PAK-FA vs J-XX

[Omega007]

This two birds of pray can't be compared performance wise simply because J 20 is a bomber,not an air superiority fighter and PAK FA will be a multirole air superiority fighter.So PAKFA will definately have advantage in air combat.Pakistani and chinese members here complains about the straight engine air intakes and the underbelly of PAKFA.But they deliberately forget that the PAKFA tds are not fitted with the internal weapon bays,the YF 23 also had angled belly but still was stealthier than F 22,and it is not necessary to have s shaped air intakes to shield the engine fanblades from radar waves;radar absorbing composite mess can do the job with same efficiency at a much reduced cost and shaping.Example-the Silent Eagles achived same degree of frontal stealth as JSF by that technique.
Meanwhile,the members also praise and claims superiority of J20 because their DSI inlets.Though DSI reduces rcs but also seriously hampers the aerodynamic performance of the fighter.DSI fighters can't fly at greater speed of mach2 and can't turn more than 9g turns.Moreover J 20 has big canards and there are no better ways to sacrify stealth than adding canards on a frame.But PAKFA will definately achieve much greater agility
with 3d tvc and the LERX without increasing rcs.Besides the J 20 will be under powered because it is a much bigger and heavier platform than PAKFA but will use engines with same power output.So in air combat J20 will be definately in disadvantage against PAKFA.
REGARDS....

 

[ptldM3]

Engine: They work but they have very short service life. China may not have mass equipped turbofans yet, but they have managed to make the service life of the AL-31 longer. This achievement is no low tech, Russia couldn't extend the service life of their own turbofans but China can, something to think about. Evidence of copying AL-31 please. Influence and design assistance, no doubt, but copying...nope.

The only way to increase the times between engine overhauls without major modifications would be to de-tune them by allowing the engine to operate at cooler temperatures--de-tuning an engine is nothing magnificent and nothing the engine manufacturers in Russia did not know about. If you are implying that China actually did major modifications on the AL-31 than I must say you are too generous. If China was able to make meaningful breakthroughs in engine life and overhauls than why do they continue to order engines from Russia?


And yes Russia can extend the life of their engines, the older AL-31's are primative compared to the 117S.

Radar/Avionics: I disagree completely. Russian flankers were still using old analogue cockpits while China had digital cockpits. Mi-17 sold to China were analogues which China replaced with digital. China is ahead in radar/avionics.

Since when did liquid crystal monitors have anything to do with avionics as in, radars, ECM's, data-link, mission computers ect?


I also do hope you know the JF-17's radar was developed with the help of a Russia company and that China still uses and continues to import ship born radars/airborne anti-submarine helicopters.

 

[Omega007]

The only way to increase the times between engine overhauls without major modifications would be to de-tune them by allowing the engine to operate at cooler temperatures--de-tuning an engine is nothing magnificent and nothing the engine manufacturers in Russia did not know about. If you are implying that China actually did major modifications on the AL-31 than I must say you are too generous. If China was able to make meaningful breakthroughs in engine life and overhauls than why do they continue to order engines from Russia?


And yes Russia can extend the life of their engines, the older AL-31's are primative compared to the 117S.





Since when did liquid crystal monitors have anything to do with avionics as in, radars, ECM's, data-link, mission computers ect?


I also do hope you know the JF-17's radar was developed with the help of a Russia company and that China still uses and continues to import ship born radars/airborne anti-submarine helicopters.

Forget him,he does not know what he talking.Besides,what is the point of comparing a bomber with a air superiority fighter?The fighter will win 9 out of 10 engagements.Besides our Sword Fish mk1 GaN AESAs can track a cricket ball sized metal object from 600 km distance and by the time J 20 will enter service our Sword Fish mk2 will be deployed with a tracking range of 1600 km,so no need to worry.
REGARDS....

 

[HKSDU]

The only way to increase the times between engine overhauls without major modifications would be to de-tune them by allowing the engine to operate at cooler temperatures--de-tuning an engine is nothing magnificent and nothing the engine manufacturers in Russia did not know about. If you are implying that China actually did major modifications on the AL-31 than I must say you are too generous. If China was able to make meaningful breakthroughs in engine life and overhauls than why do they continue to order engines from Russia?


And yes Russia can extend the life of their engines, the older AL-31's are primative compared to the 117S.





Since when did liquid crystal monitors have anything to do with avionics as in, radars, ECM's, data-link, mission computers ect?


I also do hope you know the JF-17's radar was developed with the help of a Russia company and that China still uses and continues to import ship born radars/airborne anti-submarine helicopters.

So what is China going to do with its new airframe of J-10, share the existing turbofan. If China builds more J-10 they will need more engines to run them. So what if China imports this certain equipment means, oh they can't make anything or we must be superior than them in every aspect.

Its funny how I don't follow some of the posters view and you guys get all nationalistic. If I don't bad mouth China than some of you get all angry.

Forget him,he does not know what he talking.Besides,what is the point of comparing a bomber with a air superiority fighter?The fighter will win 9 out of 10 engagements.Besides our Sword Fish mk1 GaN AESAs can track a cricket ball sized metal object from 600 km distance and by the time J 20 will enter service our Sword Fish mk2 will be deployed with a tracking range of 1600 km,so no need to worry.
REGARDS....

Why cause I don't support your views or China basher makes me don't know what I'm talking about? Tracking range 1600km, wow no need for AWACS then.

 

[Omega007]

So what is China going to do with its new airframe of J-10, share the existing turbofan. If China builds more J-10 they will need more engines to run them. So what if China imports this certain equipment means, oh they can't make anything or we must be superior than them in every aspect.

Its funny how I don't follow some of the posters view and you guys get all nationalistic. If I don't bad mouth China than some of you get all angry.




Why cause I don't support your views or China basher makes me don't know what I'm talking about? Tracking range 1600km, wow no need for AWACS then.

Who is angry with you mate?No one.And we don't bash china.It's a fact that J 20 is being developed as a heavy strike fighter and PAKFA as a multirole air superiority fighter.It is as simple as that.
And regarding the Sword fish mk2 AESA it was claimed by LRDE scientists who developed thd mk1,not I claimed.This kind of radar exist,infact US has developed 4500 km range radar.

 

[koushik]

[/QUOTE]Tracking range 1600km, wow no need for AWACS then.[/QUOTE]

my friend the Swordfish AESA LRTR is a long range Multi Functional Radar which is the integral part of the Indian BMD system.
Swordfish mk1 has 600km range and will be used with the Phase-1 of the Indian BMD.
Swordfish Mk2 with a 1600km range will be used with the Phase-2 of the Indian BMD.

 

[DacterSaab]

request to moderators plz close this thread it's a waste of space.

 

[rcrmj]

So what is China going to do with its new airframe of J-10, share the existing turbofan. If China builds more J-10 they will need more engines to run them. So what if China imports this certain equipment means, oh they can't make anything or we must be superior than them in every aspect.

Its funny how I don't follow some of the posters view and you guys get all nationalistic. If I don't bad mouth China than some of you get all angry.




Why cause I don't support your views or China basher makes me don't know what I'm talking about? Tracking range 1600km, wow no need for AWACS then.

you are wasting time here friend``they always like to argue on assumption, especially a paper plane with existing one`

some people just faild to understand that there are few different types of engine used in any air force``but if chinese buying engines from russia to equitp one or two chinese jets`` it means chinese cannot produce engine hence russia is superior in every aspect to china`

they always faild to realise, playing cat-up in modern techs is not having a formular-1 racing which only happends in blink of time``but it will take decade to do so``

china started developing its own turbofan in late 70s with zero ground, and now we are nearly coming to the break through point, in many aspects of furbofan engine china is already ahead of russia but the biggest short coming is the production of fan blade in large quantity with consistant quality standard.

current import of Al-31 is stated very clear by the source is to equipt on new J-10As and spare parts for the ones already in service, the reason it didnt go with WS-10 is that these two engines are completely different from size, weight and control system, in order to fit in J-10 a re-design of fuslage is inevitable...however those simpletons dont know its more complicated than putting extra kits on a car`

 

[Chengduman]

There are chances of J-XX being on par with PAKFA but definitely not better......

You say JB without a Real fighter

 

[HKSDU]

Who is angry with you mate?No one.And we don't bash china.It's a fact that J 20 is being developed as a heavy strike fighter and PAKFA as a multirole air superiority fighter.It is as simple as that.
And regarding the Sword fish mk2 AESA it was claimed by LRDE scientists who developed thd mk1,not I claimed.This kind of radar exist,infact US has developed 4500 km range radar.

read your previous post directed to me.

Every time I don't agree with some of you guys, you all get nationalistic. Russia is indeed powerful but it no longer holds superiority over every aspect of the field anymore. Russian turbofan have shorter life span than the American counterparts. India and China know about the shorter lifespan on Russian turbofans, China noticed it and extended the service life. China purchases turbofan to supplement their new constructed fighters, cause at the moment their WS-10 has only recently entered production. And the problem with it is that they cannot make enough of them with the consistent quality, they can make small batches with high quality but not enough to fill the orders of the J-10 and J-11. They need to power their new manufactured J-10 and J-11, replace the ones already in service J-10, J-11, Su-27, Su-30. Lot of aircrafts but not enough being produced.

Let them enter service first before comparing please. Its like arguing how advance the LCA or F-35 is when they aren't in service yet, or still on the drawing board.

 

[IND151]

too many threads on this subject

 

[Ghoster]

too many threads on this subject

Nice avatar IND151.

What is that munition?? Looks like it has pin-point accuracy.