Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[Rajput_Pakistani]

Thank you for that post, but I would be willing to wager that that 33 year old PW and airframe can put a pair of missiles backed by decent avionics and enough fuel to do the job from brakes off to 40,000 feet faster than the JF-17, or put twice as much ordnance in ground targets with greater accuracy, other things being equal.

Great as the JF-17 is, it has a weak engine, not enough internal fuel and cobbled together avionics. It will take some time to develop into a platform fit for this century rather than the last.

No offence intended or implied, Sir.

Your posts are not backed by any concrete logic. Why are you comparing a MMRCA with a Light weight Fighter? Both classes are different, so no comparison.
There is one thing which is called US Military Aid. USA will never allow its funds to be transferred to other programs, as many posters here are trying to say, that what if we have spent this money to produce more JF17s, which is behind schedule due to lack of finances.

PAF guys out there are more smart then any one of us keyboard intellectuals. No one here knows, where do Thunders fits in the grand operational objectives of PAF? One thing is for sure that F16s MLU are for different role, Block52 for different. The squadron raised from Ex-Jordanian F16 may be used to peace time ops, while saving critical hours on expensive Block52. We also dont know yet what PAF is intending to future upgrade of these planes.

We also know one thing for sure, that our Mirage/F7 fleet is fast depleting. So what if we get 13 used F16s, which even in current state are far superior to Mirages and F7s?

I dont think anything is wrong here. Finance of projects with China and projects with USA are completely different heads. We cant intermingle them even if we want too.

 

[Munir]

Thank you for that post, but I would be willing to wager that that 33 year old PW and airframe can put a pair of missiles backed by decent avionics and enough fuel to do the job from brakes off to 40,000 feet faster than the JF-17, or put twice as much ordnance in ground targets with greater accuracy, other things being equal.

Great as the JF-17 is, it has a weak engine, not enough internal fuel and cobbled together avionics. It will take some time to develop into a platform fit for this century rather than the last.

No offence intended or implied, Sir.

Maybe you live to long in the USA but do remember what happened in 71... Why the "F" PAF needed to fly asap Mig19 copies over the himalaya? And what happened after Pak showed it had nukes just like Israel or India? You have no idea about risk, dependency or even costs. No... You come up with decades old rust being better then... I think we do not have to go in details cause at this level there is a difference in mind set.

 

[VCheng]

Maybe you live to long in the USA but do remember what happened in 71... Why the "F" PAF needed to fly asap Mig19 copies over the himalaya? And what happened after Pak showed it had nukes just like Israel or India? You have no idea about risk, dependency or even costs. No... You come up with decades old rust being better then... I think we do not have to go in details cause at this level there is a difference in mind set.

Let's talk actual evidence, not claims, if you could, please.

(I have an idea of what I speak.)

 

[nomi007]

paf pilot in ex-rjaf f-16s cuming way to pakistan

 

[Munir]

paf pilot in ex-rjaf f-16s cuming way to pakistan

These are not Jordanians but PAF from the beginning. So they are not cOming to Pakistan but are already part of PAF.

Vcheng, just put me on your ignore list. I just did the same to you so we do not waste any bandwith about this or that without you going into facts. You do not provide any facts but based on nothing say that F16ADF is better then Block 2 JF17. Just had contact with some sources and they confirm what I said. Case closed.

 

[VCheng]

These are not Jordanians but PAF from the beginning. So they are not cOming to Pakistan but are already part of PAF.

Vcheng, just put me on your ignore list. I just did the same to you so we do not waste any bandwith about this or that without you going into facts. You do not provide any facts but based on nothing say that F16ADF is better then Block 2 JF17. Just had contact with some sources and they confirm what I said. Case closed.

Sure, suit yourself. With the present engine, the JF-17 is not going anywhere fast. Literally.

(BTW, this classic "Trust us, we know what we are doing" attitude belongs in the last century, and can work only so far in this changed world. Time to wake up! Deeds and evidence based conclusions work much better.)

 

[Indus Falcon]

...and who has a firm order for MiG-35s?

A special kinda stupid!

 

[airmarshal]

My question is why Jordan sold them?

Are going to buy new planes or these were being retired?

 

[araz]

These are not Jordanians but PAF from the beginning. So they are not cOming to Pakistan but are already part of PAF.

Vcheng, just put me on your ignore list. I just did the same to you so we do not waste any bandwith about this or that without you going into facts. You do not provide any facts but based on nothing say that F16ADF is better then Block 2 JF17. Just had contact with some sources and they confirm what I said. Case closed.

Munir.
Then why do you think PAF bought them. I am only asking because if what you are saying is the truth(and I have no reason to state otherwise) it does not make any sense to buy planes which are likely to become a liability and a danger for our pilots. And I honestly dont know the answer. Even as a deal it is not meaty enough for someone to make money out of it. Help appreciated.
Araz

 

[Munir]

Munir.
Then why do you think PAF bought them. I am only asking because if what you are saying is the truth(and I have no reason to state otherwise) it does not make any sense to buy planes which are likely to become a liability and a danger for our pilots. And I honestly dont know the answer. Even as a deal it is not meaty enough for someone to make money out of it. Help appreciated.
Araz

It is cheaper then JF17... Just do the math. You know the price of JF17. If you know the price of these planes then it is extremely cheap to go for replacing F7p with F16. And since they paid for enough MLU packets (which already are bought) it still is cheap. So in essence it is cash management like no other. But without MLU it is not that good. That is what I said.

 

[Bilal.]

It is cheaper then JF17... Just do the math. You know the price of JF17. If you know the price of these planes then it is extremely cheap to go for replacing F7p with F16. And since they paid for enough MLU packets (which already are bought) it still is cheap. So in essence it is cash management like no other. But without MLU it is not that good. That is what I said.

So should we hope to see them go through same mlu upgrade standard as or other F-16s, an/apg-68v 9 and other block-52 avionics?

 

[Munir]

Looking at the number of bought MLU kits...

 

[Bilal.]

Looking at the number of bought MLU kits...

That would leave us with 2 spare kits... Wonder what we'll do with those...

 

[Munir]

Handy when a few are no longer working as expected. Spares. Or wait to get two more block15... I think we will see two more ot they are already in those "13"...

 

[VCheng]

Munir.
Then why do you think PAF bought them. I am only asking because if what you are saying is the truth(and I have no reason to state otherwise) it does not make any sense to buy planes which are likely to become a liability and a danger for our pilots. And I honestly dont know the answer. Even as a deal it is not meaty enough for someone to make money out of it. Help appreciated.
Araz

It is not just price as is being mention by Munir above. It takes a fair mind to concede that even these old F-16s offer better performance than the new JF-17s in most parameters. The pricing is only icing on the cake.