks no ill of India, neither sabotaging anything strategically nor leaking any secrets for political gains but speaks of pure technical knowledge for betterment. Although, your choice to belittle him any time you want to.

IAF veteran.

The veteran is not qualified because he just tried to show them reality similar to the fantasy of flying AWAC/Asian Raptors maintaining no fly zone over Pakistan Airspace in past unless the actual face off.

Plus he is infamous Russian lobbyist

Anyway, a professional enemy will never go to sleep for these remarks only. Either he praises PL-15 or not; there is no break from preparation be it Rafale or Israelis EW.

 

[aliyusuf]

C5 is 100km. C7 in 120km. D is about 160km. Meteor is about 150km. PL 15 is about 200km.
Our C5 according to net has lesser range than Meteor

Our C5 is slightly more than 105 km.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Our C5 is slightly more than 105 km.
View attachment 610934

Thanks for the correction