Pakistan cautions India against ‘two front’ situation

[xyxmt]

Apart from the half-brained, and turncoats from terrorist organisations who are 'persuaded' to point to Indian connections?

How long will you keep up the drama? Not a single Indian has been killed in Pakistan, dozens of Pakistanis are killed in India. What does that say to you?

According to India they were Pakistanis, I am sure you are referring to Kasab and friends, you should watch his interview with an open heart and tell me if he is a Pakistani from Punjab, if he is then he was the only Punjabi with that accent, should have been put in a museum, true they were eating Pakistani candies after all which terrorists wont pack candies before going to heaven.

 

[Joe Shearer]

We will fully support Pakistan in this endeavor. Human right violations and genocide in Kashmir needs to stop. India needs to vacate and a referendum needs to be conducted.

And false flags need to be patched together with the right colours on them. Now eff off.

 

[YeBeWarned]

I agree with those who have noticed that you make sensible and balanced comments, and have in general a balanced point of view: it is nice that some, and soon many more, will agree with me. But I must join issue with some of your observations, that represent Pakistani urban legend produced as fact.

In this post, it is not Indian nuclear weapons that prevent Pakistan from taking Indian administered Kashmir back. It is standard orthodox Indian military strength. Efforts at fomenting terrorism and winning over the Kashmiri did not succeed in 1965, such efforts peaked twice in recent decades, once during the 90s, once less than a year ago, and in normally sub-normal conditions, infiltrators from the Punjab and a handful of local youngsters lose their lives to Indian security forces within weeks of deployment.

I was responding to a Indian comment, i know bringing nukes into the equation is little far stretched but lets go and play with our side Fan boys for a second too Joe, after all we do have those white Horse forces coming from Sky to help us

from what i think that Kashmir is still on a boiling point and its not subsiding as young fighters are been killed almost every week , the point will remain for that we are two countries stuck in a ego game to satisfy the masses of our public, but i wonder people on top level do care about Kashmiri's ..

I appreciate your feedback and sensible comments...Even i have observed in other threads where your comments are rational...

I sometimes troll to
guilty as charged

No we don't provide anything to terrorists ,your govt specially military claims India does it but after claiming for so many years about Indian involvement no proof is presented .you should ask your agencies ,if we are to believe what they say ,raw has infiltrated all walks of life in Pakistan

If you want play that Denial game, than there are other troll member you can reach , when some country is covertly helping rebellions Proves are some Holy grail which is hard to find, US till this date refused to accept helping the Syrian Moderate rebel aka future terrorists .

Cause when we we're arming Bangladesh, we saw it through in about two weeks.....not gripe and moan about it for 70 plus years.

Bangladesh was bound to happen one way or another , as for arming rebels is the main point .. you cant say when i do it its Halal when you do it its haram ..

 

[Joe Shearer]

According to India they were Pakistanis, I am sure you are referring to Kasab and friends, you should watch his interview with an open heart and tell me if he is a Pakistani from Punjab, if he is then he was the only Punjabi with that accent, should have been put in a museum, true they were eating Pakistani candies after all which terrorists wont pack candies before going to heaven.

I know you are sincere in writing this post. We have been through this, perhaps not in discussion with each other, but in various permutations and combinations, for ages. Please consider the following:

1. You are aware of the actual incidents during the attacks on Bombay. I hope you agree that it was not staged, but people actually died.
2. Nine out of ten were killed, one was captured.
3. The captured person's antecedents were sought to be checked by Pakistani media people, until they were discouraged with unmistakable menace from any attempts at gaining access to Kasab's people.
4. Those people, his family members, thereafter disappeared. They had no means for a sophisticated vanishing on their own; their poverty is believed to have been one of Kasab's motivators in joining an armed group for the sake of survival money.
5. The radio intercepts exist, in full and gory detail. That is the basis on which specific, individual Pakistanis were sought by international warrant. We both know the names, the fate of those individuals and the complete opacity regarding mysterious military people who drift in and out of the narrative.
6. These transcripts are not Indian alone, but those of other countries as well. Meaning that there is more than one source of interceptions.
7. These corroborate Kasab's account. But there is more.
8. In later years, Headley testified to precisely the same circumstances that Kasab had narrated.

There is no point in going to the accent issue with this amount of overwhelming evidence piled up. But that is my opinion, and we are both entitled to hold our own.

 

[cocomo]

Man these pathetic types are master of psychological projections. India and USA cry about things they do themselves.

 

[SMC]

Nah I just told what world says so

This is your imagination. Only bharat thinks so, and perhaps Afghanistan. Rest of the world doesn't revolve around bharat.

That's the Pakistani story. I can kidnap a civilian, a retired soldier, in Pakistan administered Kashmir, and claim he was caught in Bangalore. Who will contradict me? Pakistani sources and nobody else.

And that is precisely what is happening in the case of Yadav.

This has been discussed to death a thousand times. What you are talking about is some vast conspiracy of Pakistan kidnapping someone from Iran just to malign India. I thought you were not much into conspiracy theories. I am just going to copy a previous post of mine and would like to see your response.

If Khulbushan was abducted from Iran, why did Iran not protest to Pakistan about violating its sovereignty? Failing that, does it mean Iran assisted Pakistan in capturing Yadav? Why has the Indian government not approached Iran in finding out if Iran assisted Pakistan, and if not then why doesn't Iran protest Pakistan breaching its sovereignty?

Your theory fails the basic test of logic. Every freaking country, especially the likes of Iran of all countries, will make a big deal about their sovereignty being violated. You have no answer as to why Iran government has done nothing about that.

Even not taking the confession into account, the biggest smoking gun is the fake passport found from your agent. If that's not fishy I don't know what is.

The fact is that every single Indian spy we have released has admitted to being a spy as soon as they enter India. Those are literally the first words out of their mouths as soon as both their feet are inside Indian territory. Bharatis have cried and complained about how each one of those was innocent and wondered off into Pakistan and whatnot. It's a whole bunch of BS and propaganda. Seriously, no one is buying your story anymore.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is your imagination. Only bharat thinks so, and perhaps Afghanistan. Rest of the world doesn't revolve around bharat.



This has been discussed to death a thousand times. What you are talking about is some vast conspiracy of Pakistan kidnapping someone from Iran just to malign India. I thought you were not much into conspiracy theories. I am just going to copy a previous post of mine and would like to see your response.

If Khulbushan was abducted from Iran, why did Iran not protest to Pakistan about violating its sovereignty? Failing that, does it mean Iran assisted Pakistan in capturing Yadav? Why has the Indian government not approached Iran in finding out if Iran assisted Pakistan, and if not then why doesn't Iran protest Pakistan breaching its sovereignty?

Your theory fails the basic test of logic. Every freaking country, especially the likes of Iran of all countries, will make a big deal about their sovereignty being violated. You have no answer as to why Iran government has done nothing about that.

Even not taking the confession into account, the biggest smoking gun is the fake passport found from your agent. If that's not fishy I don't know what is.

The fact is that every single Indian spy we have released has admitted to being a spy as soon as they enter India. Those are literally the first words out of their mouths as soon as both their feet are inside Indian territory. Bharatis have cried and complained about how each one of those was innocent and wondered off into Pakistan and whatnot. Seriously, no one is buying your story anymore.

If you can bring yourself to discuss this calmly, without the histrionics, your post may be worth replying.

 

[SMC]

If you can bring yourself to discuss this calmly, without the histrionics, your post may be worth replying.

More "histrionic" than your own posts? I am going to guess that you do not have a single viable argument, so you are going to hide behind personal attacks to not answer my post. You can ignore my previous post, but just answer the following two paragraphs, which are very straightforward:

If Khulbushan was abducted from Iran, why did Iran not protest to Pakistan about violating its sovereignty? Failing that, does it mean Iran assisted Pakistan in capturing Yadav? Why has the Indian government not approached Iran in finding out if Iran assisted Pakistan, and if not then why doesn't Iran protest Pakistan breaching its sovereignty?

Even not taking the confession into account, the biggest smoking gun is the fake passport found from your agent.

 

[Joe Shearer]

More "histrionic" than your own posts? I am going to guess that you do not have a single viable argument, so you are going to hide behind personal attacks to not answer my post. You can ignore my previous post, but just answer the following two paragraphs, which are very straightforward:

If Khulbushan was abducted from Iran, why did Iran not protest to Pakistan about violating its sovereignty? Failing that, does it mean Iran assisted Pakistan in capturing Yadav? Why has the Indian government not approached Iran in finding out if Iran assisted Pakistan, and if not then why doesn't Iran protest Pakistan breaching its sovereignty?

Even not taking the confession into account, the biggest smoking gun is the fake passport found from your agent.

Once, I will answer. And that is the last. As far as your fulminations are concerned, I am not bothered.

1. Kulbhushan was abducted from Iran. Do you think that this was in full view of Iranian authorities or security personnel? How should Iran have known about this illegal act, this kidnapping, if there was nothing to indicate that he had been bundled across?
2. Does ignorance of a kidnapping amount to assistance in the kidnapping?
3. The Indian government has approached Iran, and been told that Iran knows nothing about it, and cannot interfere in any matter within another sovereign state; Iran had no information about Yadav. Is that difficult to understand?
4. How should Iran protest to Pakistan, without any evidence that such an act had occurred? And what evidence can be offered of a man held up, bundled into a vehicle and later smuggled across a porous border?
5. The smoking gun was 'discovered' by those who had EVERY incentive to discover it. This is the biggest joke in the whole affair, not the biggest smoking gun, but the biggest joke.

I am sorry, but these are not arguments to take seriously, not even if a school boy makes them.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Then vacate that occupied part of Pakistan

Reality is that the Indian security forces regularly have to arrange for the disposal of a few bodies from Pakistan every month. So what do you judge from that, other than the need to keep the access points under pressure? And if you keep infiltrating terrorists from points that are full of civilians, who is to blame for accidental casualties among civilians?

 

[SMC]

Once, I will answer. And that is the last. As far as your fulminations are concerned, I am not bothered.

Your counter-arguments are quite simplistic, which suggests you know deep down that this is a flaw in your theory.

1. Kulbhushan was abducted from Iran. Do you think that this was in full view of Iranian authorities or security personnel? How should Iran have known about this illegal act, this kidnapping, if there was nothing to indicate that he had been bundled across?
2. Does ignorance of a kidnapping amount to assistance in the kidnapping?

There's a few points that are sufficient for this.

1) According to these two points of yours, there is no evidence of Yadav being abducted from Iran. You are saying that Iran had no evidence that this happened, but you also suggests India does not have evidence to provide to Iran that this happened either.
2) An abduction doesn't need to be in full view of Iranian authorities. If I as a foreign citizen kidnapped someone out of Iran (Iranian or not) on behest of a foreign intelligence agency, would Iranian government be OK with it just because they did not see me do it? That is full blown violation of their sovereignty. Why does it matter if he had already been moved across the border? You know how jingoistic Iranian government is, how do you think they will take to someone violating their sovereignty?
3) Ignorance of kidnapping does not amount to assistance, but it does mean they do not think their sovereignty was violated. Based on the lack of evidence that he was abducted from Iran, one must assume that he was not.

Just FYI, it appears you think can make claims without evidence -- in this case that Yadav was abducted from Iran -- and you complain when you think others are making claims without evidence. So, it sounds like you think you are free to make claims without evidence?

Essentially, what you are doing is saying that we must believe your Iran abduction story with no evidence to back up that story.

The Indian government has approached Iran, and been told that Iran knows nothing about it, and cannot interfere in any matter within another sovereign state; Iran had no information about Yadav. Is that difficult to understand?

First, can you link any article on this? Assuming what you are saying is true, you don't understand my core argument. This isn't about Iran not having information about Yadav. It's about foreign intelligence agents coming into Iran, operating there and then abducting someone. They could have abducted someone at the bottom of the society for all I care, but what matters is Iranian sovereignty was violated.

1. How should Iran protest to Pakistan, without any evidence that such an act had occurred? And what evidence can be offered of a man held up, bundled into a vehicle and later smuggled across a porous border?

There are a thousand ways to protest. Diplomatic protests, shoot a few missiles, kill a few soldiers, go on the media, etc.

1. The smoking gun was 'discovered' by those who had EVERY incentive to discover it. This is the biggest joke in the whole affair, not the biggest smoking gun, but the biggest joke.

Do you actually have an actual argument there? FYI - your state frequently uses passports as evidence. So you must agree that they are strong part of evidence. I am still trying to find what your counter argument here is or you actually have nothing.

I am sorry, but these are not arguments to take seriously, not even if a school boy makes them.

Having observed online discussions for years and years, these lines are usually from those that want someone shut down because they are unable to respond to their arguments. If these arguments are not to be taken seriously then you should be able to make reasonable counter arguments without resorting to sentences like this one.

Man these pathetic types are master of psychological projections. India and USA cry about things they do themselves.

That's what countries outside the Western sphere and the (small) Indian sphere need to understand, and use these tactics on them. I've spoken time and time again about these two countries using terrorism as a state policy for a long time, but their diplomatic and media propaganda arms are so strong that they project some other countries using terrorism against them as the much bigger problem.

India has supported groups like Mukhti Bahni, LTTE, TTP, BLA, BRA, sectarian groups in Karachi and rest of Pakistan, etc. These groups have killed hundreds of thousands of people, yet somehow their diplomacy and propaganda prowess is so strong that they can act like an innocent 6 year old in front of the world. And it's not much difference for the US. They have supported more terrorist groups and more regime changes and their propaganda prowess is even stronger than bharat's.

China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan etc need to invest much more in catching up with the propaganda arms of these spheres.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Then vacate that occupied part of Pakistan

We have vacated every part of Pakistan that is Pakistan's.

 

[AntiToxic]

For that you have to stop first

Suit boot mein aays kanaya........Most confused people on earth.... yestrday their FO was begging for talks on all issues and also pakistan wants to engage india on CPEC. FIX your foreign policy first..

 

[Gurjot.S]

I dont think A-stan is a big deal for pakistan in case of war with india. There are many elements in A-stan who are pro pakistan.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Your counter-arguments are quite simplistic, which suggests you know deep down that this is a flaw in your theory.

On the contrary; I believe that what really happened is precisely what I have described. Take a look at the man; was he intelligence material, and, in the extremely unlikely case that he was, was he anything more than a listening post observer, collecting data from people who visited his office?

There's a few points that are sufficient for this.

1) According to these two points of yours, there is no evidence of Yadav being abducted from Iran. You are saying that Iran had no evidence that this happened, but you also suggests India does not have evidence to provide to Iran that this happened either.

Yes.

2) An abduction doesn't need to be in full view of Iranian authorities. If I as a foreign citizen kidnapped someone out of Iran (Iranian or not) on behest of a foreign intelligence agency, would Iranian government be OK with it just because they did not see me do it? That is full blown violation of their sovereignty. Why does it matter if he had already been moved across the border? You know how jingoistic Iranian government is, how do you think they will take to someone violating their sovereignty?

And how would they know that he had not moved across in a clandestine way? Do you think they would take sides on the Indian side in a quarrel between India and Pakistan? Challenging his kidnapping would amount to questioning Pakistan and taking India's side.

3) Ignorance of kidnapping does not amount to assistance, but it does mean they do not think their sovereignty was violated. Based on the lack of evidence that he was abducted from Iran, one must assume that he was not.

That is as shallow as saying that based on the lack of evidence that he was NOT abducted from Iran, one must assume that he was.

Just FYI, it appears you think can make claims without evidence -- in this case that Yadav was abducted from Iran -- and you complain when you think others are making claims without evidence. So, it sounds like you think you are free to make claims without evidence?

Precisely.

When Pakistani claims are without foundation or proof, anybody can make up his own story, and, as long as he (or she) has Yadav's body in their possession, they can claim authenticity.

Essentially, what you are doing is saying that we must believe your Iran abduction story with no evidence to back up that story.

Just try reversing it and see how it reads.

Essentially, what you are doing is saying that we must believe your infiltration into Balochistan story with no evidence to back up that story.

See what I mean? The ISI story is a silly concoction, planned in the kind of unkempt, half-baked way that gives away its provenance, and is a blessing for a country that has been desperately trying to prove Indian complicity in Balochi unrest for decades without a shred of evidence. What a godsend.

There is a principle in law, that, in considering responsibility for a crime, look for the beneficiary. Look up 'cui bono'.

First, can you link any article on this? Assuming what you are saying is true, you don't understand my core argument. This isn't about Iran not having information about Yadav. It's about foreign intelligence agents coming into Iran, operating there and then abducting someone. They could have abducted someone at the bottom of the society for all I care, but what matters is Iranian sovereignty was violated.

I believe it was, but have no proof. Neither does anyone else have any proof, any authentic evidence about what happened. We know enough of the ways of intelligence agencies; after the information we have that the Israelis were recruiting people from Afghanistan claiming to be American agents, without the consent of the Americans, for instance, why do you think that we should accept the word of a wholly unrestrained agency that has already been shown to have mounted a raid on a major world city that killed hundreds of men, women and children?

There are a thousand ways to protest. Diplomatic protests, shoot a few missiles, kill a few soldiers, go on the media, etc.

Who should do that? The Iranians? Their sovereignty was violated, but they don't know for certain.

Do you actually have an actual argument there? FYI - your state frequently uses passports as evidence. So you must agree that they are strong part of evidence. I am still trying to find what your counter argument here is or you actually have nothing.

As strong as the dubious information about Yadav being detected and detained inside Balochistan; as strong as the forged passport he was carrying, that could have been made by any forger specialised in the task, of which there are dozens; as strong as the confessions extracted from him, which are valueless under the circumstances.

Having observed online discussions for years and years, these lines are usually from those that want someone shut down because they are unable to respond to their arguments. If these arguments are not to be taken seriously then you should be able to make reasonable counter arguments without resorting to sentences like this one.

That has nothing to do with the arguments, that is just your way of expressing discomfort that everything is not going your way; why should that remark be taken into consideration if my own remarks are supposed not to be worth considering?

That's what countries outside the Western sphere and the (small) Indian sphere need to understand, and use these tactics on them. I've spoken time and time again about these two countries using terrorism as a state policy for a long time, but their diplomatic and media propaganda arms are so strong that they project some other countries using terrorism against them as the much bigger problem.

India has supported groups like Mukhti Bahni, LTTE, TTP, BLA, BRA, sectarian groups in Karachi and rest of Pakistan, etc. These groups have killed hundreds of thousands of people, yet somehow their diplomacy and propaganda prowess is so strong that they can act like an innocent 6 year old in front of the world. And it's not much difference for the US. They have supported more terrorist groups and more regime changes and their propaganda prowess is even stronger than bharat's.

China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan etc need to invest much more in catching up with the propaganda arms of these spheres.

Maybe it is better that Pakistan in particular pays less attention to covert mechanisms and pays more attention to diplomacy. We have done so, and you yourself have mentioned it in a distorted way, not acknowledging the power of diplomacy, but choosing to look at it as mere propaganda. If you, and other compatriots of yours, had ever understood the difference, we would be living in a much more peaceful world.

How do you extrapolate from the Mukti Bahini and the LTTE to your own home-grown movements, and how do you conclude that there is a link between India and the TTP, BLA, BRA and others? Until today, not a shred of evidence has been produced; all we get is that famous folder waved about by Sartaj Aziz whenever there is too much pressure on Pakistan.