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Pakistan And India-Water Disputes-News And Updates

Are you sure that Pakistan will be able to fire those missiles and not run to the court? Does Pakistan have the capacity to face the aftermath. Not only militarily but also diplomatically from being the culprit country to launch a missile attack.

Anyway...have a good day..peace and water to both the countries and end to bomb blasts. Lets hope no more innocents are killed by terrorists and there can be peace.

Yes I am sure we can and would fire when you go completely rouge and stop our water. We know the aftermath but it is you who would force us to do so.

And amen to your last paragraph.

I never said assuming, but implicitly yes.
So it is for Pakistan to say and people like you to say "Kashmir is not part of India therefore there is no need for Indus water treaty". It will only absolve and abrogate the treaty but also give India the leeway on abrogating it.

Talk about explicit stuff or else stop posing stupid shit to expose yourself as a moron.

LOL...this is just sad and Pathetic. I DID NOT ask you who BROKERED the treaty.

I asked you Which third party GUARANTEED IT ? WHO is the Guarantor ? WHAT is the Guarantee ? I am still waiting for the reply.

And here is the answer:

Violating a bilateral treaty — with World Bank as a guarantor — will only bring India on back foot,

https://propakistani.pk/2016/09/27/...eaty-can-india-really-block-pakistans-rivers/

And guarantee is that in case of India going rogue it would World Bank that would play its role to resolve this issue. Pakistan has already contacted World Bank telling them that India has gone rogue.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/wor...s-Waters-Treaty/2016/09/27/article3631353.ece

By the way looking at your sad and pathetic reply I am sure you didn't bother to read my post where I quoted an expert. Typical Modi as$ sniffing troll you are. :lol:

We do not have to Revoke the treaty, we just do not have to Honour it :lol:

And where would you store all the water if you won't honor the treaty. iYou don't have any project to store all that water. And it would take years or even decades before you build them.

You are such an as$ clown that i am sure you don't know that all of your projects are run in the river projects. :)

What part of that do you not understand ?

Where you would store all the water? and how you would save your as$ when you would force us to act militarily sending all your investments down the drain?

It is easy considering all the weapons we have in our arsenal. ;)

I think I will just Suspend the IW commission INDEFINITELY. How does that sound ?

That sounds moronic and stupid just like you since it is not practically possible. :lol:

So build goodwill. This is not a suggestion. You have to do it anyways.

We have no need to attack you ..... we are just going to let the IWT die a quite death.

You don't need to??? You can't bitch. That is why you have to resort to cheap facesaving with this drama of IWT.

Oh wait, it just died. Too bad you have not yet realise it.

Where it died??

not in real world. In your lalaland may be. :)

Oh we like to do that, raise a stink so that you are isolated in the global stage. Don't mind it too much.

LOL isolated!!!

Haha. This tells us about your intellect. You are definitely one of those jokers who believe in modi's claim of Pakistani isolation. You are so dumb that you can't even see that is not the truth. :lol:

Cool .... this works for us too. Global warming is a bitch though. :p:

For you may be. Not for us. We would get our share anyhow

I am so glad you love the Modi govt. We love it too.

Don;t know what is your definition of "love" but considering how dumb you are in nature I won't surprised that you take insult and hate as respect and love. :lol:

I especially love it wen you threaten to lug missiles at us : ..... and then quietly back off when actually asked to do so. :D

Obviously we would fire missiles after deciding on this online forum and that too when you are giving us our share and are practically only limited to dreaming about blocking our after. :lol

How dumb can a bharati be?? Oh wait!!! Looking at you one can safely say there is no limit. :D
 
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All of this is bullsh1t because Pakistan can simply say to hell with ecology and environment and begin artificial diversion of glaciers into man made dams which will spell disaster for India and may even desert entire Indian Punjab..true that river passes from India..but most of the glaciers tributing to these rivers surround Pakistan and border China...tinkering at the source would be worst than atomic war on India...

How would that spell disaster for India when India is upstream of dischare of Pakistani glaciers?

Last I studied Physics, water flow from higher elevation to lower. Is there any special kind of Islamic Physics where water from from lower potential to higher potential?

NEW DELHI: Taking the offensive right into the heart of Pakistan, India on Monday reviewed the Indus Water Treaty+ to explore possible ways to use its share of water of rivers flowing into Pakistan.

" Blood and water cannot flow simultaneously+ ," Prime Minister Narendra Modi said on Monday as he chaired a review meeting of 56-year-old Indus Water Treaty during which it was decided that India will "exploit to the maximum" the water of Pakistan-controlled rivers, including Jhelum, as per the water-sharing pact.

The review meeting on the Indus Water Treaty came as India weighed its options to hit back at Pakistan+ in the aftermath of the Uri attack+ that left 18 soldiers dead, triggering demands that the government scrap the water distribution pact to mount pressure on that country.

Here are the three important ways New Delhi plans to use provisions in the Indus Water Treaty to turn the heat on Islamabad:

1. Meetings of 'Permanent Indus Commission' suspended
Official sources said the Indus commissioners will meet only in the absence of terrorism. These commissioners meet about twice a year and have met every year since the treaty was signed, even during the 1965, 1971 and Kargil wars.

Implication

Pakistan at a dead end. Here's how:

* Treaty provides for three-stage grievance redress. Disputes first raised at meetings (two a year). If unresolved, dispute is referred to neutral expert World Bank appoints. If that too fails, sides can apply for arbitration by the UN's court of arbitration

* If the first stage of dispute redressal is suspended, the other two steps cannot kick in. This leads to a dead end for Pakistan


2. Restart Tulbul project

India unilaterally suspended the Tulbul project (Islamabad calls it Wullar Barrage) in 1987 after Pakistan objected. The project was part of the composite dialogue, but the dialogue itself was junked in its earlier form by the Manmohan Singh government. The decision to review the suspension signalled the Modi government's intent to revive it irrespective of Pakistan's protests.
Implication
India gets to control Jhelum water, impact Pakistan agriculture
* Project can create problems for Pakistan's triple-canal project that connects Jhelum-Chenab with Upper Bari Doab Canal
* With a barrage, India controls release of water into Jhelum, which could trigger a flood or drought in Azad Kashmir and Pakistan. Serious implications for agriculture in Pakistan
What reviving the Tulbul Project means
* The Tulbul project is a "navigation lock-cum-control structure" at the mouth of the lake, located on the Jhelum river
* It is a key intra-state channel to ferry state's goods & people. To sustain navigation through the year a minimum depth of water in the lake is necessary
* The idea to ensure year-round navigation along the 20-km stretch from Anantnag to Srinagar and Baramulla, and on the 22 km-stretch between Sopore and Baramulla that becomes non-navigable in winter with water depth of only 2.5 ft
* The project envisages water release from lake to maintain minimum draught of 4.5 feet in Jhelum
* India had started constructing a 439 feet long barrage at the lake's mouth
* Pakistan objected and construction was halted in 1987

3. An inter-ministerial task force

The government set up an inter-ministerial task force to look at India's usage of the waters from the western rivers. According to the treaty, India has unrestricted use of the eastern rivers (Ravi, Beas, Sutlej), but only 20% use of the western rivers. However, India is allowed water from these rivers for "domestic and non-consumptive use, hydropower and agriculture, subject to certain limits".

Implication

India grossly under-utilises its entitlement under the 1960-treaty where it can use all the waters of the Jhelum, Chenab and Indus

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...the-heat-on-Pakistan/articleshow/54544929.cms


At least this is stronger version of "we would not play cricket with you", and if dams and canals are developed could become death of Pakistan.
 
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Five weeks before 26/11, Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafiz Muhammad Saeed delivered a speech that, in retrospect, was the manifesto for the carnage soon to unfold in Mumbai. Fields across Punjab, he said, were turning to dust because of Indian “water terrorism”. Hindu India, he went on, was building dams in Kashmir, to choke Pakistan’s water supplies, and cripple its agriculture. For Pakistan, he prophesied, a moment of decision lay ahead: the “crusaders of the east and west have united in a cohesive onslaught against Muslims”.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, on Monday, heard experts weigh in on abrogating the Indus Waters Treaty — the 1960 agreement that governs how India and Pakistan share the five rivers that flow west through the Punjab. Ever since Pakistan’s nuclear weapons deterred India from going to war in 2001-2002, hawks have been arguing that abrogating the treaty would mount unbearable pressure on Pakistan, forcing it to scale back its proxy war.

Is the plan workable? The simple answer is, no. Legally, abrogating the treaty isn’t workable; strategically, it will demand massive investments for uncertain dividends. Worst of all, it may actually make India’s terror problems worse, not better. From the outset, control of the Indus waters have played a big role in shaping Pakistan’s efforts to seize Kashmir. In his memoirs, Major-General Akbar Khan, the officer who commanded Pakistan’s irregular forces in Kashmir in 1947 noted his country’s “agricultural economy was dependent particularly upon the rivers coming out of Kashmir”. “The Mangla Headworks were actually in Kashmir and the Marala Headworks were within a mile or so of the border. What then would be our position if Kashmir was in Indian hands”?

This still plays on Pakistan’s deepest fears. The day before the Prime Minister’s conference, Saeed held his own meeting on the Indus Treaty with journalists in Lahore. India, he said, was planning to use its dams on the Chenab to flood and choke Pakistan’s lands by turn. Pakistan had to seize Kashmir, he went on to secure its existence. “Potable water will be hard to find within a few years”, he claimed, “there will be no option except war”.

Indian hawks believe disrupting water flows will signal New Delhi’s willingness to impose costs for Pakistan’s use of terror. India, on August 19, 2008, is alleged to have cut the flow of water to Pakistan by 20,000 cubic feet per second, to fill up the Baghliar dam’s reservoir — searing fields across Pakistani Punjab, and provoking Hafiz Saeed’s pre-26/11 speech.

indus1.jpg


Even if India started on a programme to hold back the Indus waters, the dams needed to do so would take decades to build. However, India could use its existing storage to disrupt key parts of the agricultural cycle, or impose urban hardship during the leanest summer months. Abrogating the treaty, the hawks’ argument goes, would signal willingness to do so — and thus prompt rethinking in Pakistan’s strategic establishment.

Perhaps this calculation is true — but the fact is events of 2008 enabled the Lashkar to increase its reach and influence in swathes of Punjab. Pakistan’s first response is likely to be step up the heat on India, by escalating its terror offensive, in the hope India will back off. India would be back facing the conundrum it now does — to risk an economy-threatening war, fought under the shadow of nuclear weapons, or doing nothing. More Story in the link below.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...-solve-india-pakistan-terror-problem-3051481/


Meanwhile in ISLAMABAD: Advisor to the Prime Minister on Foreign Affairs Senator Sartaj Aziz Tuesday said Pakistan would be sharing a comprehensive dossier with P-5 countries and the World Bank on India's threats to revoke the Indus Water Treaty (IWT).

"IWT is an international agreement and India cannot revoke it. But, it can take other measures by misusing certain provisions of the treaty to stop Pakistan's share of water defined in the treaty," he said while speaking in the Senate.

"We shall share the dossier with P-5 countries, World Bank and others asking them to pressurize India to avoid revocation otherwise consequences are very clear," he added.

http://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2016/0...ndus-water-treaty-can-be-taken-as-act-of-war/
 
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He is damn sure in revenge and he meant business .He isnt a usual chalte hai politician in India.
That is our PM @[Bregs]
The urri incident has exposed modi,s impotency. He was considered a superman by Indian who will be different from manmohan. But modi proved to be one big impotent. He is trying every nonsense idea that comes to his mind, after realizing the fact that India can't do any thing to punish Pakistan in military terms.

So such eye wash tactics have been thought out to seduce the local public.

Only if you stop harassing the baluchis and give them independence. Now if only you can let go of your ego.
Hahah. Sorry for stepping on your tail.
Baluchistan is our crown jewel, unlike Kashmir which is burning under Indian barbarism and asking freedom.

Burhan wani zindabad.

At least this is stronger version of "we would not play cricket with you", and if dams and canals are developed could become death of Pakistan.
First do some thing and then do the chest thumping kid.
 
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Only if you stop harassing the baluchis and give them independence. Now if only you can let go of your ego.
Hahaha ... So i was right people like you are dragging india into war ... A bloody one ... Best of luck with your stupid thinking ....
 
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Hahaha ... So i was right people like you are dragging india into war ... A bloody one ... Best of luck with your stupid thinking ....

I was only replying to your question. When did I mention 'war' ? :cheesy:

Let us know when you feel thirsty.

Hahah. Sorry for stepping on your tail.
Baluchistan is our crown jewel, unlike Kashmir which is burning under Indian barbarism and asking freedom.

Burhan wani zindabad.

First do some thing and then do the chest thumping kid.

So what you are saying is that you will continue to torture and kill Baluchis. Oh well, don't say I din't try.
 
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Never though cancelling this was such a huge thing .... looking at the PDF response from the order side :-), This seems to be promising thing to achieve the goals ....

Our even most prominent members here are panicked, I would say Indians were stupid to have not have exercised this option .... So atleast now "Abb ki baar Modi se parishkar"
 
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How would that spell disaster for India when India is upstream of dischare of Pakistani glaciers?

Last I studied Physics, water flow from higher elevation to lower. Is there any special kind of Islamic Physics where water from from lower potential to higher potential?.
Somebody was suggesting that they will do something to glaciers which is the source of water..so they hold the cards :haha:
 
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Instead of resorting to mere words why dont we look at the facts. Brahmaputra flows only in the NE part of the country. Any shortage of water in brahmaputra will only affect NE not entire India. This might lead to at small drop in agricultural output. But again NE being far from hinterland , it is expensive to sell or transport agri goods.

Most of the agriculture activity in India happens in punjab,ganges plains and down south. Here is the river map do tell how turning of the tap on brahmaputra is going to affect India in a big way ?

india-rivers-map.jpg



You what? o_O
What do you mean "mere words", I've linked Indian strategic experts here, Indian media, if you choose to ignore all this, that's fine, the bottom line is, it's not just my words.
So you talk of facts, yes let's do that.

The Brahmaputra In India, it accounts for nearly 30% of the total water resources.
It accounts for 40% of the total hydropower potential of India.
It's river basin is relied upon by 300 million Indians.

p2_75_lg_353785.gif


Any disruption would be dreadful.

I like how you ignored the rest of my post.
Punjab, have you forgotten the river Sultej? Where does that come from? I suppose that to is not important. That feeds your breadbasket!
Look at what the Chinese have started here;



BEIJING: China on Friday said it was building a small hydro-electric station on Sutlej river in Tibet to meet the electricity needs of the local population.

“In order to satisfy the electricity needs of the local population, the Chinese side has built a small-scale hydro-electric station on the Sutlej River at Zada county recently,” the spokesperson of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs said when asked to comment on reports on the facility on Sutlej.

“I can’t understand the (Indian) media reports,” the spokesperson said, referring to the reports which claimed the Chinese barrage on Sutlej may block water to India.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-china-defends-dam-on-sutlej-1040220





The Chinese have the Ghagara river, a major tributary of the Ganga, the mother of all rivers in India, and lifeline to scores.
They have control of the Arun, which in turn feeds into the Kosi, which also joins the Ganga.
They have the Gandak, which flows into India.

The regions effected will be Bihar, Utter Pradesh, West Bengal and Punjab.
I don't understand where this bravado comes from, regarding using water as weapon. In reference to the map you put up, India is a lower riparian state.

india-rivers-map.jpg


If you go down this path, your clock will be punched. Here is another article to put things in perspective for you, but hey I guess you will probably dismiss as "mere words".



http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...mmentary/chinas-freshwater-grab/#.V-rO0m80oVs


NEW DELHI – Just as China is working to change the territorial or maritime status quo from the western Himalayas to the East China Sea, its dam-building frenzy is designed to appropriate internationally shared water resources. Beijing is seeking to present a fait accompli to its downstream neighbors by quietly building dams on the transnational Amur, Arun, Brahmaputra, Illy, Irtysh, Mekong and Salween rivers.

In the latest development, Beijing has announced that it has completed — ahead of schedule — the world’s highest-elevation dam at Zangmu, Tibet. It said that all six power-generating units of the $1.6 billion project on River Brahmaputra have become fully operational.

China is now racing to complete several additional dams located in close proximity to each other on that river. This cascade of dams is likely to affect the quality and quantity of downstream flows into India and Bangladesh.

Only five rivers in the world carry more water than the Brahmaputra and only one — China’s Yellow River — carries more silt. The Brahmaputra is the world’s highest-altitude river. It represents a unique fluvial ecosystem largely due to the heavy load of high-quality nutrient-rich silt it carries from forbidding Himalayan heights.

The Brahmaputra’s annual flooding cycle helps fertilize overworked soils in northeast India’s Assam plains and large parts of Bangladesh, where the river is the biggest source of water supply. The silt-movement impediment by China’s upstream dam projects constitutes a bigger threat to the biophysical vitality of the river and downstream plains than even diminution of cross-border flows.

Several factors have whetted China’s drive to increasingly tap the resources of international rivers, including an officially drawn link between water and national security, the country’s emergence as the global center of dam building, the state-run hydropower industry’s growing clout and the rise of water nationalism at a time of increasing water stress in the northern Chinese plains. With dam building reaching virtual saturation levels in the ethnic Han heartland, the hydro-engineering focus has shifted to minority homelands, from where rivers flow to other countries.

China’s centralized, mega-project-driven approach to water resources has turned it into the world’s most dam-dotted country. This approach is the antithesis of the policy line in India, where water is a state (not federal) subject under the Constitution and where anti-dam nongovernmental organizations are powerful. India’s Narmada Dam project, which remains incomplete decades after its construction began, symbolizes the power of NGOs.

The largest dam India has built since its independence — the 2,000-megawatt Tehri Dam on River Bhagirathi — pales in comparison to China’s giant projects, such as the 22,500-megawatt Three Gorges Dam and the new mega-dams on the Mekong River like Xiaowan, which dwarfs Paris’s Eiffel Tower in height, and Nuozhadu, which boasts a 190-sq.-km reservoir.

The water situation in India, however, is far worse than in China. China’s population is just marginally larger than India’s, but its internally renewable water resources (2,813 billion cubic meters per year) are almost twice as large as India’s. In aggregate water availability, including external inflows (which are sizable in India’s case), China boasts virtually 50 percent larger resources than India.

India’s surface-water storage capacity — an important measure of any nation’s ability to deal with drought or seasonal imbalances in water availability — is one of the world’s lowest. Amounting to 200 cubic meters per head per year, it is more than 11 times lower than China’s. The 2030 Water Resources Group, an international unit, has warned that India is likely to face a 50 percent deficit between water demand and supply by 2030.

Yet, even as China’s dam builders target rivers flowing to India, including the Brahmaputra, Indus, Sutlej and Arun (Kosi), New Delhi has failed to evolve a strategic, long-term approach to the country’s pressing water challenges. In fact, no country faces a bigger challenge than India from China’s throttlehold on the headwaters of Asia’s major transnational rivers and from its growing capability to be the upstream controller by re-engineering trans-boundary flows through dams.

New Delhi has to brace for China moving its dam building from the upper and middle reaches to the lower, border-hugging sections of the rivers flowing to India. The Brahmaputra is particularly a magnet for China’s dam builders because this river’s cross-border annual discharge of 165.4 billion cubic meters into India is greater than the combined trans-boundary flows of the key rivers running from Chinese territory to Southeast Asia. China is expected to embark on Mekong-style mega-dams as it gradually moves its dam building on the Brahmaputra to the area where the river takes a horseshoe bend to enter India, forming the world’s longest and steepest canyon in the process.

To be sure, China’s riparian dominance poses a wider challenge in Asia as it remains impervious to the interests of downstream states and to international norms. Backed by its political control over water-rich minority homelands and by its rapid expansion of upstream hydro-engineering infrastructure, China’s riparian ascendancy is creating a tense and potentially conflict-laden situation where water allocations to co-riparian states in the future could become a function of its political fiat. Indeed, Beijing pays little heed to the interests of even friendly countries, as illustrated by its heavy upstream damming of the Mekong and Salween — Southeast Asia’s largest rivers.

The situation serves as a reminder that power equations are central to riparian relations. If upstream actions are undertaken by a power armed with superior military and economic capabilities and geopolitical influence, the lower riparian state can do little more than protest, unless a water-sharing agreement between the two countries provides for international adjudication or arbitration at the request of one side.

China, however, has refused to enter into a water-sharing arrangement with any co-riparian nation, even though its control over the Tibetan plateau (the starting place of major international rivers) and Xinjiang (the source of the transnational Irtysh and Ili rivers) has armed it with unparalleled hydro-hegemony. Such refusal means it can persist with its frenetic construction of upstream dams, barrages, reservoirs and irrigation systems on international rivers flowing to Central, South and Southeast Asia and to Russia.

By contrast, treaties, agreements or arrangements relating to major shared rivers govern relations between riparian neighbors in South, Southeast and Central Asia.

A balance between rights and obligations is at the heart of how to achieve harmonious, rules-based relations on water-resource issues. Transparency, collaboration and sharing are the building blocks of water peace. China’s unilateralist course on shared freshwater resources, however, indicates that — as in the South China Sea — it wants and insists on getting its own way.
 
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Somebody was suggesting that they will do something to glaciers which is the source of water..so they hold the cards :haha:
I also read a thread asking China to divert waters entering from Tibet to India to Pakistan.
 
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And here is the answer:

And guarantee is that in case of India going rogue it would World Bank that would play its role to resolve this issue. Pakistan has already contacted World Bank telling them that India has gone rogue.

By the way looking at your sad and pathetic reply I am sure you didn't bother to read my post where I quoted an expert. Typical Modi as$ sniffing troll you are. :lol:


LOL... what kind of rubbish is this ?

Just because you call somebody "daddy" , they do not become your daddy.

Just because you ran to World Bank for 'help' , that does not mean they have any locus standi in this case.

This is what the Article IX of the IWT say, (Settlement of Differences and Disputes)

Step 1. Issue to be examined by the Indus Water commission (this has been indefinitely suspended)

Step 2. COMMISSION shall approach a 'Neutral expert' to examine the findings of the commission.
(But since this has been suspended, the whole dispute mechanism is suspended)

Step 3: COMMISSION will invite both govt. to settle the matter

Step 4: Approach Court of Arbitration ONLY after Step 1, 2 & 3 has failed.

So the fact remains, there IS NO third party Guarantor.

Even the Arbitration can be approached ONLY after the commission has met and submitted its report. (But the comission itself has been suspended indefinitely :P )


And where would you store all the water if you won't honor the treaty. iYou don't have any project to store all that water. And it would take years or even decades before you build them.
You are such an as$ clown that i am sure you don't know that all of your projects are run in the river projects. :)

Where you would store all the water? and how you would save your as$ when you would force us to act militarily sending all your investments down the drain?

It is easy considering all the weapons we have in our arsenal. ;)



LOL...... why would we need to "store" them ? We would just DIVERT them. All it needs is a canal or a pipe to drain the water into another river system.

The only thing a missile can do to a canal is make it deeper :lol:


That sounds moronic and stupid just like you since it is not practically possible. :lol:
So build goodwill. This is not a suggestion. You have to do it anyways.
You don't need to??? You can't bitch. That is why you have to resort to cheap facesaving with this drama of IWT.
Where it died??
not in real world. In your lalaland may be. :)
LOL isolated!!!
Haha. This tells us about your intellect. You are definitely one of those jokers who believe in modi's claim of Pakistani isolation. You are so dumb that you can't even see that is not the truth. :lol:
For you may be. Not for us. We would get our share anyhow

Rest of your post is just trash talk, so I will consolidate my reply.

1. We have no plans to extend any good will. For now the IWT has died a silent death.

2. The IWT died the day we decided to suspend the Indus Water commission indefinitely. You are just not smart enough to realise that.
 
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These are all just pressure tactics. India or Modi will never dare to do anything which will lead to war. Pakistan has no option but to pick war if it survival become at risk
 
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You what? o_O
What do you mean "mere words", I've linked Indian strategic experts here, Indian media, if you choose to ignore all this, that's fine, the bottom line is, it's not just my words.
So you talk of facts, yes let's do that.

The Brahmaputra In India, it accounts for nearly 30% of the total water resources.
It accounts for 40% of the total hydropower potential of India.
It's river basin is relied upon by 300 million Indians.

p2_75_lg_353785.gif


Any disruption would be dreadful.

I like how you ignored the rest of my post.
Punjab, have you forgotten the river Sultej? Where does that come from? I suppose that to is not important. That feeds your breadbasket!
Look at what the Chinese have started here;



BEIJING: China on Friday said it was building a small hydro-electric station on Sutlej river in Tibet to meet the electricity needs of the local population.

“In order to satisfy the electricity needs of the local population, the Chinese side has built a small-scale hydro-electric station on the Sutlej River at Zada county recently,” the spokesperson of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs said when asked to comment on reports on the facility on Sutlej.

“I can’t understand the (Indian) media reports,” the spokesperson said, referring to the reports which claimed the Chinese barrage on Sutlej may block water to India.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report-china-defends-dam-on-sutlej-1040220





The Chinese have the Ghagara river, a major tributary of the Ganga, the mother of all rivers in India, and lifeline to scores.
They have control of the Arun, which in turn feeds into the Kosi, which also joins the Ganga.
They have the Gandak, which flows into India.

The regions effected will be Bihar, Utter Pradesh, West Bengal and Punjab.
I don't understand where this bravado comes from, regarding using water as weapon. In reference to the map you put up, India is a lower riparian state.

india-rivers-map.jpg


If you go down this path, your clock will be punched. Here is another article to put things in perspective for you, but hey I guess you will probably dismiss as "mere words".



http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...mmentary/chinas-freshwater-grab/#.V-rO0m80oVs


NEW DELHI – Just as China is working to change the territorial or maritime status quo from the western Himalayas to the East China Sea, its dam-building frenzy is designed to appropriate internationally shared water resources. Beijing is seeking to present a fait accompli to its downstream neighbors by quietly building dams on the transnational Amur, Arun, Brahmaputra, Illy, Irtysh, Mekong and Salween rivers.

In the latest development, Beijing has announced that it has completed — ahead of schedule — the world’s highest-elevation dam at Zangmu, Tibet. It said that all six power-generating units of the $1.6 billion project on River Brahmaputra have become fully operational.

China is now racing to complete several additional dams located in close proximity to each other on that river. This cascade of dams is likely to affect the quality and quantity of downstream flows into India and Bangladesh.

Only five rivers in the world carry more water than the Brahmaputra and only one — China’s Yellow River — carries more silt. The Brahmaputra is the world’s highest-altitude river. It represents a unique fluvial ecosystem largely due to the heavy load of high-quality nutrient-rich silt it carries from forbidding Himalayan heights.

The Brahmaputra’s annual flooding cycle helps fertilize overworked soils in northeast India’s Assam plains and large parts of Bangladesh, where the river is the biggest source of water supply. The silt-movement impediment by China’s upstream dam projects constitutes a bigger threat to the biophysical vitality of the river and downstream plains than even diminution of cross-border flows.

Several factors have whetted China’s drive to increasingly tap the resources of international rivers, including an officially drawn link between water and national security, the country’s emergence as the global center of dam building, the state-run hydropower industry’s growing clout and the rise of water nationalism at a time of increasing water stress in the northern Chinese plains. With dam building reaching virtual saturation levels in the ethnic Han heartland, the hydro-engineering focus has shifted to minority homelands, from where rivers flow to other countries.

China’s centralized, mega-project-driven approach to water resources has turned it into the world’s most dam-dotted country. This approach is the antithesis of the policy line in India, where water is a state (not federal) subject under the Constitution and where anti-dam nongovernmental organizations are powerful. India’s Narmada Dam project, which remains incomplete decades after its construction began, symbolizes the power of NGOs.

The largest dam India has built since its independence — the 2,000-megawatt Tehri Dam on River Bhagirathi — pales in comparison to China’s giant projects, such as the 22,500-megawatt Three Gorges Dam and the new mega-dams on the Mekong River like Xiaowan, which dwarfs Paris’s Eiffel Tower in height, and Nuozhadu, which boasts a 190-sq.-km reservoir.

The water situation in India, however, is far worse than in China. China’s population is just marginally larger than India’s, but its internally renewable water resources (2,813 billion cubic meters per year) are almost twice as large as India’s. In aggregate water availability, including external inflows (which are sizable in India’s case), China boasts virtually 50 percent larger resources than India.

India’s surface-water storage capacity — an important measure of any nation’s ability to deal with drought or seasonal imbalances in water availability — is one of the world’s lowest. Amounting to 200 cubic meters per head per year, it is more than 11 times lower than China’s. The 2030 Water Resources Group, an international unit, has warned that India is likely to face a 50 percent deficit between water demand and supply by 2030.

Yet, even as China’s dam builders target rivers flowing to India, including the Brahmaputra, Indus, Sutlej and Arun (Kosi), New Delhi has failed to evolve a strategic, long-term approach to the country’s pressing water challenges. In fact, no country faces a bigger challenge than India from China’s throttlehold on the headwaters of Asia’s major transnational rivers and from its growing capability to be the upstream controller by re-engineering trans-boundary flows through dams.

New Delhi has to brace for China moving its dam building from the upper and middle reaches to the lower, border-hugging sections of the rivers flowing to India. The Brahmaputra is particularly a magnet for China’s dam builders because this river’s cross-border annual discharge of 165.4 billion cubic meters into India is greater than the combined trans-boundary flows of the key rivers running from Chinese territory to Southeast Asia. China is expected to embark on Mekong-style mega-dams as it gradually moves its dam building on the Brahmaputra to the area where the river takes a horseshoe bend to enter India, forming the world’s longest and steepest canyon in the process.

To be sure, China’s riparian dominance poses a wider challenge in Asia as it remains impervious to the interests of downstream states and to international norms. Backed by its political control over water-rich minority homelands and by its rapid expansion of upstream hydro-engineering infrastructure, China’s riparian ascendancy is creating a tense and potentially conflict-laden situation where water allocations to co-riparian states in the future could become a function of its political fiat. Indeed, Beijing pays little heed to the interests of even friendly countries, as illustrated by its heavy upstream damming of the Mekong and Salween — Southeast Asia’s largest rivers.

The situation serves as a reminder that power equations are central to riparian relations. If upstream actions are undertaken by a power armed with superior military and economic capabilities and geopolitical influence, the lower riparian state can do little more than protest, unless a water-sharing agreement between the two countries provides for international adjudication or arbitration at the request of one side.

China, however, has refused to enter into a water-sharing arrangement with any co-riparian nation, even though its control over the Tibetan plateau (the starting place of major international rivers) and Xinjiang (the source of the transnational Irtysh and Ili rivers) has armed it with unparalleled hydro-hegemony. Such refusal means it can persist with its frenetic construction of upstream dams, barrages, reservoirs and irrigation systems on international rivers flowing to Central, South and Southeast Asia and to Russia.

By contrast, treaties, agreements or arrangements relating to major shared rivers govern relations between riparian neighbors in South, Southeast and Central Asia.

A balance between rights and obligations is at the heart of how to achieve harmonious, rules-based relations on water-resource issues. Transparency, collaboration and sharing are the building blocks of water peace. China’s unilateralist course on shared freshwater resources, however, indicates that — as in the South China Sea — it wants and insists on getting its own way.

No one steals Pak Waters, my brother. This is a red line that none shall cross.

Reason of yorus against the delusional of hollow grandeur are like wrists smashing against the rocks...

Our energies must be directed for creation of a revival of Civilisation and improvement of human condition.

Should these sper heros of ever going-to-be-supoer-power had any humanity then they would see the cinycal exploitation of their masses by the upper classes of oligarchs...


hindia sorry india can not be what it is not. No amount of brovado or fake history can change that.

Ask who has the Momentum of Life?

You shall see that the Momentum of life is in the Land of the Dragon and the Land of the Dancing Horse.

So, yes, let us not cat peals before the swine... let us build our World. Let us revive our Civilisation.

Your Reason is lost upon the minds of delusional souls..

Compassion and forebearance...
 
.
Deny Pakistan it's water, let's do this, oh wait a minute....:cry:

Water weapon cuts both ways
- China factor in Indus card



Sept. 23: China is quietly signalling India that any abrogation of the Indus Waters Treaty to punish its all-weather friend Pakistan will have consequences for this country as well.

Beijing's view is that once the treaty is abrogated, it will be under no obligation to allow water from the Indus or Sutlej rivers to flow into India.

Indus, the largest of the six rivers covered by the 1960 treaty, originates in China, which has eight per cent of the Indus river basin of 1.12 million square kilometres that runs through India and Pakistan as well. The fountainhead of this river basin lies in China.


If China decides to divert water from the Indus river in the absence of any international treaty governing the management of this precious resource, India will be deprived of 36 per cent of the river's entire flow.

Add to that Pakistan's share of 63 per cent entitlement and the nightmare consequence of abrogating the treaty would be a devastated wasteland in the sub-continent spread far and wide across 3,200 kilometres covered by the river's flow from the Tibetan plateau to Karachi where the Indus discharges its water into the Arabian Sea.

Any Chinese action to pay back India for punishing Pakistan by using water as a weapon has the further potential to dry up 27 of this river's tributaries, many of which sustain India's agrarian and commercial life line.

Countless canals from which cities and towns draw water for daily use would dry up, causing urban and semi-urban distress.

The Sutlej originates in Tibet in what Indians know as Rakshas Tal, a huge lake which the Chinese call La'áng Cuò. It enters India through the border post of Shipki La and flows into Himachal Pradesh, also eventually emptying itself into the Arabian Sea off Karachi city.

If China decides to shut off water from Tibet that feeds the Sutlej river, huge swathes of north India would be plunged into darkness and deprived of power: water from this river flows into the Bhakra dam, the Karcham Wangtoo hydro-electric project and the Nathpa Jhakri dam which together generate at least 3,600 megawatts of electricity which lights up large parts of Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Himachal Pradesh, Chandigarh and Delhi.

Since China is not a party to the Indus Water Treaty - of which the World Bank is the guardian in a manner of speaking - Beijing has not initiated any formal diplomatic moves in response to the ongoing debate in India, including comments by the external affairs ministry raising question marks about the treaty's continued implementation.

No demarches, no note verbale, no formal discussions backed up by any aide memoire.

Instead a subtle message is being transmitted through Indian visitors to China who have access to decision-makers there, comments at think-tanks which are sworn to confidentiality, cocktail conversations by Chinese diplomats in capitals like New Delhi and Washington in addition to the UN in New York during the ongoing General Assembly season.

Such a modus operandi, now practised by both India and China, has become commonplace since relations with China nosedived in the second year of Narendra Modi's prime ministership. Both sides now invoke third parties to convey messages to each other in the absence of mutual trust between official interlocutors.

This writer was at two separate events recently where a top-level Indian official, at one programme, and a high-level Chinese official, at another, conveyed messages to each other through third parties.

Sworn to secrecy, the participants, including this writer, are handicapped from discussing in public details of these important interactions.

This is a far cry from the 1990s when a Chinese ambassador would drop by and have a frank, unrecorded talk with the joint secretary in the external affairs ministry in charge of China, in this instance Shiv Shankar Menon, whose feel for China as someone who grew up there is legendary.

A Chinese water war against India to dissuade New Delhi from denying water to Pakistan with devastating consequences will not be easy, however for India, Pakistan or China.

Stopping water supplies to Pakistan after any abrogation of the Indus Water Treaty would flood extensive areas of Jammu and Kashmir and Punjab.

Similarly, China faces a huge risk of inundation of large areas of Tibet if it stops the Indus river or the Sutlej from flowing into India.

But the Chinese have long experience of diverting rivers bigger than either of the China-origin ones covered by the Indus Water Treaty.

These risks may have prevented all concerned in the last 59 years from scrapping the treaty whatever may have been the temptation to do so.

India runs the risk of alienating the World Bank if it abrogates the treaty. It is not well known that the US, the UK, Canada, (then) West Germany, Australia and New Zealand underwrote the facilitation of the treaty by contributing $1 billion (at 1959 rates) and virtually bribed Pakistan by giving it $315 million to enter into negotiations with India.



http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160924/jsp/frontpage/story_109996.jsp#.V-rOHW80oVs

No one steals Pak Waters, my brother. This is a red line that none shall cross.

Reason of yorus against the delusional of hollow grandeur are like wrists smashing against the rocks...

Our energies must be directed for creation of a revival of Civilisation and improvement of human condition.

Should these sper heros of ever going-to-be-supoer-power had any humanity then they would see the cinycal exploitation of their masses by the upper classes of oligarchs...


hindia sorry india can not be what it is not. No amount of brovado or fake history can change that.

Ask who has the Momentum of Life?

You shall see that the Momentum of life is in the Land of the Dragon and the Land of the Dancing Horse.

So, yes, let us not cat peals before the swine... let us build our World. Let us revive our Civilisation.

Your Reason is lost upon the minds of delusional souls..

Compassion and forebearance...

Bro, everyone knows all is safe in the hands of a friend, a dragon who has ultimate control over the rivers.....
 
.

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