Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[Donatello]

Whatever the case, JF-17 needs to be inducted in PAF first and foremost. We don't have a full infrastructure for it in Pakistan, we don't have enough pilots since F-16s have too increased in number, how are we suppose to sell and offer support to foreign customers of JF-17? Selling is one thing, but providing technical support for million dollar jets is another ball game. Let's say Zimbabwe bought JF-17, what kind of support would PAF offer? It is already stretched thin in accommodating the jets at home, sending personal to foreign nations would be a mammoth task.

JF-17 should be inducted in PAF. Keep going to airshows, no one is stopping you from doing that. But don't be hell bent on getting orders as of yet. First mature the platform and once nations see the advantage they will automatically come to you.

 

[TOPGUN]

Whatever the case, JF-17 needs to be inducted in PAF first and foremost. We don't have a full infrastructure for it in Pakistan, we don't have enough pilots since F-16s have too increased in number, how are we suppose to sell and offer support to foreign customers of JF-17? Selling is one thing, but providing technical support for million dollar jets is another ball game. Let's say Zimbabwe bought JF-17, what kind of support would PAF offer? It is already stretched thin in accommodating the jets at home, sending personal to foreign nations would be a mammoth task.

JF-17 should be inducted in PAF. Keep going to airshows, no one is stopping you from doing that. But don't be hell bent on getting orders as of yet. First mature the platform and once nations see the advantage they will automatically come to you.

I couldn't agree with you more my brother thx for shinning the light ...

 

[Munir]

Araz,
I do not think one makes a good move by buying f16's build in the 80's with less technology then we can produce right now in the form of jf17. I would not mind buying block 52 when you say somehting like high low but this is something ele. At the moment these adf are not near the mlu'ed planes we have. These planes have been used in adf roles by usaf and jordan. Looking at the planes i would not be that happy as many others. And i have been writing a long time ago about the status of jordanian f16's... So there is no 180 or 360. I am consistent. So where is the high in these 30+ years old f16's with only adf upgrade? Even if upgraded to mlu5 then just tell me if it was worth the costs.

Donatello writes it perfectly. Stick to your plane. Improve it. Now you beg for half a squadron rusted shit and expects others to believe they should go for lo that you skipped! That sounds illogical to me.


I am glad we agree about who should market the jf17...

 

[Donatello]

Araz,
I do not think one makes a good move by buying f16's build in the 80's with less technology then we can produce right now in the form of jf17. I would not mind buying block 52 when you say somehting like high low but this is something ele. At the moment these adf are not near the mlu'ed planes we have. These planes have been used in adf roles by usaf and jordan. Looking at the planes i would not be that happy as many others. And i have been writing a long time ago about the status of jordanian f16's... So there is no 180 or 360. I am consistent. So where is the high in these 30+ years old f16's with only adf upgrade? Even if upgraded to mlu5 then just tell me if it was worth the costs.

Donatello writes it perfectly. Stick to your plane. Improve it. Now you beg for half a squadron rusted shit and expects others to believe they should go for lo that you skipped! That sounds illogical to me.


I am glad we agree about who should market the jf17...

How good is current JF-17 compared to these F-16 ADFs, in your opinion?

 

[VCheng]

Donatello writes it perfectly. Stick to your plane. Improve it. Now you beg for half a squadron rusted shit and expects others to believe they should go for lo that you skipped! That sounds illogical to me.

Illogical? Not if you consider the possibility that the JF-17 was over-hyped and not as good as this "rusted shit".

 

[elitepilot09]

Listen, fact of the matter is that potential customers will see Pakistan's acquisition of these old F-16's as a big negative in terms of Pakistan's satisfaction with the JF-17. You can certainly argue that the ADFs were just a stop-gap measure employed by the PAF to get the Thunder up to speed.

On another note, before Pakistan keeps forcing the JF-17 down the throats of its potential customers, it should mature the platform and incorporate some of the basics which Air Forces around the world now look for... ie. 2 seat version, aerial refuelling capability, advanced EW suite, 9 instead of 7 hardpoints, a larger combat radius etc. (some of these are going to be introduced in the block 2 and 3 configurations)

As far as I'm concerned, the PAF shed the light on the JF-17 too damn early. It should have only been introduced to defence exhibitions and major presentations around the world this year and once a good number of features which I have underlined above were implemented on to the aircraft. I have a very very strong feeling that these shortcomings are why China hasn't inducted this fighter in its fleet. The resume of this plane would have ben much more convincing, powerful and dangerous once a super power had it actively invovled in its Air Force.

 

[Munir]

Listen, fact of the matter is that potential customers will see Pakistan's acquisition of these old F-16's as a big negative in terms of Pakistan's satisfaction with the JF-17. You can certainly argue that the ADFs were just a stop-gap measure employed by the PAF to get the Thunder up to speed.

On another note, before Pakistan keeps forcing the JF-17 down the throats of its potential customers, it should mature the platform and incorporate some of the basics which Air Forces around the world now look for... ie. 2 seat version, aerial refuelling capability, advanced EW suite, 9 instead of 7 hardpoints, a larger combat radius etc. (some of these are going to be introduced in the block 2 and 3 configurations)

As far as I'm concerned, the PAF shed the light on the JF-17 too damn early. It should have only been introduced to defence exhibitions and major presentations around the world this year and once a good number of features which I have underlined above were implemented on to the aircraft. I have a very very strong feeling that these shortcomings are why China hasn't inducted this fighter in its fleet. The resume of this plane would have ben much more convincing, powerful and dangerous once a super power had it actively invovled in its Air Force.

Your idea is comparable with that sweden would have skipped the a/b version and general dynamics would ave waited till they could sell c/d.. There is time needed to mature.

The issue is a lot more like zardari should have stayed out of this project...

Illogical? Not if you consider the possibility that the JF-17 was over-hyped and not as good as this "rusted shit".

as an engineer i think you are wrong on that

 

[Quwa]

for that to happen they need to give up on america and american weapons.

But dependence on American weapons isn't the actual cause behind the situation, it's a symptom.

If Pakistan was a country with more money with real industrial and technological R&D capabilities, it need not depend on American weapons, it'd develop its own (or in partnership with others). But for that to happen the country needs sincere, visionary and brave leadership. We don't have leadership, we have custodianship.

 

[raazh]

AoA, I dont know why you guys are getting frustrated on the F16 purchase or the lack of JF17 exports. I believe both these planes are in different phases of their life in PAF.

F16 is already a mature plateform and PAF has enough experience to juice it to the max in every role. We have all the relevant training, operations, servicing and support facilities related to this plane embeded in the Force and it is easiest to scale them as the sqds increase. Plus it matches with the PAF vision and strategy to have a 75~100 nos of this Multirole beast and how to use it when the need arises. These new used purchases enchance our fighting capability on Plug and Play basis in real time. Yes, the status of Jordanian F16's could be a question mark but I am sure they will be upgraded asap.

Now JF17 is in a totaly different development/life phase at the moment. It is still undergoing weapons testing, training, operational SOP development, deployment strategies, staff and pilot development etc etc .. a million things to go till PAF is confident to say that YES now we know how to do a XYZ mission with this JF17. This by no way means that JF17 is a dud or does not match our requirements. It just MEANS THAT WE ARE NOT THERE YET WHERE JF17 IS A THUNDEROUS THREAT for enemies. It will take some time before all the weapons are integrated and the rest of the planned upgrades along with training/experience put this plane in a lethal threat zone. I mean how can a modern plane with standoff loads for Air, Ground, Sea and Radition targets not be a threat in every situation ??

 

[nomi007]

 

[Indus Falcon]

Gun Port

 

[VCheng]

as an engineer i think you are wrong on that

Based on what? Technical specifications? Performance? The reality of the JF-17 is far less than the claims, thus far. May be after development it will rise to its hype.

 

[Informant]

Based on what? Technical specifications? Performance? The reality of the JF-17 is far less than the claims, thus far. May be after development it will rise to its hype.

It is everything it is claimed to be and everything we want from it.

 

[VCheng]

It is everything it is claimed to be and everything we want from it.

So says the hype.

What is the comparison with these F-16-ADFs?

 

[Informant]

So says the hype.

What is the comparison with these F-16-ADFs?

I will ask the right people, rest assured according to them the Thunder is more than they could have hoped for.

My amateur opinion is that F-16 has a solid ground crew/infrastructure in place to accommodate them along with pilot officers and the training. ADF F-16s will relieve the other frontline F-16s used in war on terror. Thus with these we achieve more or less a squadron of better prepped jets for the Eastern sector.