Pakistan And India-Water Disputes-News And Updates

[Avaraniya]

No one steals Pak Waters, my brother. This is a red line that none shall cross.

Reason of yorus against the delusional of hollow grandeur are like wrists smashing against the rocks...

Our energies must be directed for creation of a revival of Civilisation and improvement of human condition.

Should these sper heros of ever going-to-be-supoer-power had any humanity then they would see the cinycal exploitation of their masses by the upper classes of oligarchs...

hindia sorry india can not be what it is not. No amount of brovado or fake history can change that.

Ask who has the Momentum of Life?

You shall see that the Momentum of life is in the Land of the Dragon and the Land of the Dancing Horse.

So, yes, let us not cat peals before the swine... let us build our World. Let us revive our Civilisation.

Your Reason is lost upon the minds of delusional souls..

Compassion and forebearance...

Cool speech. Good start, weird ending.

Maybe a few pictures of missiles and marching men would have helped to impress the crowd further. Just my humble opinion.

 

[A_Poster]

These are all just pressure tactics. India or Modi will never dare to do anything which will lead to war. Pakistan has no option but to pick war if it survival become at risk

But the problem is that here you would have to attack India and win. India could happily hold its ground and defeat Pakistan without crossing over. As I have said it many times before, in case of Pakistan attacking India, military dynamics are turned onto its head compared to what they would be when India attack Pakistan as you cannot use "we have nukes" here.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Deny Pakistan it's water, let's do this, oh wait a minute....

Water weapon cuts both ways
- China factor in Indus card



Sept. 23: China is quietly signalling India that any abrogation of the Indus Waters Treaty to punish its all-weather friend Pakistan will have consequences for this country as well.

Beijing's view is that once the treaty is abrogated, it will be under no obligation to allow water from the Indus or Sutlej rivers to flow into India.

Indus, the largest of the six rivers covered by the 1960 treaty, originates in China, which has eight per cent of the Indus river basin of 1.12 million square kilometres that runs through India and Pakistan as well. The fountainhead of this river basin lies in China.


If China decides to divert water from the Indus river in the absence of any international treaty governing the management of this precious resource, India will be deprived of 36 per cent of the river's entire flow.

Add to that Pakistan's share of 63 per cent entitlement and the nightmare consequence of abrogating the treaty would be a devastated wasteland in the sub-continent spread far and wide across 3,200 kilometres covered by the river's flow from the Tibetan plateau to Karachi where the Indus discharges its water into the Arabian Sea.

Any Chinese action to pay back India for punishing Pakistan by using water as a weapon has the further potential to dry up 27 of this river's tributaries, many of which sustain India's agrarian and commercial life line.

Countless canals from which cities and towns draw water for daily use would dry up, causing urban and semi-urban distress.

The Sutlej originates in Tibet in what Indians know as Rakshas Tal, a huge lake which the Chinese call La'áng Cuò. It enters India through the border post of Shipki La and flows into Himachal Pradesh, also eventually emptying itself into the Arabian Sea off Karachi city.

If China decides to shut off water from Tibet that feeds the Sutlej river, huge swathes of north India would be plunged into darkness and deprived of power: water from this river flows into the Bhakra dam, the Karcham Wangtoo hydro-electric project and the Nathpa Jhakri dam which together generate at least 3,600 megawatts of electricity which lights up large parts of Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Himachal Pradesh, Chandigarh and Delhi.

Since China is not a party to the Indus Water Treaty - of which the World Bank is the guardian in a manner of speaking - Beijing has not initiated any formal diplomatic moves in response to the ongoing debate in India, including comments by the external affairs ministry raising question marks about the treaty's continued implementation.

No demarches, no note verbale, no formal discussions backed up by any aide memoire.

Instead a subtle message is being transmitted through Indian visitors to China who have access to decision-makers there, comments at think-tanks which are sworn to confidentiality, cocktail conversations by Chinese diplomats in capitals like New Delhi and Washington in addition to the UN in New York during the ongoing General Assembly season.

Such a modus operandi, now practised by both India and China, has become commonplace since relations with China nosedived in the second year of Narendra Modi's prime ministership. Both sides now invoke third parties to convey messages to each other in the absence of mutual trust between official interlocutors.

This writer was at two separate events recently where a top-level Indian official, at one programme, and a high-level Chinese official, at another, conveyed messages to each other through third parties.

Sworn to secrecy, the participants, including this writer, are handicapped from discussing in public details of these important interactions.

This is a far cry from the 1990s when a Chinese ambassador would drop by and have a frank, unrecorded talk with the joint secretary in the external affairs ministry in charge of China, in this instance Shiv Shankar Menon, whose feel for China as someone who grew up there is legendary.

A Chinese water war against India to dissuade New Delhi from denying water to Pakistan with devastating consequences will not be easy, however for India, Pakistan or China.

Stopping water supplies to Pakistan after any abrogation of the Indus Water Treaty would flood extensive areas of Jammu and Kashmir and Punjab.

Similarly, China faces a huge risk of inundation of large areas of Tibet if it stops the Indus river or the Sutlej from flowing into India.

But the Chinese have long experience of diverting rivers bigger than either of the China-origin ones covered by the Indus Water Treaty.

These risks may have prevented all concerned in the last 59 years from scrapping the treaty whatever may have been the temptation to do so.

India runs the risk of alienating the World Bank if it abrogates the treaty. It is not well known that the US, the UK, Canada, (then) West Germany, Australia and New Zealand underwrote the facilitation of the treaty by contributing $1 billion (at 1959 rates) and virtually bribed Pakistan by giving it $315 million to enter into negotiations with India.



http://www.telegraphindia.com/1160924/jsp/frontpage/story_109996.jsp#.V-rOHW80oVs



Bro, everyone knows all is safe in the hands of a friend, a dragon who has ultimate control over the rivers.....

We understand each other! All noise and din of empty pots.. onward we move, a new world we create!

 

[Avaraniya]

These are all just pressure tactics. India or Modi will never dare to do anything which will lead to war. Pakistan has no option but to pick war if it survival become at risk

LOL... Of course these are pressure tactics.

Let us know when you feel the pressure. Our door are always open for Negotiations.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

But the problem is that here you would have to attack India and win. India could happily hold its ground and defeat Pakistan without crossing over. As I have said it many times before, in case of Pakistan attacking India, military dynamics are turned onto its head compared to what they would be when India attack Pakistan as you cannot use "we have nukes" here.

India cannot afford full scale war with Pakistan otherwise it would have done this military adventure long ago to satisfy the egos of Indian jingoists and now all these silly statements are just there to calm down the anger of emotional people who think from heart rather than brain.

India is free to block the water and Pakistan is also free to take appropriate action after this blocking but in any scenario anything that lead to war will bring more economic damage for India than Pakistan so come on do it and let see what happen next. Sanum dobey ghey sath tujhe be le doubein ghey..

 

[A_Poster]

India cannot afford full scale war otherwise it would have done this military adventure long ago to satisfy the egos of Indian jingoists and now all these silly statements are just there to calm down the anger of emotional people who think from heart rather than brain.
India is free to block the water and Pakistan is also free to take appropriate action after this blocking but in any scenario anything lead to war will bring more economic damage for India than Pakistan so come on do it and let see what happen next. Sanum dobey ghey sath tujhe be le doubein ghey..

India could afford a full scale war. It would be good for economy as it would boost savings and consumption, while not having any debilitating effect on economy as India's economic center are far away from border. What India does not want is a war that would go nuclear. If Pakistan attacks India, India could simply hold its ground and destroy Pakistani army while not crossing into Pakistan.

It would be Indian version of "we have atmi bum".

 

[somebozo]

Pakistan can resort to engineering artificial glacier diversion as it borders 2/3rd glaciers which tribute water to indus river system.

This will have dire ecological and environmental consequences but to hell with it when water shortage is a threat for 200 million people..the worst crisis will be Indian Punjab the so called bread basket turning to dessert...this will be worst than launching "atmi bomb" on India...

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

India could afford a full scale war. It would be good for economy as it would boost savings and consumption, while not having any debilitating effect on economy as India's economic center are far away from border. What India does not want is a war that would go nuclear. If Pakistan attacks India, India could simply hold its ground and destroy Pakistani army while not crossing into Pakistan.

It would be Indian version of "we have atmi bum".

then do it ..stop talking talking talking..threatening threatening threatening..it gives this impression " Jo garujte hain wo barustey nhi"

War could go nuclear even if Inda dont want it..Pakistan is not spending on nuclear just for show off lol

 

[somebozo]

India could afford a full scale war. It would be good for economy as it would boost savings and consumption, while not having any debilitating effect on economy as India's economic center are far away from border. What India does not want is a war that would go nuclear. If Pakistan attacks India, India could simply hold its ground and destroy Pakistani army while not crossing into Pakistan.

It would be Indian version of "we have atmi bum".

few missiles in Mumbai, Banglore, Hydrabad and you can kiss good bye to foreign investor confidence..

then do it ..stop talking talking talking..threatening threatening threatening..it gives this impression " Jo garujte hain wo barustey nhi"

War could go nuclear even if Inda dont want it..Pakistan is not spending on nuclear just for show off lol

As mushraff said..shab e barat ma chalana ka lye nahi banie ha...

 

[Indika]

its dam-building frenzy is designed to appropriate internationally shared water resources.

There is a reason for this, according to UN water convention

"Article 7 of the document, entitled, "Obligation not to cause significant harm," requires that member states "in utilizing an international watercourse in their territories ... take all appropriate measures to prevent the causing of significant harm to other watercourse states" and compensate sharing states for any such harm."

Hence the race to build dams, the one who constructs/uses first gets claim over waters. Ironically none of the involved countries china,India & pakistan have ratified the treaty. As such it is free for all.

The Brahmaputra’s annual flooding cycle helps fertilize overworked soils in northeast India’s Assam plains

Yes, only NE but NE is not the bread basket of India. NE receives one of the heaviest rainfalls in India. If you check the record for wettest place is/was held by cherrapunji.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Cherrapunji

Yet, even as China’s dam builders target rivers flowing to India, including the Brahmaputra, Indus, Sutlej and Arun (Kosi), New Delhi has failed to evolve a strategic, long-term approach to the country’s pressing water challenges. In fact, no country faces a bigger challenge than India from China’s throttlehold on the headwaters of Asia’s major transnational rivers and from its growing capability to be the upstream controller by re-engineering trans-boundary flows through dams.

One of the things of himalayan rivers is that these are glacial fed which start out as small rivers and then as tributaries join along the way they become big. Add to that during rainy season heavy rains make the river enormous. Most of the tributaries is along the way in India & nepal. To say china has complete control is nothing but half truth.

Even in the case of pakistan cutting of Indus in himalayas at the head is not going to have any effect. Bcos there will be tributaries along the way which will still contribute enough water. But cutting of the supply in punjab is where it will hurt.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

As mushraff said..shab e barat ma chalana ka lye nahi banie ha...

jiss k pass zyada ho usse dar zyada hota ha sab kuch lose karne ka

 

[Areesh]

LOL... what kind of rubbish is this ?

Just because you call somebody "daddy" , they do not become your daddy.

Just because you ran to World Bank for 'help' , that does not mean they have any locus standi in this case.

This is what the Article IX of the IWT say, (Settlement of Differences and Disputes)

Step 1. Issue to be examined by the Indus Water commission (this has been indefinitely suspended)

Step 2. COMMISSION shall approach a 'Neutral expert' to examine the findings of the commission.
(But since this has been suspended, the whole dispute mechanism is suspended)

Step 3: COMMISSION will invite both govt. to settle the matter

Step 4: Approach Court of Arbitration ONLY after Step 1, 2 & 3 has failed.

So the fact remains, there IS NO third party Guarantor.

Even the Arbitration can be approached ONLY after the commission has met and submitted its report. (But the comission itself has been suspended indefinitely )






LOL...... why would we need to "store" them ? We would just DIVERT them. All it needs is a canal or a pipe to drain the water into another river system.

The only thing a missile can do to a canal is make it deeper




Rest of your post is just trash talk, so I will consolidate my reply.

1. We have no plans to extend any good will. For now the IWT has died a silent death.

2. The IWT died the day we decided to suspend the Indus Water commission indefinitely. You are just not smart enough to realise that.

Well after reading @waz posts and looking at your lack of technical and legal knowledge I don't think it is of any use to debate with you further. You are too dumb and moronic to continue further any debate. Looking at your dumb behavior you are going to be banned one way or the other. Why waste time on such a moron??

Even though your own experts have rejected construction of canals and pipelines to other state terming it non feasible and non practical due to geography and terrain. it is not like laying pipes for sewerage line in the cities.

Anyways you want to block our water???

Go do it. We would continue to support Kashmir freedom movement. We would continue to meddle in IOK when ever we want to. There won't be any change in our Indian and IOK policy.

 

[waz]

There is a reason for this, according to UN water convention

"Article 7 of the document, entitled, "Obligation not to cause significant harm," requires that member states "in utilizing an international watercourse in their territories ... take all appropriate measures to prevent the causing of significant harm to other watercourse states" and compensate sharing states for any such harm."

Hence the race to build dams, the one who constructs/uses first gets claim over waters. Ironically none of the involved countries china,India & pakistan have ratified the treaty. As such it is free for all.


Yes, only NE but NE is not the bread basket of India. NE receives one of the heaviest rainfalls in India. If you check the record for wettest place is/was held by cherrapunji.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Cherrapunji




One of the things of himalayan rivers is that these are glacial fed which start out as small rivers and then as tributaries join along the way they become big. Add to that during rainy season heavy rains make the river enormous. Most of the tributaries is along the way in India & nepal. To say china has complete control is nothing but half truth.

Even in the case of pakistan cutting of Indus in himalayas at the head is not going to have any effect. Bcos there will be tributaries along the way which will still contribute enough water. But cutting of the supply in punjab is where it will hurt.

The same thing over and over again, feel free to engage in water wars. Let's see what happens.

Well after reading @waz posts and looking at your lack of technical and legal knowledge I don't think it is of any use to debate with you further. You are too dumb and moronic to continue further any debate.

Even though your own experts have rejected construction of canals and pipelines to other state terming it non feasible due to geography and terrain. it is not like laying pipes for sewerage line in the cities.

Anyways you want to block our water???

Go do it. We would continue to support Kashmir freedom movement. We would continue to meddle in IOK when ever we want to.

Kar lo jo karna hai. Now f*ck off.

They just keep on coming out with the same stuff.

Indian experts = paid off. We don't believe them.
Chinese ambitions = won't happen, too much trade.
Threat to Indian water = won't effect us, China can't do much.

 

[Areesh]

They just keep on coming out with the same stuff.

Indian experts = paid off. We don't believe them.
Chinese ambitions = won't happen, too much trade.
Threat to Indian water = won't effect us, China can't do much.

Lol tried to explain all the legal and technical facts and follies of this new drama by Modi to these idiots but they keep coming up with same BS that we would block your water and divert it to other states and all that.

In the end, in a typical Karachi wala style I would say:

"Hum to karain gai Kashmiri freedom ko support. Ukhar lo jo ukharna hai"

 

[waz]

Lol tried to explain all the legal and technical facts an follies of this new drama by Modi to these idiots but they keep coming up with same BS that we would block your water and divert it to other states and all that.

In the end, in a typical Karachi wala style I would say:

"Hum to karain gai Kashmiri freedom ko support. Ukhar lo jo ukharna hai"

Let them. I guess Modi will deliver the water like some glorified water boy from football games , once the Chinese get involved.