Pakistan buys 13 F16 from Jordan

[SQ8]

1000 days=little less than 3 years
JF17 production 50 in 6 years
therefore producing 150 requires 18 years at current production rate, i.e. 6 times the current given number(1000 days)
but since 1000 days is little less than 3 years, i rounded it off to 5 times.

But the first production JF-17 from the factory rolled out at the end of 2009.. so essentially its been closer to 5 years.. and its a ramping production line... which is how even the F-35 was rolled out. Hence the production rate cannot be taken as a constant.
Please refer to article for future reference on the reasons for slow production rate.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81032936/JFT_Article.pdf

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

But the first production JF-17 from the factory rolled out at the end of 2009.. so essentially its been closer to 5 years.. and its a ramping production line... which is how even the F-35 was rolled out. Hence the production rate cannot be taken as a constant.
Please refer to article for future reference on the reasons for slow production rate.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81032936/JFT_Article.pdf

I know, which is why I mentioned "current rate of production"

 

[majesticpankaj]

Its not like we go to showroom and tell the car dealer to give us 18 brand new F-16s.

Acquiring an assets like fighter plane that too from America is alot more difficult task . It involves alot of diplomacy and politics.

Brand new require alot of Dollaahs (which we might not have in spare) so we get what we can in the budget , upgrade it .

What PAF is thinking is get the planes at throw away price , get it upgraded it from TAI at a reasonable cost . This can save us alot of money which we can use to acquire more birds or invest somewhere else.

If it wasnt for money & politics we might be having EF in our inventory . You never know.

But this is how things are and we have survive in these conditions.

I think what PAF did is excellent decision and they did surprised me with this deal , i m also hearing more acquistion of these birds in future (dont want to start any kind of rumour mill so wont get in to details ).

I also believe it is a good decision... but it put a lot of question marks over jf-17 capabilities.... Jordanians have themselves selling it off because they finding it expensive to get it upgraded... still they will remain sanction prone.. no respite from that....

 

[SQ8]

I also believe it is a good decision... but it put a lot of question marks over jf-17 capabilities.... Jordanians have themselves selling it off because they finding it expensive to get it upgraded... still they will remain sanction prone.. no respite from that....

No it doesnt. Two different classes of platforms.

Does the Purchase of the MMRCA effect the status of the Tejas?

 

[majesticpankaj]

No it doesnt. Two different classes of platforms.

Does the Purchase of the MMRCA effect the status of the Tejas?

It does.... the role of Tejas is totally different to that of Rafale... but in air shows .. you are pitching jf-17 against f-16 by saying buy 6 in price of 2 ... and compare it with f-16 advance variants.... both projecting as multi role combat planes....

But what is the rationale to purchase f-16 which are so old and sanctioned prone...
from neutral perspective one can conclude that... f-16 older variants are more efficient and capable than jf-17, because having a local solution you are still purchasing second hand outdated machines...

 

[SQ8]

It does.... the role of Tejas is totally different to that of Rafale... but in air shows .. you are pitching jf-17 against f-16 by saying buy 6 in price of 2 ... and compare it with f-16 advance variants.... both projecting as multi role combat planes....

But what is the rationale to purchase f-16 which are so old and sanctioned prone...
from neutral perspective one can conclude that... f-16 older variants are more efficient and capable than jf-17, because having a local solution you are still purchasing second hand outdated machines...

How is it not the same for the F-16 and JF-17?
I dont know where the pitch was made against the F-16.. could you clarify?.. I see no reference in any recent interview. Without the reference it seems difficult to accept the rest of the post.

 

[majesticpankaj]

How is it not the same for the F-16 and JF-17?
I dont know where the pitch was made against the F-16.. could you clarify?.. I see no reference in any recent interview. Without the reference it seems difficult to accept the rest of the post.

Pakistan offers cut-price JF17 fighter jet at Dubai Air Show
Pakistan offers cut-price JF17 fighter jet at Dubai Air Show – The Express Tribune

 

[SQ8]

Pakistan offers cut-price JF17 fighter jet at Dubai Air Show
Pakistan offers cut-price JF17 fighter jet at Dubai Air Show – The Express Tribune

And yes it is true.. you can get three JF-17 for the current price of the F-16 Block-52. I still do not see where he says its a replacement in capabilities..Moreover, I'd give much more thought to the statement of a PAC official rather than the Minister of Defence. Do you have such a statement from a PAC official??

 

[Irfan Baloch]

but i don't able to understand why are you purchasing outdated second hand stuffs....

these Jets are already MLU's to Block 40 (AM/BM) standard and are at par with majority of our F-16 fleet. not what you repeatedly seem to be suggesting.

your post about the JF-17 production rate and its projection is borderline shocking and funny.

you seem in haste to post your "objections" missing the obvious making it seem like we are buying relics.

. F-16 is a class of its own and one of the most successful fighter in the modern times.
the procurement choices of jets is very pragmatic and doesnt involve pride and taunts of the crowd.

And yes it is true.. you can get three JF-17 for the current price of the F-16 Block-52. I still do not see where he says its a replacement in capabilities..Moreover, I'd give much more thought to the statement of a PAC official rather than the Minister of Defence. Do you have such a statement from a PAC official??

exactly

its the value for money which is being pitched here. JF-17 offers same performance and variety of mission at fraction of the cost. not just off the shelf price but the operational cost.

 

[SQ8]

these Jets are already MLU's to Block 40 (AM/BM) standard and are at par with majority of our F-16 fleet. not what you repeatedly seem to be suggesting.

your post about the JF-17 production rate and its projection is borderline shocking and funny.

you seem in haste to post your "objections" missing the obvious making it seem like we are buying relics.

. F-16 is a class of its own and one of the most successful fighter in the modern times.
the procurement choices of jets is very pragmatic and doesnt involve pride and taunts of the crowd.


exactly

its the value for money which is being pitched here. JF-17 offers same performance and variety of mission at fraction of the cost. not just off the shelf price but the operational cost.

The point is. Fault can all be found when one is INTENT on it. These can be conjured up out of thin air on one line statements.. and semantics.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The point is. Fault can all be found when one is INTENT on it. These can be conjured up out of thin air on one line statements.. and semantics.

true that, well he got us talking and responding to him .. kept the thread going and I was wondering what is keeping this thread going

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The point is. Fault can all be found when one is INTENT on it. These can be conjured up out of thin air on one line statements.. and semantics.

Are these equipped with APG-68(V)9 or APG-68V(5)?

 

[majesticpankaj]

And yes it is true.. you can get three JF-17 for the current price of the F-16 Block-52. I still do not see where he says its a replacement in capabilities..Moreover, I'd give much more thought to the statement of a PAC official rather than the Minister of Defence. Do you have such a statement from a PAC official??

why didn't he says that against f-22...obviously he was projecting it is a competitor to f-16 and advertisement for the buyers who are looking to purchase f-16... for god's sake He is a defence minister of pakistan..please give him some weightage...

these Jets are already MLU's to Block 40 (AM/BM) standard and are at par with majority of our F-16 fleet. not what you repeatedly seem to be suggesting.

your post about the JF-17 production rate and its projection is borderline shocking and funny.

you seem in haste to post your "objections" missing the obvious making it seem like we are buying relics.

. F-16 is a class of its own and one of the most successful fighter in the modern times.
the procurement choices of jets is very pragmatic and doesnt involve pride and taunts of the crowd.


exactly

its the value for money which is being pitched here. JF-17 offers same performance and variety of mission at fraction of the cost. not just off the shelf price but the operational cost.

I never said that it is a bad deal... it is a very good deal for you....
But my question is regarding jf-17....
just read the two parts of your assessment which is contradictory in nature...
one time you are saying that F-16 is one of the best...agreed
and in another line you are saying jf-17 provides the same performance at fraction of a cost...
so why are purchasing second hand f-16 when you can easily go for jf-17 at a fraction of price.. which is a also sanctioned proof ....

 

[alimobin memon]

SU 30 and Rafale are good jets but with HMD f16 is also fierce even against these rafale and SU30. Rafale might be difficult but with SU30 MKI u cant compete with EW and jamming power of F16 MLU's and blk 52+ . with these additional f16's Pak will have good tech fighters like f16 itself and jf17 making a force of 120+ BVR fighters note that remaining mlu updates are no far than 1 or 1.25 years. with 120+ BVR fighters PAF can save its country from any air threat. Note that According to many people Thrust vectoring of any jet does not provide any edge in dog fight. it can dodge missiles but in dog fight with tvc over manuevring also decreases the speed of the jet from some seconds giving enemy good time to lock and fire another missile.

why didn't he says that against f-22...obviously he was projecting it is a competitor to f-16 and advertisement for the buyers who are looking to purchase f-16... for god's sake He is a defence minister of pakistan..please give him some weightage...



I never said that it is a bad deal... it is a very good deal for you....
But my question is regarding jf-17....
just read the two parts of your assessment which is contradictory in nature...
one time you are saying that F-16 is one of the best...agreed
and in another line you are saying jf-17 provides the same performance at fraction of a cost...
so why are purchasing second hand f-16 when you can easily go for jf-17 at a fraction of price.. which is a also sanctioned proof ....

Why are you buying rafale when SU30MKI is pride of the nation ? Its a silly question u ask. in one month u can get good conditioned f16 of size 13 while'st jf17 production of a year is around a squadron that is around 18. These 13 are completely a huge sudden increase in force thats why. it has nothing to do with jf17.

 

[SQ8]

why didn't he says that against f-22...obviously he was projecting it is a competitor to f-16 and advertisement for the buyers who are looking to purchase f-16... for god's sake He is a defence minister of pakistan..please give him some weightage...



I never said that it is a bad deal... it is a very good deal for you....
But my question is regarding jf-17....
just read the two parts of your assessment which is contradictory in nature...
one time you are saying that F-16 is one of the best...agreed
and in another line you are saying jf-17 provides the same performance at fraction of a cost...
so why are purchasing second hand f-16 when you can easily go for jf-17 at a fraction of price.. which is a also sanctioned proof ....

Because the F-16 is what he knows.. and NO obviously he is NOT putting it as a capability competitor to the F-16. A cost competitor perhaps.. but nothing more. I dont give him weightage.. just as I dont give weightage to pointless arguments on one line statements.

and I am going to state this out only once because now you are crossing annoyance levels on a thread where this has already been answered before. The F-16 is a different class of fighter than the JF-17..just as the Rafale is a different fighter than the Tejas.. the F-16 has been operated by the PAF for over 30 years.. therefore the costs of introducing more into the system is minimal. Which is why they are preferred over any J-10 purchase.
The JF-17 has a certain set of capabilities set out for its particular role in the PAF.. which DOES NOT SUPPLANT that of the F-16. Hence your whole argument is based on blowing up semantics to make a hollow point.

If you cannot agree to it.. Dont bother replying in this thread. If you agree to it.. Do not reply either. I have no further answers for you nor do I want this thread filled with thirty arguments of you satisfying yourself over a five word statement.

Thank you.