Pakistan Army's VT-4 Main Battle Tank | Updates & Discussions

[Signalian]

Thank you

VT 4 are great Tank. But Pakistan and China need to come up with a Trophy like system for our Tanks. Pls correct me, if I’m wrong this tank not having a similar system.

Thanks

Can infantry fight alongside a tank with trophy type protection system

 

[kingQamaR]

Can infantry fight alongside a tank with trophy type protection system

The system is disabled if there are infantry or soft skin vehicles around it (at least the pods facing them). From what I read up

 

[kingQamaR]

Iraq was going to get doomed no matter what.

In first gulf war the US army armoured and artillery divisions moved in only when Iraqi air power was completely destroyed. So you have to prioritize your air power. Your conventional deterance is your air power. Once that is gone then no matter how many tanks or whatever type of tanks you have will make not a difference. The enemy's air power will eventually destroy everything on the ground. So when we already have Al-khalid & VT-4 tanks then there is no need for another tank purchase. if we have extra money then go for more 4.5 & 5th gen fighter aircrafts, then loads of other things before you can even think of another tank type. the space technologies are very important (from military & defense perspective). Future belongs to space powers. Space is already being weaponsized. US has a another branch for space power. World is moving to a different direction altogether.

I’m Sorry Bro to say But I think Al Khalid Tank Project is a Big Failure. We spend Decades and Billions on this Project But We Can't take it even 2nd Block. And when we see The 1st Block Performance this is Also Not Up to the mark compare to the modern technologies to meet New Era Requirements. And they were saying that procuring of engines was the problem that's totally nonsense argument. Even the Fighter jets can be shift to another Engines which are much superior
in Technology and complicity.

 

[Tank131]

I’m Sorry Bro to say But I think Al Khalid Tank Project is a Big Failure. We spend Decades and Billions on this Project But We Can't take it even 2nd Block. And when we see The 1st Block Performance this is Also Not Up to the mark compare to the modern technologies to meet New Era Requirements. And they were saying that procuring of engines was the problem that's totally nonsense argument. Even the Fighter jets can be shift to another Engines which are much superior
in Technology and complicity.

The reason most Pakistani efforts to utilize ToT fail is because there is no effort to create an infrastructure of science and engineering to absorb that tech into local industry. Al-khalid could have been a big success but no R&D environment was set up around the local manufacturing, same goes for Agostas and F-22P. There was an effort to change that with JF-17 and Hopefully with Babur Class frigates, but I suspect that will be a mixed bag. No, instead of creating the environment to develop locally sourced systems like radars, engines, turbines, turbfans, Pakistanis say, lets go from assembling 4TH Gen fighter with little to no infrastructure to developing a FGFA on our own with no technologic know how or base to start. All of these endeavors are set up to enrich particular segments of society at the expense of actual development.

 

[arslank03]

Vt4 is medium tank it's good to retire old tank fleet but Pakistan really need Turkish Altay or Korean

too heavy for our operating environment, look at the arjun mess. Will need entire infrastructure overhaul, too costly.

 

[Signalian]

The system is disabled if there are infantry or soft skin vehicles around it (at least the pods facing them). From what I read up

Pakistan Army armoured units deploy in conjunction with infantry if you have seen from exercise pics or videos.

So would this APS be suitable then.

 

[Sayfullah]

Vt4 is medium tank it's good to retire old tank fleet but Pakistan really need Turkish Altay or Korean k2 tank?

VT4 is a good tank but imo Pakistan should have a small elite of heavy weight tanks. A small batch of Altay forming the elite of armoured corps for the hardest missions could be a feasible idea. A fleet small enough that we can sustain them and won’t have much logistical issues but big enough that they can tilt the balance in any area they’re deployed in to our favour. @PanzerKiel @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @arslank03 what would be the feasibility of having a 50-100 elite regiment of Altay’s being the tip of the spear for PA complimenting VT4 and AK1?

Bro, problem is that we are not strong enough to be completely independent. If you want to be independent we have to act like an independent nation, stop dual nationality, or allow it with China, improve the economy, etc.

You can be broke and still have an innovative mentality with leadership qualities.
You don’t need to be a super power. You just need a clear cut strategy and capable men leading the country with direction.
Dual nationality helps a country progress.
China won’t fix our economy. They’re just here to make money even if that means taking whatever at little money we have left already. Fixing our economy is something we must do.
Our previous generations had all these hopes from usa which our generation hopes from China. That’s the issue. Even back then if we had a clear cut strategy and direction we could have used usa to develop our economy. Even rn we can use China to develop our economy. However, they won’t do shit for us. It is us who must make the effort.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

Can infantry fight alongside a tank with trophy type protection system

Yes they absolutely can. In fact, it's arguably less of a hazard for infantry than the ERA on VT-4.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

too heavy for our operating environment, look at the arjun mess. Will need entire infrastructure overhaul, too costly.

Infrastructure isn't a issue since it was upgraded to accommodate VT-4 anyways.

 

[Steppe Wolff]

VT4 is a good tank but imo Pakistan should have a small elite of heavy weight tanks. A small batch of Altay forming the elite of armoured corps for the hardest missions could be a feasible idea. A fleet small enough that we can sustain them and won’t have much logistical issues but big enough that they can tilt the balance in any area they’re deployed in to our favour. @PanzerKiel @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @arslank03 what would be the feasibility of having a 50-100 elite regiment of Altay’s being the tip of the spear for PA complimenting VT4 and AK1?

Logistics feasibility would be an issue. VT4 and AK1 have a commonality of parts, streamlining the process. For present threat environment, they are sufficient. Not like India is fielding better tanks.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Infrastructure isn't a issue since it was upgraded to accommodate VT-4 anyways.

It is most definitely an issue, the weight difference between an AK-1 and a VT-4 is just a few tons, the Atlay is several tons heavier and cannot be used on the equipment and bridges that the VT4 can.

VT4 is a good tank but imo Pakistan should have a small elite of heavy weight tanks. A small batch of Altay forming the elite of armoured corps for the hardest missions could be a feasible idea. A fleet small enough that we can sustain them and won’t have much logistical issues but big enough that they can tilt the balance in any area they’re deployed in to our favour. @PanzerKiel @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @arslank03 what would be the feasibility of having a 50-100 elite regiment of Altay’s being the tip of the spear for PA complimenting VT4 and AK1?


You can be broke and still have an innovative mentality with leadership qualities.
You don’t need to be a super power. You just need a clear cut strategy and capable men leading the country with direction.
Dual nationality helps a country progress.
China won’t fix our economy. They’re just here to make money even if that means taking whatever at little money we have left already. Fixing our economy is something we must do.
Our previous generations had all these hopes from usa which our generation hopes from China. That’s the issue. Even back then if we had a clear cut strategy and direction we could have used usa to develop our economy. Even rn we can use China to develop our economy. However, they won’t do shit for us. It is us who must make the effort.

Wether 50 or 500, we’d need separate stocks of ammo, separate stocks of oil (gun oil, suspension oil, engine oil, gear oil, recoil system oil, steering oil etc), separate training manuals, separate tank crews, separate engineers, separate workshops,separate logistical and support crews, separate bridge layers and so many more things to make such an acquisition. It’s a very poor idea.

A small amount of something doesn’t make it cheap, quite the contrary, having to maintain this entire support system for such a tiny fleet is very expensive.
Nuying in bulk and standardizing is how you reduce costs and increase effectiveness, it is a very basic principle of supply and demand economics. This “tip of the spear” might end up costing the PA far more than its sharpness.

Yes they absolutely can. In fact, it's arguably less of a hazard for infantry than the ERA on VT-4.

Both ERA and APS (ERA more so) are very dangerous for the infantry and infantry is trained to operate around tanks with these systems installed if they’re in service. Hiding behind a tank during a gunfight is a much poorer idea (and is not a real thing) than video games and TV will have you believe, the tank will likely end up running you over as it tries to maneuver because they can’t really see the soldiers in there.

I’m Sorry Bro to say But I think Al Khalid Tank Project is a Big Failure. We spend Decades and Billions on this Project But We Can't take it even 2nd Block. And when we see The 1st Block Performance this is Also Not Up to the mark compare to the modern technologies to meet New Era Requirements. And they were saying that procuring of engines was the problem that's totally nonsense argument. Even the Fighter jets can be shift to another Engines which are much superior
in Technology and complicity.

The program was a failure in the production sense, I agree, not in the development sense. It didn’t get the funding it needed because of the WoT that would have allowed them to produce the planned numbers, if this production had occurred, more blocks would have been possible naturally. The program was not the problem, the rest of the state of the country was.

 

[iLION12345_1]

We would be lucky if we get the first locally made tank by 2026.

Hard to reverse engineer something when the Chinese manuals make little sense, on top of all our own issues.

 

[arslank03]

Hard to reverse engineer something when the Chinese manuals make little sense, on top of all our own issues.

we're probably equally as bad. The Chinese support staff at KSEW regularly threaten to leave and go home because we like to not do things properly lol

 

[Princeps Senatus]

It is most definitely an issue, the weight difference between an AK-1 and a VT-4 is just a few tons, the Atlay is several tons heavier and cannot be used on the equipment and bridges that the VT4 can.

Can't our bridge layers support up to 70 tons now?

 

[TheSolution]

we're probably equally as bad. The Chinese support staff at KSEW regularly threaten to leave and go home because we like to not do things properly lol

There's a huge issue of general incompetence in nearly everywhere in Pakistan

Needs to be fixed at the roots with more expenditure on our education budget with improvements to the overall standard and better training programs for these orgs