Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Sugarcane]

I think if there is chance of ToT than it's good to acquire new technology, otherwise stick to Chinese tools which comes without any strings attached.

 

[Neptune]

Dear Mr. Itel MOD. Neither that words was for Turkey or for your chopper, So you better watch your language.

@WebMaster, @Awesome, @Oscar What kind of MODS we have here ?

didn't you see that ' " ' symbol. Forget my point about it as you didn't get it. If you call your military/defence officials idiots at a public thread in a international forum...I'd doubt about your respect to your country's military/defence as their the skillful personnel about choosing wheter which one, not you or me.

 

[Safriz]

From wiki

TAI/AgustaWestland

A derivative version of the Agusta A129 Mangusta, the T129 is being developed by Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), with AgustaWestland as the primary partner.

So a western company is in the loop and is the originator of the design and must hold major stakes and decision powers.
Same as JF-17 cannot be sold to just about any country by Pakistan,China's consent is required...

 

[wakapdf]

This would be a great deal!!! Thank you our Turkish brothers. WE LOVE YOU!!! cheers!!

 

[Viking 63]

Its high time that PA should go for these attack choppers.. JV is nice but to many components are USA or Nato based...i can many bottlenecks in the future...Chinese versions may be a better option....

 

[Kompromat]

As much as i want to, i don't think we'll get transfer of technology for this copter.

@Hyperion

 

[Hyperion]

He was justified in his remark. Have some respect for our decision makers, I guarantee you that none of them are "idiots". If you do have any valid points to justify the Chinese choppers over the Turkish ones, why not discuss about them - instead of some off the cuff remarks.

Dear Mr. Itel MOD. Neither that words was for Turkey or for your chopper, So you better watch your language.

@WebMaster, @Awesome, @Oscar What kind of MODS we have here ?

Trust me we will get the things that matter the most - ASELSAN (HMCS) + UMTAS + OMTAS & CIRIT. Complete package, I'm not sure of. But we surely can and will get other goodies.

As much as i want to, i don't think we'll get transfer of technology for this copter.

@Hyperion

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

didn't you see that ' " ' symbol. Forget my point about it as you didn't get it. If you call your military/defence officials idiots at a public thread in a international forum...I'd doubt about your respect to your country's military/defence as their the skillful personnel about choosing wheter which one, not you or me.

LOL ... I would love to ask you the same if your military, having bad economy, poke its nose in a deadliest war like WOT just because of International / US pressure.

and for T-129, you said it right that its the only available chopper at NATO standard that Pakistan can have with TOT but we may not have a choice to use EU / US weapons on it except of Turkish made. No EU / US country will provide their weapons to Pakistan because of Chinese factor and Indian pressure (Since Indians are in Western market for long and they know how to play their CRY BABY card, they even used it France for JFT upgrades and succeeded).
Apart from these two factors third and the most experienced factor of ours is the "STRINGS" that are for sure attached to western weapons and we are still experiencing it with the F-16s. I highly doubt that ATAK is completely made in TAI, some or a few avionics / equipments will be US or EU for sure.
I respect Turk-Pak friendship and mutual cooperation in many fields but this wouldn't be a wise decision because future is China not EU / US.
Z-10 is much cheaper, seems more lethal, manuvable and can also come with TOT witn no strings attached, what it lacks is NATO standard which for Pakistan is a trashable thing.

 

[Hyperion]

There is fatal flaw in one of your base assumptions, Turkey matters a way lot more than India to the EU. A way lot more. They may have certain problems with accessions, however, both Turkey and the EU are joined at the hip. Literally.

LOL ... I would love to ask you the same if your military, having bad economy, poke its nose in a deadliest war like WOT just because of International / US pressure.

and for T-129, you said it right that its the only available chopper at NATO standard that Pakistan can have with TOT but we may not have a choice to use EU / US weapons on it except of Turkish made. No EU / US country will provide their weapons to Pakistan because of Chinese factor and Indian pressure (Since Indians are in Western market for long and they know how to play their CRY BABY card, they even used it France for JFT upgrades and succeeded).
Apart from these two factors third and the most experienced factor of ours is the "STRINGS" that are for sure attached to western weapons and we are still experiencing it with the F-16s.
I respect Turk-Pak friendship and mutual cooperation in many fields but this wouldn't be a wise decision because future is China not EU / US.

 

[Safriz]

This would be a great deal!!! Thank you our Turkish brothers. WE LOVE YOU!!! cheers!!

There is no such thing as free lunch..
If your "Turkish Brothers" are doing this deal....It will not be for "Love",there will be money involved and technical collaboration and outsourcing of component manufacturing to Pakistan,where it will be cheap..
So its a give and take. There is no Love story in international relations.

Although like i said,the helicopter is by most part property of Agusta Westland which is a British-Italian Company..TAI wont have the final say in TOT because of Patent rights.

The engine is CTS 800 engines that are co-developed by Honeywell and Rolls-Royce..
If anything the engine will come under USA imposed sanctions which they keep slapping at us now and again...

All Helmet mounted Display systems are manufactured by Aselsan which itself has a ToT from Thales and most patents are property of Thales.Which again is an Anglo-American company and sanctions prone

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

There is fatal flaw in one of your base assumptions, Turkey matters a way lot more than India to the EU. A way lot more. They may have certain problems with accessions, however, both Turkey and the EU are joined at the hip. Literally.

Many people here including me were denying the same fact for France at the time of JFT upgrade deal and yet we were slapped by them to make a history. Its not about the EU actually but the US, who can pressurise its ally to do whatever it want. Have you forgotten the Armed Falco - UAV version, that couldn't go through due to US influence.
China is much safer and reliable compared to any of US - Ally (sorry turk bros but have to say it).

 

[Hyperion]

Trust me yara, Turkey of today can take the heat. Have some faith. China has it's own issues. Let's not get into them.

Many people here including me were denying the same fact for France at the time of JFT upgrade deal and yet we were slapped by them to make a history. Its not about the EU actually but the US, who can pressurise its ally to do whatever it want. Have you forgotten the Armed Falco - UAV version, that couldn't go through due to US influence.
China is much safer and reliable compared to any of US - Ally (sorry turk bros but have to say it).

 

[Safriz]

The only thing that can be ToT to pakistan is the ASELFLIR-300T which is a genuine ASELSAN Product.

 

[Amaa'n]

I don't think there is a need to involve PAF in this deal......army aviation would be more appropriate ..........

anyway a good news.....

You missed the point, those officials were from PAC kamra, so we are looking the possibility of JV, and kamra has the capability, i dont think of any Army run factory with said capabilities.

 

[Safriz]

Many people here including me were denying the same fact for France at the time of JFT upgrade deal and yet we were slapped by them to make a history. Its not about the EU actually but the US, who can pressurise its ally to do whatever it want. Have you forgotten the Armed Falco - UAV version, that couldn't go through due to US influence.
China is much safer and reliable compared to any of US - Ally (sorry turk bros but have to say it).

true...
the engine and avionics will come under sanctions for us...being western products.

A helicopter with no supply of engine spares is as good as dead.....

None of us can ever forget the F-16 chapter of 90s when PAF had to resort to scavenging and Black market for F-16 spares....

You missed the point, those officials were from PAC kamra, so we are looking the possibility of JV, and kamra has the capability, i dont think of any Army run factory with said capabilities.

Hmmm.
good point..
then i guess we will see some component manufacturing outsourced to PAC Kamra....
they are already manufacturing electrical (not electronics) components for the TAI's UAV.

I wrangle a fiver we will see PAC Kamra manufacturing ASELFLIR-300T or other optronics pretty soon...