Pakistan Army's T-129 ATAK Helicopter Deal | Updates & Discussions.

[Haris Ali2140]

I think the PA gave Turkey the one-year window to see the T629 fly before making another move.

Ultimately, the key here is that Turkey invited Pakistan into the T625, which basically means T629 since there's a commonality of engine, transmission and other parts.

Yes, one cost with the T629 is waiting another 2-3 years for test-flights and qualification, but with the potential upside of an non-ITAR helicopter that matches the T129's hot-and-high capabilities and endurance.

Moreover, I wouldn't discount the co-production aspect. TAI will move onto the ATAK-2, so the T629 would remain as largely an export-only program. If the PAA commits to a sufficient number, TAI itself may invest in Pakistan to set-up a manufacturing and final assembly line (with the engine and critical parts coming from Turkey).

With a new and modern platform, and a local industry base to source and support it, the PAA could stagger the procurement timeline across 10-15 years. So, in other words, it could build-up a fleet of 90-120 helicopters that can freely operate in any environment in Pakistan. In other words, actually match India's attack helicopter forces in numbers and, to an extent, qualitative capability.

Finally, the commonality between the T629 and T625 could make the latter more economical as a replacement for the Huey, Alouette III, Bell 412EPs, etc as they age. The PN at least could work on the T625 as the basis of a new ASW/SAR and lightweight AShW helicopter for its frigates and corvettes.

Do you think HurJet can work as Advanced trainer for PAF???
@cabatli_53

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Do you think HurJet can work as Advanced trainer for PAF???

It was offered, but I think the PAF will ultimately go for the L-15B. It's available today with the exact specifications the PAF had asked for (afterburning engine with air-intercept radar). The L-15B is also a proven and affordable bird thanks to its massive economies-of-scale and use in the PLAAF. The PAF can also use its FT-7PG infrastructure and induct the FTC-2000 instead.

The HurJet is simply too close (in cost) to the JF-17. It makes sense as a LIFT for an air force in NATO because NATO operates even more expensive fighters. However, in the PAF's case, it'd be an issue of redundancy. I think in the end we'll see L-15B or FTC-2000.

 

[cabatli_53]

 

[Balamir]

Can anyone tell me what the current status is?

TAI T129 continues production, but can buy engines for helicopters that it will use. I see making it impossible for the engine to Turkey for the United States in Pakistan. The Pakistan in question will not, albeit another country. Turkey's defense exports increasing their market share due to the loss of both the US and European countries are worried because they do not want to be exporters as well as the defense of Turkey.

Can Pakistan wait for the TEI TS1400 engine? Or is the need for an attack helicopter urgent?

 

[HAIDER]

TAI T129 continues production, but can buy engines for helicopters that it will use. I see making it impossible for the engine to Turkey for the United States in Pakistan. The Pakistan in question will not, albeit another country. Turkey's defense exports increasing their market share due to the loss of both the US and European countries are worried because they do not want to be exporters as well as the defense of Turkey.

Can Pakistan wait for the TEI TS1400 engine? Or is the need for an attack helicopter urgent?

Pakistan will eventually buy T129 , but it need urgently stop gap. Majority Cobra living extended life. Pakistan need to cover 1300 miles of porous border along Afghanistan and attack helicopter is the most effective weapon in that region. Small armed UAV has limitations.

 

[Balamir]

Pakistan will eventually buy T129 , but it need urgently stop gap. Majority Cobra living extended life. Pakistan need to cover 1300 miles of porous border along Afghanistan and attack helicopter is the most effective weapon in that region. Small armed UAV has limitations.

These trials, which will be integrated into the Atak helicopter until the end of TS-1400 and will be subject to trials, are expected to take 1 year. At best, this engine will be ready for mass production within 2 years.

 

[mingle]

PAA for stop gap can induct more MI35 until ATAK 2 get into reality.

 

[HAIDER]

PAA for stop gap can induct more MI35 until ATAK 2 get into reality.

MI35 is for special ops. But, if i am not wrong Cobra is 20 to 30 minutes reaction time.

 

[ali_raza]

things r getting settled with americans
eventually americans will give away engines
zulu r also coming not too far in the future

 

[Pakistan Ka Beta]

TAI T129 continues production, but can buy engines for helicopters that it will use. I see making it impossible for the engine to Turkey for the United States in Pakistan. The Pakistan in question will not, albeit another country. Turkey's defense exports increasing their market share due to the loss of both the US and European countries are worried because they do not want to be exporters as well as the defense of Turkey.

Can Pakistan wait for the TEI TS1400 engine? Or is the need for an attack helicopter urgent?

Pakistan need urgent attack helicopters for Afghanistan border , while India on other hand already received Apache from US , So we need it on both fronts , i don't think Pakistan will wait further . We may see Order for Attack helicopter in June-July or if Covid-19 prevent it from happening then in Nov-Dec 2020 IDEAS exhibition . We in Pakistan are v sad because of 2 Orders got stuck . 1 . AHIZ Viper and 2 . T129 Atak . So China or Russia will get the order i guess if Turkish option not fruitful this year as we have almost nothing . 4 Mi35M are nothing as they are in Special Ops e.t.c role and Cobras are v old and vulnerable .

 

[Kompromat]

Maybe Pakistan should move over to ATAK-2 program for a heavier copter? @cabatli_53

 

[cabatli_53]

Maybe Pakistan should move over to ATAK-2 program for a heavier copter? @cabatli_53

Atak-2 is a heavy attack helicopters and It will take time until Atak-2 get matured. If this was an option, Pakistan must have cancelled the deal but instead, They have postponed the delivery. I believe they are waiting the first flight of ITAR-free Atak called T-629.

 

[Kompromat]

Atak-2 is a heavy attack helicopters and It will take time until Atak-2 get matured. If this was an option, Pakistan must have cancelled the deal but instead, They have postponed the delivery. I believe they are waiting the first flight of ITAR-free Atak called T-629.

What's T-629 and why i haven't heard about it before?

 

[princefaisal]

Pakistan should wait for the T629 and Atak-II helicopters. Meanwhile more 10-15 Mi-35s should be procured

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

What's T-629 and why i haven't heard about it before?

It's basically the T129 ATAK with Turkey's own engine, transmission and other critical parts, but also bigger at 6 tons instead of 5 tons (i.e. more armour, payload, etc).

Will use the same engine and critical parts as the T625, so there's some commonality too. It was announced not too long ago, but will fly this year.

Clearly, Turkey expedited it to deal with the US engine issue.