Pak-Iran gas project

[Hyde]

They listen and they are implementing. Unfortunately, nuclear power plants take as much time as hydel power plants to be set up. Thermal Power Plants can be set up real quick.

There's a slight problem with nuclear power, palm rubbing is far less prevalent because you can't rake bribes within government institutions though (MoWP taking bribes from PAEC, lolz).

thats funny ...... and you are right....... look at the time scale

 

[rangbaaz]

why don't they make some deal with countries like usa, china, or russia?

would it take this long even when we ask them to bring this technology in Pakistan?

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan, Iran sign gasline deal

LAHORE: Pakistan and Iran have signed a final operational agreement on the gas pipeline project in Istanbul, Turkey, a private TV channel reported on Tuesday. Petroleum Secretary Kamran Lashari signed the agreement on behalf of the Pakistani government, according to which the project will be completed by 2013. The two countries signed the Heads of Agreement and certain condition precedents to make the Gas Sales Purchase Agreement (GSPA) effective. The signing of these agreements was required for the flow of Iranian gas into Pakistan. The two countries signed the GSPA on the pipeline project on June 5, 2009 in Istanbul. Under the GSPA, Iran will provide 750 million cubic feet of gas to Pakistan per day for the next 25 years, which will generate 4,000 megawatts of electricity. daily times monitor

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[IceCold]

]Oh well its going to be a very long post and i know nobody is going to read it[/B]
I wanted to talk about Bungi Hydro Power project, Diamer bhasha dam, Dasu dam, Neelum Jhelum hydropower project etc + the temporary solution of our problems but i finished writing here because the length of this post is worrying me and i think nobody is going to read it now

No actually we are still going to read it, quite bit of information and knowledge you have on this field, so please carry on by all means.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Whenever Hydel Power is mentioned, people fail to realize that sedimentation is major concern as Pakistan is facing the second highest rate globally of sedimentation in dams after Philippines. Major dams not only will kill whatever is left of the mangroves in the Sindh delta, they will further reduce the flow of the one magnificent Indus. (the argument of water being wasted does not apply here) Run of the river hydel power projects are more expensive but are far suitable for us. PPIB has long been advocating even more reliance on thermal power stations, which is understandably a very costly solution. Even though, the IP gas pipeline will help us reduce the natural gas shortage that we are facing (and which will increase exponentially), nuclear power is the way forward.

If anybody would like to study how a developing country tackles its electricity demands, South Korea is the best model. They have developed an ingenious nuclear power plant capability and have more than 15000MW of nuclear power installed. Hydel power cannot be relied on forever, especially in our case. We don't have a Three Gorges sitting in front of us. Major dams are existing and a bunch of medium size dams surely can be constructed. Hydel as a primary source of electricity is fascinating to many people who are uneducated in this field.

We seriously need to increase nuclear power generation far beyond what we produce today. And we also need to start offering nuclear power engineering at undergrad level in UET Lahore and NED (them being the biggest).

As for solar and wind, solar is the most expensive of all solutions and Zaki's graph clearly shows that. As for wind, we do not have major windy plains but coastal areas can definitely benefit from it. Even then, wind power would require either relying on foreign companies to bring in their high tech ceramics and wind turbines. Nuclear power FTW !!!

sir, i dont know if there are different "schools of thought" on this matter; i must confess, I am no expert on it. Based on what I know, or what my impressions are:


In the long term, nuclear/solar/wind energy are ideal for a sunny, wind endowed, nuclear armed country like Pakistan. However, every new project (especially ones of these calibre) have teething problems and longer gestation periods.

It will be a long time before we have the required volume on the ground to become cost effective.


The latter two will be only be a part of the solution and not the whole solution.

We must not use coal without first acquiring 'clean coal' technology.

Instead of talking about environment, one should talk about polluting of the atmosphere. Otherwise the opponents of the dams start harping about the environment without understanding certain aspects.

Most of them are worried about degradation of the Indus delta, without realizing that dams do not and cannot contribute to that. They think mistakenly that dams impede river flows. Actually dams improve the environment around the reservoirs rather than damage it, support tourism, fisheries and transportation.

There are of course negative aspects of dams --social and not environmental. Certainly land is lost and people are displaced but that has to be equated with the tremendous benefits to crores of people. Some solution must be used to alleviate any difficulties to our people.

We have concentrated only on energy and not considered the shortage of water. Hydel power is the only renewable source of power (not solar, not wind nor nuclear) which will give us water.

The government has the ultimate responsibility to provide power to industry and water for agriculture, in the best interest of the people, and cannot abdicate it authority to regional forces

No agriculture means falling exports...which means economy operating at sub-par levels...which means fewer jobs...meaning more poverty. And we already know that poverty eradication and other social programs are the key issues in Pakistan that need to be addressed if we are ever to develop


but now i am beginning to digress, and for that, i apologize

 

[ejaz007]

India proposes trilateral talks on IPI gas pipeline

* Officials say Delhi wants Iran to be responsible for safe delivery of gas to India

By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: India has resumed interest in the tri-nation Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) gas pipeline project, proposing trilateral talks in May.

External Affairs Minister SM Krishna, who is
travelling to Tehran later this month, said that India
was engaged in consultations and expects Tehran to address its concerns about pricing and security.

The Indian oil secretary told reporters that New Delhi has proposed dates in May for technical-level talks in Tehran to iron out the issue. India has cold-shouldered the project talks since 2008, blaming Tehran for overlooking its concerns of safe delivery and high prices.

Iran on the other hand suggested a trilateral mechanism, meaning contractual provisions between the three countries to ensure safe delivery of gas to India. Indian officials believe the proposal meant that New Delhi would pay for its share of gas, even if the supplies were to be disrupted in Pakistan.

Security concern: Officials said Tehran
has also been insisting that ownership of gas would be transferred at the Iran-Pakistan border, while New Delhi wants it to be the Pakistan-India border, thereby making Iran explicitly responsible for the safe delivery of gas.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[Hyde]

don't go ahead with India.......... its a complete waste of time now.......... they have already wasted 4-5 years of Pakistan by resuming talks and then not participating in the meetings...........

Lets go ahead alone! and if possible China can join us now.......... india is no longer a trust worthy partner in this project and who knows if they waste another year or so and then back off once again

 

[SAUD-404]

Good news. Congratulations to pakistan and Iran . we rule

 

[pkd]

Pakistan gas pipeline is Iran's lifeline

TEHRAN, March 19 (UPI) -- As Iran braces for another broadside of economic sanctions over its nuclear program, Tehran moves closer to opening up a new lifeline -- a natural gas pipeline to Pakistan and possibly India and China as well.

If everything goes as planned, this much-delayed, controversial project could wreck U.S. efforts to check Iran's expansionist ambitions.

U.S. energy analyst Gal Luft said the pipeline could also "have profound implications for the geopolitics of energy in the 21st century and for the future of South Asia."

Iran and Pakistan signed an agreement for the construction of the 560-mile, $7.5 billion pipeline from the huge offshore South Pars gas field in the Gulf through Pakistan's unruly Balochistan province to Sindh province.

The project is crucial for Pakistan's growing energy requirements. Iran will supply 750 million-1 billion cubic feet of gas per day by mid-2015.

The project was first mooted in 1994. It was intended to carry gas through Pakistan to India in a 1,724-mile pipeline. But India, under intense pressure from the United States, withdrew in 2009, citing disputes over prices and transit fees. There was also deep misgivings in New Delhi about dealing with its longtime foe Pakistan.

India has invested instead in nuclear power to meet its ever-rising demand for energy in its burgeoning economy. It signed a landmark deal with the United States in 2008 for nuclear equipment.

There has been no official explanation about why the Americans would allow Pakistan to go ahead and sign a pipeline agreement with Iran at a time when Washington is striving to isolate the Islamic Republic and paralyze its economy.

But the Americans cannot afford to antagonize Pakistan at a time when Washington needs Islamabad's support to fight al-Qaida and the Taliban. Pakistan is already suffering serious energy shortages with an electricity shortfall of 3,000 megawatts. These cause politically troublesome long and frequent blackouts.

The United States had been pressing for a pipeline to South Asia from gas-rich Turkmenistan in Central Asia via Afghanistan that would bypass Iran. But the security situation in Afghanistan made such a project unlikely.

India hasn't closed all doors to the project and may still rejoin. It is expected to require 146 billion cubic meters of gas per year by 2025 and its options are limited.

China, ever hungry for energy to fuel its mushrooming economy, has indicated that it might sign on and run an extension of the pipeline from Pakistan.

It may provide financial assistance to Islamabad for the project, which would provide an overland energy corridor less vulnerable to interference by the United States -- or others -- than the long tanker route from the Gulf across the Indian Ocean to the Pacific.

China is the main obstacle preventing the United States mustering the U.N. Security Council behind new sanctions on Iran. Sanctions would cut 10-12 percent of China's oil imports and jeopardize oil contracts worth hundreds of billions of dollars.

Iran desperately needs this project. Its potential in the energy sector is enormous. It has the second largest gas reserves in the world after Russia, roughly 15 percent of the world's gas supply.

But U.S.-led sanctions have prevented it from exploiting this through high-volume exports. The pipeline to Pakistan, and possibly the massive markets in India and China as well, could change all that and immunize Tehran from U.S. pressure.

The geopolitical implications of the Iran-Pakistan pipeline going through are immense. If the Americans relent, they may secure concessions from Iran and would certainly win influence in Pakistan by helping it out of a worsening energy crisis.

"By connecting itself with the world's second largest gas reserves, Pakistan would guarantee reliable supply for decades to come," says Luft, director of Washington's Institute for Analysis of Global Security, which focuses on energy security.

"If the pipeline were to be extended to India it could also be an instrument of stability in often tense Pakistan-India relations as well as a source of revenue for Islamabad through transit fees." One estimate puts that at around $600 million a year.

But, Luft concludes, "Should the worst happen and a Taliban-style regime takes over in Pakistan, the economies of the world's most radical Shiite state and that of what could be the world's most radical Sunni state would be connected to each other for decades to come, like conjoined twins."

And there's one other thing. Pakistan already has nuclear weapons and, under that scenario, Iran would, too.

Pakistan gas pipeline is Iran's lifeline - UPI.com

 

[RiazHaq]

In clear defiance of the US campaign to isolate Iran, Pakistan this week formally signed an agreement for the construction of a 560-mile, $7.5 billion gas pipeline from Iran's South Pars gas field in the Gulf through Pakistan's Balochistan province to Sindh province. The agreement with Iran came within days of America's announcement of plans to push stricter sanctions against Iran, and just days before the start of the planned US-Pakistan strategic dialog in Washington.

"By connecting itself with the world's second largest gas reserves, Pakistan would guarantee reliable supply for decades to come," U.S. energy analyst Gal Luft told UPI.

Pakistan is not alone in snubbing the world's sole superpower. Just last week, the Israelis did the same when they announced plans to build 1600 new units in occupied East Jerusalem during Vice President Joseph Biden's visit there. Subsequent denunciations of Israeli actions by the Quartet (UN, Europe, Russia and US) and angry rhetoric in Washington has only served to strengthen the Jewish state's resolve to go ahead with the settlement construction on Palestinian land.

Turkey, Brazil and China have in the past month each delivered timely snubs of Washington's push for sanctions against the Iranian regime, according to a story in the Wall Street Journal. Russia joined the list of snubbers when it surprised the U.S. delegation this week by announcing that it plans to help Iran launch its first nuclear reactor by July just as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton wrapped up her Moscow visit.

Strangely enough, a country like India which prides itself on its independence in setting foreign policy, is out of tune with the rest of the world in its decision to pull out of the Iran-Pakistan-India gap pipeline project under intense US pressure. It seems India is quite satisfied with the access to US nuclear technology in exchange for obeying Washington on Iran.

The United States no longer enjoys the kind of unchallenged superpower status it did immediately after the collapse of the Soviet Union. In spite of the fact that the US economy is still the world's largest accounting for 27% of global GDP, and its military is the most powerful with the ability to project American power around the globe, there are increasing challenges to its authority by many nations. In fact, the current US situation is best explained by its parallels to that faced by the Vito Corleone character in the classic movie "The Godfather", as described by "The Godfather Doctrine", a foreign policy parable by John Hulsman and Wes Mitchell.

It seems that the elaborate framework of international institutions that US helped architect and build after WW II, such as UN Security Council, NATO, World Bank, OECD, WTO, IMF, and IAEA, through which America exercises tremendous power and control, are being weakened partly due to America's own missteps, and my guess is that these alliances and institutions will not survive beyond the next few decades. There will be a huge realignment of nations, as the powerful new players, including China, Russia, Germany, Japan, Brazil, India, South Africa will demand greater say in the affairs of the world. So will the Iranians, the Koreans, the Turks, the Pakistanis and the Arabs. With their growing economic power, the Chinese are already starting to take steps to replace the US dollar with the Chinese yuan as a major reserve and trade currency in the world.

The US-India nuclear deal, and India's decision to abandon the IPI gas pipeline, and the growing India-US ties appear to be part of a larger realignment in Asia and the world. There is an effort by the US to "co-opt" India as a close ally in the emerging new world order.

Haq's Musings: Israel, Pakistan and Russia Defy Washington

Haq's Musings: The Godfather's Vito Corleone: A Metaphor for Uncle Sam Today?

 

[Awesome]

Again this has little to do with defiance, and more to do with fulfilling our energy needs.

 

[Creder]

most likely they got shut down straigh away for the nuke deal

and its good too, these guys had our way back in 65 only fair we dont dish em out in their time of need

 

[ameer219]

I hope Iran realises who their true friends are

 

[ejaz007]

don't go ahead with India.......... its a complete waste of time now.......... they have already wasted 4-5 years of Pakistan by resuming talks and then not participating in the meetings...........

Lets go ahead alone! and if possible China can join us now.......... india is no longer a trust worthy partner in this project and who knows if they waste another year or so and then back off once again

Incase India joins than the project becomes even more attractive than it presently is. Economic indicators shall improve as the volume of gas flowing through the line shall increase. Also Pakistan shall earn around USD 650 million a year without doing anything in the shape of royalty.

I hope you get the point.

 

[RiazHaq]

The US could offer Pakistan a civilian nuclear deal as an inducement against going ahead with the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline. However, such proposals have been rejected out of hand by the US.

But there are some US analysts, like Christine Fair, who see the benefits of such a deal. Here is how Fair put it in a recent Wall Street Journal op ed:

"Pakistan terrifies the United States because it is a unique nexus of nuclear proliferation and Islamist militancy. But with success in Afghanistan elusive, Washington needs Islamabad more than ever, and vice versa. The two countries have never been able to achieve a durable relationship based on mutual trust. That could be fixed, however, if the U.S. were willing to consider a radical new approach: a policy centered on a conditions-based civilian nuclear deal.

Nuclear cooperation could deliver results where billions of dollars of American aid have failed. Pakistan has long benefited from Washington's largess—including more than $15 billion in aid and lucrative reimbursements since 9/11—while only marginally delivering on U.S. expectations. Islamabad has refused to work against the Afghan Taliban and homegrown terror groups like Lashkar-e-Taiba, or provide Washington access to A.Q. Khan to verify that his nuclear black markets have been dismantled."

Pakistan Needs Its Own Nuclear Deal - WSJ.com

South Asia Investor Review: $100B Business at Stake in US-India Nuclear Deal