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How would PAK-FA counter F22 in future aerial warfare

Guys, I recently read a fair amount of material on detection of stealth. The stealth are no more going to remain stealth in coming few years. So scenario shall be totally different in coming few years. What ever we discuss, we should discuss keeping future trend of technologies in mind.

I have read some where that F 22 was designed for stealth mainly by ground radar. It is not very stealth for areal radar. So if that is true, PAKFA will score over F22.
 
PAKFA would score over F-22 because of better Radar, More No. of Missiles and Better Maneuverability.

The slight advantage which F-22 has in radar cross sectional area will be reduced progressively as PAKFA develops.

So PAKFA by conceding little ground in radar cross section, is leaving F-22 behind in many other critical aspects.

Slight advantage of radar cross section will not be enough to save F-22 from PAKFA.

I would give a score of 7 to 4 kills in favour of PAKFA versus F-22.
 
It's all good with the lengthy analysis and appreciated. But in essence the answer lies simply in the different doctrines used by the two blocs in aircraft design. For eg, The West has always looked for killing without being seen since the 60;s, keeping out of danger.However, with missile technology not living up to its hype in the early years this was not possible. So they found themselves faced with agile east bloc aircraft for which they had to develop tactics and then eventually fighters to counter them. Then again, they took the upper hand until the current generation of Russian jets emerged. However, by this time electronics and missiles systems had matured enough to give them the edge in these long range combat scenario's. The Israeli's for eg, understand that command of the electronic spectrum is much more important rather than extreme dogfights. Their approach to modern air combat is possible one of the best. Using a combination of advanced electronics, high off boresight missiles and BVR they maintain their edge against any possible adversary. The Russians picked this up in the early 80's when they realized they could not match the US pound for pound in command of the electronic spectrum, but they could inflict damage by forcing themselves into a close fight and then using high off boresight missiles to get a kill and offset superior training and tactics. That philosophy survives to this day. The PAK-FA is possibly never going to be as stealthy as the F-35 or F-22. but its designed to be invisible long enough so that it can come charging in and then engage in the close fight.

However, the Americans have moved further ahead with the F-35. They realize that strike fighters will be hunted by threats such as the PAK-FA and Su-35. So the only way past them is to be able to "out-sensor" them. To see them first, to have all of them see the enemy first. And use superior information processing to create a faster and better strategy to kill them. The F-35 with its EOTS allows the pilot to engage and kill with his head alone. It is well shielded enough in the IR and Electronic spectrum so that it may survive any initial attacks. Perhaps in the concept of David and Goliath.. it does not look to match enemy aircraft pound for pound..or dagger for dagger.. it looks to strike the death blow first. Which is why it is still a better aircraft than the PAK-FA despite the latter being much more impressive in aerodynamic performance on paper. With the F-22 though, the PAK-FA may very well face slaughter on a 1 for 1 numbers engagement.

However, the PAK-FA's enemies aren't the F-35 and F-22. Its the export enemy..the J-10, the J-11..the F-16 and so on. It is designed to beat those fighters at their game with an easy margin. I dont see the FGFA as being any better than the MKI is to the Su-30K canard demonstrator. i.e it is still limited by the basic airframe and design and hence wont be much more stealthier or more manoeuvrable.However, it will have the advantage in electronics.. and it will be interesting to see how those will stack up to what is in the J-20 or J-31. It's main prey however, will be J-10's, J-11's,JF-17's and F-16s for quite a while.

The bold part will fit the Americans best. THEY have 178 F-22s but what will happen to the 'alleys' who buy only F-35.?

Even Americans who will fight war away or from the CBGs (without F-22 support) will have to face those Su-30/35s or PAK FAs.

They have to make either F-35 more like a A2A fighter. Even F-35 will be there in huge numbers, the passive technology to detect is way ahead too as mentioned by OP.
 
how will pak-fa defeat f-22???

well lets see....... BY KICKING ITS ***!!!! thats how:omghaha:

u guys r making a god of f-22 just because its us made.....
take it easy remember the most "stealth" plane of the world the rq-170
was brought down like tweety bird...

just dont take them too much serious
 
how will pak-fa defeat f-22???

well lets see....... BY KICKING ITS ***!!!! thats how:omghaha:

u guys r making a god of f-22 just because its us made.....
take it easy remember the most "stealth" plane of the world the rq-170
was brought down like tweety bird...

just dont take them too much serious

Wow
this is amazing
i wonder how our iranian friends do this they can take down stealth plane that without having a scratch on that plane even if plane may be flying high in the air :lol:

Hmm so the Russians should take notice of this
 
Wow
this is amazing
i wonder how our iranian friends do this they can take down stealth plane that without having a scratch on that plane even if plane may be flying high in the air :lol:

Hmm so the Russians should take notice of this

how we do it?
well we believe in our selves , we also believe in our neighbors !!!!:kiss3:
i love indian culture and nice friendly people:yahoo:

believe me iam no flattering u guys but u r capable of defending yourself against the world...
i say again this is my belief im not flattering u

ctually russian offer to learn from them...
@indian_foxhound: thats very nice of u to say:smitten:
 
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how we do it?
well we believe in our selves , we also believe in our neighbors !!!!:kiss3:
i love indian culture and nice friendly people:yahoo:

believe me iam no flattering u guys but u r capable of defending yourself against the world...
i say again this is my belief im not flattering u

Well

thanks for such nice words about india & indians

we also do the same for IRAN & Iranian people

but dude this is a military thread not any US Vs any other country thread .

REGARDS
 
Geeeezzz...This again...???

Just like the rest, the PAK/FGFA have no chance against the Raptor.

Fine...I will be generous: 1% chance.

By the way, people...

The Dino Pit Fossils: Quetzalcoatlus northropi

The 'northropi' is for -- Northrop. Maker of the B-2.

If one Raptor is faced with 2 Pak-FAs then I think the odds favour the PAK-FA. The Raptor is a good aircraft but still man made. If it detects the PAK-FA even 40 Kms away it is more than enough for the Pak-FA.
 
If one Raptor is faced with 2 Pak-FAs then I think the odds favour the PAK-FA. The Raptor is a good aircraft but still man made. If it detects the PAK-FA even 40 Kms away it is more than enough for the Pak-FA.
If it is one Raptor against two PAKs, the PAKs will be dead -- AT THE SAME TIME.

Fine...May be just 1 millisecond apart. I will concede there are variations in AMRAAM speed. :lol:
 
If it is one Raptor against two PAKs, the PAKs will be dead -- AT THE SAME TIME.

Fine...May be just 1 millisecond apart. I will concede there are variations in AMRAAM speed. :lol:

So you mean to say that the F22 Raptor is God sent? Nope...this is where you are mistaken. The R 74 has a IRST tracking range of 50 Kms as stated by Vympel. So I guess both of them will be firing the missile at the same time. Seems like the Pak-FA will be firing more missiles than the Americans. And please dont say that Americans have better countermeasures as even you being a pilot have not faced a real VVS aircraft in a real fight.

Technology has advanced on both sides of the world. We still dont know if the TIIkhmorov radar has the same LPI features of the AN/APG 79 radar.
 
PAKFA would score over F-22 because of better Radar, More No. of Missiles and Better Maneuverability.

The slight advantage which F-22 has in radar cross sectional area will be reduced progressively as PAKFA develops.

So PAKFA by conceding little ground in radar cross section, is leaving F-22 behind in many other critical aspects.

Slight advantage of radar cross section will not be enough to save F-22 from PAKFA.

I would give a score of 7 to 4 kills in favour of PAKFA versus F-22.

F-22 would still be able to detect PAKFA, fire the missile and shoot down PAKFA before it realized that it had been shot.
 
If one Raptor is faced with 2 Pak-FAs then I think the odds favour the PAK-FA. The Raptor is a good aircraft but still man made. If it detects the PAK-FA even 40 Kms away it is more than enough for the Pak-FA.

A raptor would never allow a PAKFA to be within 40 KM. It would either shoot it down earlier. If it can't shoot it down, its because it has used up all the missiles and the raptor would turn around and go home.
 

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