Pakistan Could Have Technical Edge on Indian Air Force Despite Rafale Jet Deployment: IAF Veteran

[SecularNationalist]

Training, training and only training that's where IAF needs to focus.
According to former air chief Sohail Aman in modern air warfare all Awacs,fighter jets,ground radars and pilot training work as one unit. A lethal combination which throws a lethal punch. PAF with limited resources and budget focus on quality not on budget and quantity like IAF. IAF does not have that lethal punch combination and that was evident on 27 February. Sohail Aman said ok you have more budget,you can buy rafale and sukhois but the question is are you able to train yourself properly on that platform and integrate it within that combination ?
In simple words i can buy a latest and most expensive 9mm pistol but how good is it if I don't know how to aim?
Second weak area of IAF is the maintenance of its fighter fleet. Russian jets need lot of maintenance and many indians su30 s are not combat ready because of poor maintenance. On 27 February India's mirage 2000 was not able to fire MICA missiles because of some technical fault i.e poor maintenance most probably.

 

[araz]

New Delhi (Sputnik): On Friday, Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief RKS Bhadauria said the 36 Rafale jets were not the whole solution to the IAF's needs. India signed a $7.8 billion contract with French Dassault Aviation to buy the aircraft in 2019.

Sitting beside Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, Air Force Chief Rakesh Kumar Bhadauria issued a strong warning to the political leadership of India, claiming that the Rafale fighter jet is insufficient to meet the country's defence needs.

IAF veteran Vijainder K Thakur told Sputnik that Rafale is definitely the best aircraft in the IAF's inventory now. However, a determined adversary like the Pakistan Air Force could turn the tables on the IAF by deploying longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an updated version of the JF-17 jet.

“The technical advantage gained by the IAF through the acquisition of the Rafale would be transient because it would be based largely on the weapon systems and sensors of the Rafale,” Thakur said.
The IAF's excessive focus on platforms rather than sensors and weapon systems was evident during the Kargil conflict with Pakistan two decades ago. “The IAF fulfilled the expectations only after it made emergency purchases of Laser-Guided Bombs and targeting pods,” Thakur said.

Powered Up JF-17
The Pakistan Air Force’s single engine multirole fighter, the JF-17 manufactured by the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, is due for a major upgrade, similar to the advanced technologies seen on the J-20 stealth fighter, the Chinese newspaper Global Times reported earlier this year.

It is confirmed by the Chinese outlet that the upgraded JF-17 fighter jet will have “an infrared search and track system and a radar cross section reducing ‘pseudo-stealthy’ airframe”.

The JF-17 fighter jet has been also equipping with PL-15 Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missile that has posed serious concern among the US Air Force due to the long range of its missiles.

Herbert J. Carlisle, the then head of the US Air Force’s combat command, was quoted by Flight Global as saying that outmatching the Chinese PL-15 air-to-air missile in particular is an “exceedingly high priority”.
“The PL-15 and the range of that missile, we’ve got to be able to out-stick that missile,” US Air Force’s Command chief had said in 2015.

Lessons From Balakot Strike and Options for India
On February 27 2019, a day after the IAF struck an alleged terror training camp at Balakot, the PAF surprised the IAF with its longer range AMRAAM and better supporting sensor capability.

“IAF allowed itself to be outgunned by focusing on platform acquisitions, rather than weapon system and sensor upgrades. With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine,” IAF veteran Thakur asserted.
The Indian Air Force ordered a large batch of Russian air-to-air missiles such as R-27, R-73 very shortly after Balakot strike.

Emphasising the importance of indigenous Astra air-to-air missile, Indian Air Force Chief Bhadauria said at a seminar in New Delhi on Friday that when the missile goes on to the Su-30 and MiG-29, that the power of parity and better performance will spread across the air force.

The Indian Air Force will start taking delivery of the Rafale jets in May 2020.

READ BETWEEEN THE LINES. This is IAFs pitch to acquire more platforms and possibly more commission on deals. Nothing more or less. I think the only time they will callPAF superior from an official is to drum up support for their own acquisitions .
However I am amazed as to how they want to enter into a net centric environment by buying platforms from multiple providers. This is a headache in the making.
A

 

[denel]

READ BETWEEEN THE LINES. This is IAFs pitch to acquire more platforms and possibly more commission on deals. Nothing more or less. I think the only time they will callPAF superior from an official is to drum up support for their own acquisitions .
However I am amazed as to how they want to enter into a net centric environment by buying platforms from multiple providers. This is a headache in the making.
A

That is exactly what my thoughts are. First Rafael drums were beaten, now we need more of others. It is a way of inducing massive hysteria for larger procurement of which no doubt he will take a cut for promoting.

 

[airomerix]

Fortunately he is wrong as PL-15 is much inferior to Meteor, PL-15 is regarded as comparable to AIM-120D (Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D in every engagement envelope).

More importantly PL-15 is fitted with dual pulse motor which is a much older tech compared to Meteor's Ramjet engine, which is why Meteor's No escape zone is a whopping 60-70 km & that of AIM-120C is only 25 km & for AIM-120D 35 km (same as PL-15).
Thanks to ramjet, Meteor is the only operational air to air missile in the entire known universe that is capable of terminal stage manuevers.


https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm


He never said that.
What he said that is we need more than 36 Rafale or equivalent jets and the long range engagement capabilty of Rafale must also be possesed by other jets, which is why IAF has begun induction of Astras for Su-30, MiG-29 and Tejas.

Before you continue to worship Meteor (after abandoning Su-30s/R77s of shame), allow me to disabuse you of the challenges which are coming with Meteor and they will be felt far and wide.

No doubt, Ramjet missiles are throttleable and cruise with optimal fuel efficiency unlike propellents inside solid rocket motors (like AMRAAM) which increase their range. However, Ramjet missiles such as Meteor are air-breathers. They need a thicker atmosphere to breathe and feed their motor with oxygen. Meteor is also heavier and draggier. This is important because the AMRAAM will be let's say, 200lb lighter after 15 seconds of flight while the Meteor will need several minutes to get rid of that kind of weight. Hence the combat effectiveness of Meteor will be far from the likes of AMRAAM.

Your escape zone values are far from real and they dont matter in real combat.

IAF is bad with containing challenges and utilizing the true potential of the technology they employ.

Dont be mistaken, I'm to educate my fellow Pakistani's. Not you. You're just a troll with ndtv.com knowledge.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Fortunately he is wrong as PL-15 is much inferior to Meteor, PL-15 is regarded as comparable to AIM-120D (Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D in every engagement envelope).

so wait, the American government is stupid to invest billions of dollars in Raytheon and at the end to get inferior missiles for its world's most advanced Air force where as India with just few hundred million dollars can gain access to 2 times more advance AAM then American counterpart?
If MBDA Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D then USAF would have also been their customer or they would have Incorporated MBDA technology because Americans like to have the best technology in the world.

 

[diligence]

New Delhi (Sputnik): On Friday, Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief RKS Bhadauria said the 36 Rafale jets were not the whole solution to the IAF's needs. India signed a $7.8 billion contract with French Dassault Aviation to buy the aircraft in 2019.

Sitting beside Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, Air Force Chief Rakesh Kumar Bhadauria issued a strong warning to the political leadership of India, claiming that the Rafale fighter jet is insufficient to meet the country's defence needs.

IAF veteran Vijainder K Thakur told Sputnik that Rafale is definitely the best aircraft in the IAF's inventory now. However, a determined adversary like the Pakistan Air Force could turn the tables on the IAF by deploying longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an updated version of the JF-17 jet.

“The technical advantage gained by the IAF through the acquisition of the Rafale would be transient because it would be based largely on the weapon systems and sensors of the Rafale,” Thakur said.
The IAF's excessive focus on platforms rather than sensors and weapon systems was evident during the Kargil conflict with Pakistan two decades ago. “The IAF fulfilled the expectations only after it made emergency purchases of Laser-Guided Bombs and targeting pods,” Thakur said.

Powered Up JF-17
The Pakistan Air Force’s single engine multirole fighter, the JF-17 manufactured by the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, is due for a major upgrade, similar to the advanced technologies seen on the J-20 stealth fighter, the Chinese newspaper Global Times reported earlier this year.

It is confirmed by the Chinese outlet that the upgraded JF-17 fighter jet will have “an infrared search and track system and a radar cross section reducing ‘pseudo-stealthy’ airframe”.

The JF-17 fighter jet has been also equipping with PL-15 Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missile that has posed serious concern among the US Air Force due to the long range of its missiles.

Herbert J. Carlisle, the then head of the US Air Force’s combat command, was quoted by Flight Global as saying that outmatching the Chinese PL-15 air-to-air missile in particular is an “exceedingly high priority”.
“The PL-15 and the range of that missile, we’ve got to be able to out-stick that missile,” US Air Force’s Command chief had said in 2015.

Lessons From Balakot Strike and Options for India
On February 27 2019, a day after the IAF struck an alleged terror training camp at Balakot, the PAF surprised the IAF with its longer range AMRAAM and better supporting sensor capability.

“IAF allowed itself to be outgunned by focusing on platform acquisitions, rather than weapon system and sensor upgrades. With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine,” IAF veteran Thakur asserted.
The Indian Air Force ordered a large batch of Russian air-to-air missiles such as R-27, R-73 very shortly after Balakot strike.

Emphasising the importance of indigenous Astra air-to-air missile, Indian Air Force Chief Bhadauria said at a seminar in New Delhi on Friday that when the missile goes on to the Su-30 and MiG-29, that the power of parity and better performance will spread across the air force.

The Indian Air Force will start taking delivery of the Rafale jets in May 2020.

"IAF veteran Vijainder K Thakur told Sputnik that Rafale is definitely the best aircraft in the IAF's inventory now. However, a determined adversary like the Pakistan Air Force could turn the tables on the IAF by deploying longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an updated version of the JF-17 jet."

Come on, why you Indians perpetually keep crying? You were telling your people, us, and rest of the world that Chinese produce only third rated junk. You guys were labeling the Pak-China fighter plane Thunder as Blunder. After the shock-therapy given by Thunder, now you see even Rafale as no match to the Chinese systems. The matter of fact is that Thunder has created a deep-rooted fear in Indian psych.

Good job Pak pride, JF-17 Thunder.
Thanks to our Iron Bothers.
Long live Pak-Chine friendship.

"With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine,”
It's not a lack of military foresight. It is their sheer stupidity and massive capability of self-deception that made a real difference on 27th Fab. 2019. Indians are bloody liars. They lie and deceive themselves first and then try doing the same to the world. Even their failed strike on a madrassa was continuously propagated as an attack of a terrorist camp killing 300 terrorists. Then Indians were falsely happy in claiming the shooting down of an F-16 and that too by a flying coffin Mig-21. I think Pakistan is lucky to have as stupid and retard enemies as Indians.

 

[El Sidd]

Nuff Said !!

Nov 15, 2018
#14
Retired Troll
Retired Troll
ELITE MEMBER
SuvarnaTeja said: ↑
What is the difference between "General Knowledge" and "Common Knowledge"


General knowledge is that geogrpahy is against any defending Air Force in India.

Common knowledge is IAF does not meet Operational demands as an invading force either.

 

[StormBreaker]

Meteor uses Ancient Lingum SpaceTravel Technology!

It is the most advanced mijjile the Humanity has ever known!

PLAAF and PAF are doomed... @Beast

This Meteor mijjile is going to make India ShooperPauer of the Galaxy....


@StormBreaker @SIPRA @PakSword @Reddington @Verve @Maarkhoor @Clutch

Kudos to the writer to be actually living in reality.
Rafale if counted only vs BVR of both Air forces, Rafale is inferior to Block 3 (Not taking EW/ECM into account)

 

[Dark1]

Western jets have been consistently coming up on top in the last 30 years against Russian, especially American jets.
This can be seen even in the recent Syrian conflict.
Though most conflicts have been one sided as the Americans would beat any other country's airforce easily.
A European vs Russian jets , like the Rafael vs the su35 or the euro fighter vs su35/30, would be more revealing.
If Russia enters the air war over syria , we could get some good references.
In the sub continent , the f16 and mirage 2000 purchases ,seem to be the top performers.
Mirage was bought in the mid eighties, while the su30 were inducted in the early 2000s , a 15 year difference. But still the mirage seems to be the go to fighter for the IAF.
Chinese planes are unproven , so cant really be evaluated.
Chief's in democracies have a tendency to exaggerate weaknesses to get the required funds.
I feel the su30s are a adequate buy but not a excellent one. India has no option but to involve the private sector if it wants a competent home grown fighter jet.

 

[PakSword]

Fortunately he is wrong

You mean your Air Chief is wrong?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Before you continue to worship Meteor (after abandoning Su-30s/R77s of shame), allow me to disabuse you of the challenges which are coming with Meteor and they will be felt far and wide.

No doubt, Ramjet missiles are throttleable and cruise with optimal fuel efficiency unlike propellents inside solid rocket motors (like AMRAAM) which increase their range. However, Ramjet missiles such as Meteor are air-breathers. They need a thicker atmosphere to breathe and feed their motor with oxygen. Meteor is also heavier and draggier. This is important because the AMRAAM will be let's say, 200lb lighter after 15 seconds of flight while the Meteor will need several minutes to get rid of that kind of weight. Hence the combat effectiveness of Meteor will be far from the likes of AMRAAM.

Your escape zone values are far from real and they dont matter in real combat.

IAF is bad with containing challenges and utilizing the true potential of the technology they employ.

Dont be mistaken, I'm to educate my fellow Pakistani's. Not you. You're just a troll with ndtv.com knowledge.

IIRC China is also developing new variants of the PL-12, including a rumoured ramjet version. So, the PAF could have the chance to experiment and get a decent idea how each type of AAM works at various altitudes, ranges, etc.

 

[PakGuns]

Fortunately he is wrong as PL-15 is much inferior to Meteor, PL-15 is regarded as comparable to AIM-120D (Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D in every engagement envelope).

More importantly PL-15 is fitted with dual pulse motor which is a much older tech compared to Meteor's Ramjet engine, which is why Meteor's No escape zone is a whopping 60-70 km & that of AIM-120C is only 25 km & for AIM-120D 35 km (same as PL-15).
Thanks to ramjet, Meteor is the only operational air to air missile in the entire known universe that is capable of terminal stage manuevers.


https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm

now india owns it so it must be lumberd 1...

 

[ARMalik]

Fortunately he is wrong as PL-15 is much inferior to Meteor, PL-15 is regarded as comparable to AIM-120D (Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D in every engagement envelope).

More importantly PL-15 is fitted with dual pulse motor which is a much older tech compared to Meteor's Ramjet engine, which is why Meteor's No escape zone is a whopping 60-70 km & that of AIM-120C is only 25 km & for AIM-120D 35 km (same as PL-15).
Thanks to ramjet, Meteor is the only operational air to air missile in the entire known universe that is capable of terminal stage manuevers.


https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm

You really are one giant turd sandwich with your Senseless rants, and calling your own AF Chief as a liar. Just shows the idiotic nature of the occupants of this landmass called india.

 

[Psychic]

We must keep our guard up.

They will try to avenge 27-2-19 once they get the new hardware and foreign assistance.

We have to up our level accordingly. The attitude of our people underestimating the enemy is deeply worrying.

 

[El Sidd]

@Retired Troll having to do ur job here...u gotta step it up.

You enjoy eating veggies. I enjoy only cutting them. We so different kind of monsters.