Pak High Commission Staffer held for Espionage

[ManavKalia]

It has been weak for many decades. But now there have been many unprecedented reforms, projects and programs taking place which are starting to reverse the economic situation much more quickly and effectively then had been previously anticipated. This could be further aided with relationships with powerful friendly nations. For Pakistan, this is simply the start of the beginning. Turkey is a brotherly nation of whom Pakistan shares a lot in common with. That has the power, means and willingness to help us achieve middle income nation status. Therefore our relationship with them is important from a cultural and economic standpoint.

You're getting closer to the truth but are still far away from it. Now understand, how global economics works. We have massive border disputes with China, still our trade with China dwarfs Pakistan's trade with China. Said trade being lopsided in China's favor.

Similarly we have massive border disputes with you, yet we trade with you, and it's lopsided in our favor. We are doing the same to you, that China is doing to us. Point being that in an increasingly globalised marketplace, bilateral tie up's are not going to make or break any economy.

If you have a good healthy stable and growing economy, the world will want to invest as much as possible in you. Money makes money and so on. Now China namely CPEC isn't going to transform your economy, in any game changing way neither is Turkey. What's going to transform your economy is sweeping changes which will enable transparency, security, political stability. As long as your army, continues to evade this primary responsibility, it'll not happen. You mentioned decades of economic weakness and unprecedented reforms. Care to list a few of these unprecedented reforms here?

The mindset that you have, and the way you bluntly put up everything, just goes on to show that with such confined mentality you will not learn but only make some few cheap brownie score points

Ok I'll try to use a non blunt approach with you. Can you name any of your army chiefs who took over governance from your civilian governments thru a military coup, and are today enjoying a favorable opinion in the minds of the majority of Pakistan's populace?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You're getting closer to the truth but are still far away from it. Now understand, how global economics works. We have massive border disputes with China, still our trade with China dwarfs Pakistan's trade with China. Said trade being lopsided in China's favor.

Similarly we have massive border disputes with you, yet we trade with you, and it's lopsided in our favor. We are doing the same to you, that China is doing to us. Point being that in an increasingly globalised marketplace, bilateral tie up's are not going to make or break any economy.

If you have a good healthy stable and growing economy, the world will want to invest as much as possible in you. Money makes money and so on. Now China namely CPEC isn't going to transform your economy, in any game changing way neither is Turkey. What's going to transform your economy is sweeping changes which will enable transparency, security, political stability. As long as your army, continues to evade this primary responsibility, it'll not happen. You mentioned decades of economic weakness and unprecedented reforms. Care to list a few of these unprecedented reforms here?

You're trade with China will always be much greater than ours because you are a nation that is at least 7× bigger than us. The trade between Pakistan and india is something that will eventually diminish and become inconsequential in the coming years and decades. There is no future there whatsoever.

The reforms and programs you outlined above are something that need to be done, are being done. But long term our economic, strategic and cultural future lies with China and the nations West of us (particularly Turkey) of whom we share the most in common with. Pakistan needs to think long term.

 

[ManavKalia]

You're trade with China will always be much greater than ours because you are a nation that is at least 7× bigger than us. The trade between Pakistan and india is something that will eventually diminish and become inconsequential in the coming years and decades. There is no future there whatsoever.

The reforms and programs you outlined above are something that need to be done, are being done. But long term our economic, strategic and cultural future lies with China and the nations West of us (particularly Turkey) of whom we share the most in common with. Pakistan needs to think long term.

If your thought process is representative of the thought process of the shot callers, then God help your economy. Cultural relationships have an absolutely zero link with bilateral trade.

The nation you're culturally closest to will always be India, and vice versa. That notwithstanding India Pakistan trade will always remain substantial, though it'll never reach it's full potential because of cross border tensions. Your politicians have too much money invested in and sourced from Indian entities. They will not allow what you're stating.

 

[salarsikander]

Ok I'll try to use a non blunt approach with you. Can you name any of your army chiefs who took over governance from your civilian governments thru a military coup, and are today enjoying a favorable opinion in the minds of the majority of Pakistan's populace?

Yes, Sure are.

 

[ManavKalia]

Yes, Sure are.

Name them please.

 

[salarsikander]

Name them please.

Musharraf.

 

[ManavKalia]

Musharraf.

He enjoys a favorable opinion with the majority of Pakistan's population currently?

 

[salarsikander]

He enjoys a favorable opinion with the majority of Pakistan's population currently?

No one enjoys a MAJORITY of anything in a democratic country. But Yes he is favoured by certain class of society

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

If your thought process is representative of the thought process of the shot callers, then God help your economy. Cultural relationships have an absolutely zero link with bilateral trade.

The nation you're culturally closest to will always be India, and vice versa. That notwithstanding India Pakistan trade will always remain substantial, though it'll never reach it's full potential because of cross border tensions. Your politicians have too much money invested in and sourced from Indian entities. They will not allow what you're stating.

Not particularly. The Europeans always prefer to trade more amongst eachother due to shared heritage and religion. That explains the dynamics of the EU. Brexit has slowed this down slightly though.

Trade with india is a dying thing. There maybe individuals with vested interests but everything else is heavily shifting in favour of China and the nations West of us. This strategic shifts trumps anything any individual may do. These types usually have similar interests elsewhere in the globe. Doesn't mean the Pakistani state will somehow connect to them.

Apart form probably less than 2.5% of india's population, we have nothing in common whatsoever with india or indian people. That is a myth and huge lie perpetuated by certain media outlets. Apart from the possibility of war, there is nothing else that relates Pakistan and India.

 

[ManavKalia]

Not particularly. The Europeans always prefer to trade more amongst eachother due to shared heritage and religion. That explains the dynamics of the EU. Brexit has slowed this down slightly though.

Trade with india is a dying thing. There maybe individuals with vested interests but everything else is heavily shifting in favour of China and the nations West of us. This strategic shifts trumps anything any individual may do. These types usually have similar interests elsewhere in the globe. Doesn't mean the Pakistani state will somehow connect to them.

Apart form probably less than 2.5% of india's population, we have nothing in common whatsoever with india or indian people. That is a myth and huge lie perpetuated by certain media outlets. Apart from the possibility of war, there is nothing else that relates Pakistan and India.

If that is a myth and a huge lie, how do you explain Pakistan being Bollywood's biggest overseas market globally?

You're not the biggest overseas market for Chinese cinema or Turkish cinema.

No one enjoys a MAJORITY of anything in a democratic country. But Yes he is favoured by certain class of society

Would more Pakistani people have an unfavorable impression of him, or a favorable impression?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

If that is a myth and a huge lie, how do you explain Pakistan being Bollywood's biggest overseas market globally?

You're not the biggest overseas market for Chinese cinema or Turkish cinema.



Would more Pakistani people have an unfavorable impression of him, or a favorable impression?

Watching bollywood films as a past time does not make you indian or being culturally similar to indians. If a German person decided to watch an indian film would he/she immediately turn into an indian or become a cultured indian? I am a fan of Star Wars but that doesn't make me an American.

Turkish dramas are becoming popular in Pakistan. Now even their films are. Chinese films and dramas are not popular in Pakistan however.

Regardless of what anyone says or does, the pertinent fact remains that Pakistan is massively shifting towards China and the nations West of us particularly Turkey.Our future is there aswell as our own territory. Nowhere else.

 

[ManavKalia]

Watching bollywood films as a past time does not make you indian or being culturally similar to indians. If a German person decided to watch an indian film would he/she immediately turn into an indian or become a cultured indian? I am a fan of Star Wars but that doesn't make me an American.

Turkish dramas are becoming popular in Pakistan. Now even their films are. Chinese films and dramas are not popular in Pakistan however.

Regardless of what anyone says or does, the pertinent fact remains that Pakistan is massively shifting towards China and the nations West of us particularly Turkey.Our future is there aswell as our own territory. Nowhere else.

Again culture and trade is different.

What's the first milestone of culture? Language. You do realise that your national language, has come from India?

And that Bollywood has a much larger fan base in Pakistan than Hollywood does. So much so that after the ban on Indian movies, your theatres are going near empty.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Again culture and trade is different.

What's the first milestone of culture? Language. You do realise that your national language, has come from India?

And that Bollywood has a much larger fan base in Pakistan than Hollywood does. So much so that after the ban on Indian movies, your theatres are going near empty.

Not necessarily. That has often been said but quite commonly disproved. For example, All the South American nations speak Spanish or Portugueae but a true ethnic Spanish person will feel that they have more in common with a White European person than with any Latin American (Unless they too are white). I myself was born and raised in the UK and speak English as a first language yet I don't feel English myself. The people I feel most connection with, feel comfortable and have a lot in common with are other Muslims particularly those from the Middle East and North Africa.

Pakistani cinemas losing revenue is no indicator of culture & heritage. It's like saying Russian advanced weapons systems development is dependent on how many Russians buy Kellogs Cornflakes.

Culture is based in many things including language but is primarily based on race, heritage, beliefs and religion.

 

[salarsikander]

Would more Pakistani people have an unfavorable impression of him, or a favorable impression

as compared to ?

 

[ManavKalia]

Not necessarily. That has often been said but quite commonly disproved. For example, All the South American nations speak Spanish or Portugueae but a true ethnic Spanish person will feel that they have more in common with a White European person than with any Latin American (Unless they too are white). I myself was born and raised in the UK and speak English as a first language yet I don't feel English myself. The people I feel most connection with, feel comfortable and have a lot in common with are other Muslims particularly those from the Middle East and North Africa.

Pakistani cinemas losing revenue is no indicator of culture & heritage. It's like saying Russian advanced weapons systems development is dependent on how many Russians buy Kellogs Cornflakes.

Culture is based in many things including language but is primarily based on race, heritage, beliefs and religion.

I'm not talking about you per se. A Pakistani born and brought up in a western country cannot be compared to a Pakistani born and brought up in Pakistan at all, in terms of culture or mindset.

I've spent a number of years living in the U.S. I've made a few trips to the UK. I know a lot of Pakistanis personally. I'm distantly related to some. You're one of those south Asians who is basically what we call foreign born confused Desi. As in you don't fit in with whites. You don't fit in with your home country's native inhabitants. You don't fit in with what we call a fresh of the boat Desi. Basically I know your type, I've lived with your type, and you like many others in the same boat as you, suffer from what is known as an cultural identity crisis, stemming from confusion about your roots.

https://defence.pk/threads/aib-when-india-spoke-to-pakistan.458667/page-2#post-8865118

Check out this thread and the video there. You'll understand what I'm talking about.

as compared to ?

Is the number of Pakistanis who have a favorable opinion of musharraf more than the number of Pakistanis who have an unfavorable opinion of him?